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| | | Write-Up: Flushing Radiator Coolant | |
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Rickw Addict
Name: Rick Location: Lancaster, MA Joined: 2008-09-13 Post Count: 2694 Contribution: 3724 Integrity: 31
 | Subject: Re: Write-Up: Flushing Radiator Coolant Tue Oct 20, 2009 7:13 pm | |
| Forget the floating balls. Read the manufactures recommendations on proper mixture of anti-freeze and H2O. 50/50 provides the highest boiling point and the lowest freezing temp. _________________ 98 Riv, 102K Miles, EBC, LS1 Ft.Calipers, STB, Addco Rr Sway Bar, 180* stat., SSAC Headers, HF Cat, 1.9's, 105# springs, MPS 3.4, DHP tuned by the Deekster.
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|  | | LARRY70GS Member
Name: Larry Age: 53 Location: Oakland Gardens, NY Joined: 2007-01-23 Post Count: 122 Contribution: 1337 Integrity: 13
 | Subject: Re: Write-Up: Flushing Radiator Coolant Tue Oct 20, 2009 7:28 pm | |
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|  | | AA Administrator

Name: Aaron Age: 32 Location: C-bus, Ohio Joined: 2007-01-14 Post Count: 9474 Contribution: 3477 Integrity: 39
 | Subject: Re: Write-Up: Flushing Radiator Coolant Wed Oct 21, 2009 1:37 pm | |
| If you dig around, some sources show that using straight antifreeze (or less than 30% water) lets the coolant freeze (or gel) easier than using a mix.  Both the green stuff and orange Dexron III coolant are ethylene glycol type antifreeze. From Larry's link: "As the name implies the third main function of antifreeze is to protect the cooling system from freezing. The way to achieve maximum freeze protection differs between ethylene and propylene glycol. For ethylene glycol the maximum protection is at 67% ethylene glycol in water. A ethylene glycol solution of this concentration will freeze at -84° F (pure ethylene glycol freezes at 8° F)."_________________  |
|  | | ibmoses Addict

Name: Bert Location: North Alabama Joined: 2008-02-03 Post Count: 1486 Contribution: 4183 Integrity: 22
 | Subject: Re: Write-Up: Flushing Radiator Coolant Thu Oct 22, 2009 6:05 am | |
| There are numerous opinions about what anti freeze should be used to replace the antifreeze in your 95-99 Riviera. Below is a link to a thread that contains many of those opinions and a great amount of information regarding Dex cool and the traditional "green" antifreeze as well as the "mixes with anything" antifreeze that is also available: http://rivperformance.editboard.com/care-maintenance-f8/gm-dexcool-coolant-antifreeze-t1364.htm?highlight=dexcoolPersonally I buy the Dex cool concentrate and mix 50/50 with distilled water and use this mixture in our 99 Riviera. Bert  _________________ 99 Riviera(on the left) "Cruising Missile" Midnight Blue Pearl 90,000 miles GuttedAirBox  70GS455(on the right) Diplomat Blue "Howitzer with windshield wipers" |
|  | | Sweepspear Member

Name: Dale Age: 48 Location: Minneapolis, MN Joined: 2008-11-04 Post Count: 185 Contribution: 491 Integrity: 0
 | Subject: Re: Write-Up: Flushing Radiator Coolant Thu Oct 22, 2009 3:53 pm | |
| When I have used a chemical cleaner when flushing, after I drain it out of the car I like to do another run with just water in the system to be sure I have it sufficiently rinsed out and neutralized. I always get more gunk with that second run. Then after I drain that, I add my fresh new coolant. I also mix the coolant closer to maybe 60 or 70% since there will still be a certain amount of plain water in the block yet. I figure once it all gets mixed together in the engine I am then closer to a 50% mix. _________________ DaleGutted box. 180* Stat. 104 plugs. Current Rivieras. 1970, 1996 SC. Long lost Rivieras. 1966 GS clone, 1970, 1990.  |
|  | | Rickw Addict
Name: Rick Location: Lancaster, MA Joined: 2008-09-13 Post Count: 2694 Contribution: 3724 Integrity: 31
 | Subject: Re: Write-Up: Flushing Radiator Coolant Thu Oct 22, 2009 3:58 pm | |
| | AA wrote: | | Both the green stuff and orange Dexron III coolant are ethylene glycol type antifreeze. |
I was under the impression that DexCool (Orange) was Propylene Glycol, which is the supposed culprit in the LIM gasket failure. Or am I incorrect on this.???? I guess I need to do some research as I can't remember anymore. I used to know.....Duh.....Getting old SUCKS. Can't remember shit. _________________ 98 Riv, 102K Miles, EBC, LS1 Ft.Calipers, STB, Addco Rr Sway Bar, 180* stat., SSAC Headers, HF Cat, 1.9's, 105# springs, MPS 3.4, DHP tuned by the Deekster.
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|  | | AA Administrator

