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 Not starting again.

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deekster_caddy
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PostSubject: Re: Not starting again.   Fri Oct 31, 2008 2:33 pm

Jack the R wrote:
Alright, I'm going to find me a shiny new penny and tape it on top of the battery.

The problem turned out to be the tarnish or patina that had built up on the terminals. I hit 'em all with a wire brush attachment on the dremel and then the Riv fired up strong.

I was surprised at how much even the terminals on the Optima had tarnished over 2 years.

BTW I've never seen a sign of moisture in the battery area - this is all the work of the O2 molecule.


Tape will prevent the air from circulating near the penny, which is what it needs for this little trick to work. I don't think there are many good locations on the Optimas, they are pretty smooth externally IIRC. Don't know where to tell you to put it...

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PostSubject: Re: Not starting again.   Fri Oct 31, 2008 3:10 pm

You can delay corrosion on the terminals by making a paste of baking soda and vaseline. Start with a teaspoon of dry baking soda in a paper cup; add vaseline until the mixture is spreadable (consistency of peanut butter). You can add a drop of (red or blue) food color if you want, after you get teh mixture the consistency you want (again, about like peanut butter). It will be difficult to mix, be patient.

Anyway, before you reassemble terminals spread a very thin layer of this goo on the terminals (AFTER you clean them with battery brush or what have you). Connect the terminals and then spread a somewhat thicker layer of the goo over the connections. I have done this on cars and my garden tractor for years. I think it is important NOT to get it on thick before you assemble the connections.

Albertj
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Jack the R
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PostSubject: Re: Not starting again.   Fri Oct 31, 2008 5:14 pm

deekster_caddy - I left half the penny exposed.

albertj - I'm going to look for some of that dielectric grease mentioned earlier. I think I've got some already but who knows where I put it.
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PostSubject: Re: Not starting again.   Fri Oct 31, 2008 7:22 pm

The 'tune up grease' or 'spark plug lubricant' that AutoZone sells for 99c/pack by the registers is dielectric gresse. Basically, it's all dimethylpolysiloxane, with different minor additives. For instance, the folks who are selling it as brake lube add their own (different) fluorescent dyes so you can look at it with a UV light and figure out whose it was (for instance this helps in accident investigations).

I've used the vaseline/baking soda paste (per the recipe I shared) for 15 years and am quite happy with it, I'd use it before I'd use dielectric grease. Be advised though, it does not keep - mix just enough to use for the job at hand. It will stiffen. Which helps you on battery terminals (does not come off too easy) but if you think you want to mix a mess of the stuff and keep it a while think again.

Albertj
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Jack the R
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PostSubject: Re: Not starting again.   Fri Jul 17, 2009 2:36 pm

Back in this same situation again!!

It's time for that damn side connect postiive terminal to go!

There is plenty of room to use the top terminals. I can't think of any reason why I can't splice on a traditional connector, but I'll ask you guys first just to be sure.
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deekster_caddy
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PostSubject: Re: Not starting again.   Fri Jul 17, 2009 2:57 pm

Hmm, I've been using side terminals on almost every car I've owned - starting with my '73 Buick LeSabre, right on through every other GM I have. No trouble with side terminals except one - once somebody else cross-threaded the terminal bolt on me.

There shouldn't be any corrosion there, if so you've got a big problem - battery vapors under the seat. You need to make sure your vent is clean and functional!!!

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woggy
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PostSubject: Re: Not starting again.   Fri Jul 17, 2009 3:03 pm

you may want to try converting the side terminals to top posts, you can get lead terminals at any auto parts, the will screw into the threads of the battery thus converting them to the top post style. (I think they are called charging posts) You then have to replace you cable ends with the top post clamp terminals.
Ive done this to a few different vehicles with no problems.

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PostSubject: Re: Not starting again.   Fri Jul 17, 2009 3:07 pm

I would be very concerned about using top posts back there - you have to be concerned about someone sitting on the seat, no? Plus you need a battery with a proper vent, and that means the group # for our car, which is a side post. Anything that doesn't hook up to our vent will allow battery acid fumes in that whole compartment causing more corrosion issues and possibly more danger than you want inside your car. It MUST be vented!!!

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Jack the R
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PostSubject: Re: Not starting again.   Fri Jul 17, 2009 3:54 pm

I'm using an Optima. It doesn't need to be vented. It has top posts in addition to the side mount terminals.

I think the problem is the copper contact in the positive lead. Copper is going to tarnish, there's no way around it. I've cleaned it again and that fixed the problem again, for now. I'm obviously going to have this problem every few months unless I get that copper out of there.
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PostSubject: Re: Not starting again.   Fri Jul 17, 2009 3:59 pm

If there is a concern about top posts touching any part of the seat once installed, you can get the adapters that screw into the side terminals, cut the ends of your cables and put regular post type terminal ends on and attach to the side of battery.
That's what woggy was talking about in the above post.
That will get rid of your copper issue.

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PostSubject: Re: Not starting again.   Fri Jul 17, 2009 4:02 pm

Oh, that makes sense. Same battery but with side-to-top post adapters and redo the cable ends. Got it.

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'98 Buick Riviera; Gen V 3.25 pulley, N*, VS Cam, 180 stat, Custom PCM (Powrtuner), headers & HF cat , 42.5 lb inj.

Grant-built/PRJ/Thrasher trans 3.29 gears, 7/8 chain, zzp hardened IS

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PostSubject: Re: Not starting again.   Fri Jul 17, 2009 4:47 pm

I don't think the top posts will touch the bottom of the seat, but remember, the Optima comes with top posts on it. If they're going to touch the seat frame, wouldn't they already be doing it? Granted I haven't had a 300 lber in the back.

The bottom of the seat is fiberglass anyway, how would it conduct electricity?
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PostSubject: Re: Not starting again.   Fri Jul 17, 2009 4:52 pm

Depending on the length of your cables you may need to use the side posts anyway.

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PostSubject: Re: Not starting again.   Fri Jul 17, 2009 6:57 pm

Hey Jack I've been thinking about your problem - it might NOT be the battery.

Please check the ground line from the starter to the frame.

If you have never checked-cleaned it I bet it's corroded bad.

IF so I suggest you make a replacement out of a stainless steel bolt. Drill out the old ground post (it will probably break when you attempt to disassemble and clean it to remove the ground cable that runs to it from the starter), use a tap to tap threads for a new SS bolt, not big oversize just one size up. IIRC a #8, about 2" or 2.5" long will do. . Get a couple nuts (one plain one locking) for the new bolt. Cut off head of new bolt; thread it into the frame where you tapped out the old ground - it is now a stud; screw the nonlocking bolt down on the stud (lock washer optional) until it binds up against the frame - wha-la you now have a new ground post. Clean off the starter terminal with a wire bruch and smear a little dielectric grease on it to slow down corrosion - then put the starter terminal on the stud and bolt the nonlocking bolt down over the terminal. Congratulate yourself.

Point is if the starter ground connection is not good things won't work right no matter how much you work the battery. I learned this the hard way a while back and installed a stainless ground stud on my riv so I would not have to think about the problem anymore.

Albertj

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Jack the R
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PostSubject: Re: Not starting again.   Fri Jul 17, 2009 7:41 pm

I've fixed the problem, it was the corrosion on the positive cable.

Good thinking though.
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