Name: Aaron Age: 32 Location: C-bus, Ohio Joined: 2007-01-14 Post Count: 9474 Contribution: 3477 Integrity: 39
 | |  | | Eldo Member

Name: Mark Location: The "other" side of the Golden Gate. Joined: 2009-04-10 Post Count: 423 Contribution: 848 Integrity: 25
 | Subject: Re: Write-Up: Flushing Radiator Coolant Thu Oct 22, 2009 6:04 pm | |
| | Rickw wrote: | | AA wrote: | | Both the green stuff and orange Dexron III coolant are ethylene glycol type antifreeze. |
I was under the impression that DexCool (Orange) was Propylene Glycol, which is the supposed culprit in the LIM gasket failure. . |
You're right, everything after 35 is straight downhill! Thank God for the internet, so I can re-learn everything I've forgotten...
The bad stuff in Dex-Cool is OAT, organic acid technology, which replaced the 'green' silicates. Besides long life, it was also supposed to be better for aluminum engines, at least until the green stuff got reformulated yet again. If I had a Northstar or a Shortstar, I'd probably use it. But since our engines are good ol' cast iron, and I hate changing gaskets, water pumps, etc, I converted to green upon the recommendation of my brother, who's been doing it for a lot of his customers at the shop...
This is a good page, and there is a good OAT link in the 3rd paragraph - HOAT is also mentioned, the Hybrid "mixes with anything" stuff. Be sure to click on the Ford "anti-OAT" sticker at the lower left corner of the page:
http://sancarlosradiator.com/dex-cool.htm _________________ 97 Riviera L67 - Desert Sandstone - Gutted AB Lid, Kool Blue AF, 180* SuperStat, Hogan 3" DP, ZZP 3.6" MPS; Sensa-Trac struts, Rockford-Fosgate 6x9's; Annoyance-Fixes: Express-Down delete, Full-time juice to Power Port, BRP-power to Glovebox lite, Brake-to-Shift delete, Console-compartment lite, Seat/Mirror Memory in any gear.
69 Wildcat Convertible, 430" QJet - Burgundy/Black - P/Win, P/Seat, P/Ant, Tilt, Cruise, Remote Trunk, Rallyes, AM/FM Mono!
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|  | | BMD Member

Name: BMD Location: Canada Joined: 2009-04-29 Post Count: 217 Contribution: 525 Integrity: 11
 | Subject: Re: Write-Up: Flushing Radiator Coolant Fri Oct 30, 2009 11:15 am | |
| I just did a radiator flush, surprisingly the tank and coolant itself had very little crud in it and when testing the old coolant, it rated almost as high as the new coolant I put in it in terms of hot and cold protection.  On a side not: I was tightening the radiator drain bung before filling the system and I thought I stripped it. I tightened a few too many turns and then it skipped. I took it out and inspected the plug and rad threads but didn't see any damage. I re-tightend and it squeezed down well, stopping one turn sooner then I did the last time. I ran the car for a while to top it up and didn't see a leak. Is it possible that it didn't strip because its plastic ? | Eldo wrote: | | But since our engines are good ol' cast iron, and I hate changing gaskets, water pumps, etc, I converted to green upon the recommendation of my brother, who's been doing it for a lot of his customers at the shop... |
What do you mean Eldo? because I was told that changing the coolant every five years with Dex-Cool would extend the life of the water pump?_________________ Modern "Muscle"1996 Supercharged Riviera, Black Cherry Ext., Burgundy Int., over 200K |
|  | | Rickw Addict
Name: Rick Location: Lancaster, MA Joined: 2008-09-13 Post Count: 2694 Contribution: 3724 Integrity: 31
 | Subject: Re: Write-Up: Flushing Radiator Coolant Fri Oct 30, 2009 12:56 pm | |
| The concern with Dex-Cool (orange) is that it deteriorates the lower intake manifold gaskets prematurely. Some have had problems, others have not. If the system is clean and all air (oxygen) is purged out then it appears to be safe. From what I've read is that too much air or oxygen in the system will cause the Dex-Cool to become acidic or corrosive to certain types of gaskets. I don't know for sure on any of this data as there are more write ups in so many different places regarding Dex-Cool and it's ability to ruin gaskets that i don't know what is fact or fiction any more. With all that said the regular Ethelyn Glycol (green stuff) can be used to replace the orange stuff if you have flushed the system completely and no orange remains, then use green coolant from then on and you won't have to worry about what Dex-Cool does to intake manifold gaskets. Regarding the plastic drain plug, I think I did the same thing a couple of flushes ago and after removing the plug and inspecting it and finding no problem I re-installed as you did with no leaks or drips since then. I would just keep an eye on it for a little while and if no drips then forget about it. _________________ 98 Riv, 102K Miles, EBC, LS1 Ft.Calipers, STB, Addco Rr Sway Bar, 180* stat., SSAC Headers, HF Cat, 1.9's, 105# springs, MPS 3.4, DHP tuned by the Deekster.
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|  | | Eldo Member

Name: Mark Location: The "other" side of the Golden Gate. Joined: 2009-04-10 Post Count: 423 Contribution: 848 Integrity: 25
 | Subject: Re: Write-Up: Flushing Radiator Coolant Fri Oct 30, 2009 4:44 pm | |
| The main concerns about Dex-Cool are gaskets, plastic manifolds and gunk buildup. I added water pump just because the first new pump I put on my car lasted but 5,000 miles... The link I included has more in-depth info, as well as some great pictures of orange gunk. _________________ 97 Riviera L67 - Desert Sandstone - Gutted AB Lid, Kool Blue AF, 180* SuperStat, Hogan 3" DP, ZZP 3.6" MPS; Sensa-Trac struts, Rockford-Fosgate 6x9's; Annoyance-Fixes: Express-Down delete, Full-time juice to Power Port, BRP-power to Glovebox lite, Brake-to-Shift delete, Console-compartment lite, Seat/Mirror Memory in any gear.
69 Wildcat Convertible, 430" QJet - Burgundy/Black - P/Win, P/Seat, P/Ant, Tilt, Cruise, Remote Trunk, Rallyes, AM/FM Mono!
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|  | | BMD Member

Name: BMD Location: Canada Joined: 2009-04-29 Post Count: 217 Contribution: 525 Integrity: 11
 | Subject: Re: Write-Up: Flushing Radiator Coolant Fri Oct 30, 2009 6:26 pm | |
| My car has almost 240,000km on it and I've never seen stuff like in those pics. Interesting link though Mark, its kinda scary. My fear now is that I bled the system OK, if the culprit is indeed air. I opened the bleeder screw on top of the the thermastat housing. I didn't see spitting, but rather a trickle, perhaps I didn't have it opened enough. I guess i will be checking out the tank now and then for any build up! Thanks for the re-assurance on the overtightening Rick  . _________________ Modern "Muscle"1996 Supercharged Riviera, Black Cherry Ext., Burgundy Int., over 200K |
|  | | Rickw Addict
Name: Rick Location: Lancaster, MA Joined: 2008-09-13 Post Count: 2694 Contribution: 3724 Integrity: 31
 | Subject: Re: Write-Up: Flushing Radiator Coolant Fri Oct 30, 2009 7:07 pm | |
| Let it warm up and try bleeding it again. Let fluid run out of the little hole for a while. It can't hurt. _________________ 98 Riv, 102K Miles, EBC, LS1 Ft.Calipers, STB, Addco Rr Sway Bar, 180* stat., SSAC Headers, HF Cat, 1.9's, 105# springs, MPS 3.4, DHP tuned by the Deekster.
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|  | | ibmoses Addict

Name: Bert Location: North Alabama Joined: 2008-02-03 Post Count: 1486 Contribution: 4183 Integrity: 22
 | Subject: Re: Write-Up: Flushing Radiator Coolant Fri Oct 30, 2009 8:50 pm | |
| One thing that would be easy to overlook or to not notice when servicing the radiator is to be sure and verify that the drain pipe inside the radiator overflow reservoir and the hose that goes from the reservoir to the radiator are not clogged. That little metal tube inside the overflow reservoir is easily clogged and it only takes a few minutes to remove and clean the reservoir. While you have it off check the hose to make sure its not clogged. Bert  _________________ 99 Riviera(on the left) "Cruising Missile" Midnight Blue Pearl 90,000 miles GuttedAirBox  70GS455(on the right) Diplomat Blue "Howitzer with windshield wipers" |
|  | | Eldo Member

Name: Mark Location: The "other" side of the Golden Gate. Joined: 2009-04-10 Post Count: 423 Contribution: 848 Integrity: 25
 | Subject: Re: Write-Up: Flushing Radiator Coolant Fri Oct 30, 2009 11:45 pm | |
| Bert makes a good point about the overflow tank system... That is what keeps the system "air-free". As far as bleeding, I'm old-fashioned. Even sitting on flat ground, I don't think that in our chassis's the thermostat housing is the high point of the system. My memory's weak, but I think it WAS in the LeSabre/Park Ave bodies. Even if there's any doubt, I would just park the car pointing uphill, and let the air out the filler neck, while topping it off with coolant mix... _________________ 97 Riviera L67 - Desert Sandstone - Gutted AB Lid, Kool Blue AF, 180* SuperStat, Hogan 3" DP, ZZP 3.6" MPS; Sensa-Trac struts, Rockford-Fosgate 6x9's; Annoyance-Fixes: Express-Down delete, Full-time juice to Power Port, BRP-power to Glovebox lite, Brake-to-Shift delete, Console-compartment lite, Seat/Mirror Memory in any gear.
69 Wildcat Convertible, 430" QJet - Burgundy/Black - P/Win, P/Seat, P/Ant, Tilt, Cruise, Remote Trunk, Rallyes, AM/FM Mono!
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