It is.
And the TECH 1 can not command the fuel pump to turn on.

What's your fuel pressure like?
I had a stalling problem with my '92 Park Ave, and it turned out to be the pressure regulator. A cheap, easy fix.

On all of these cars I've owned I have never been able to hear the pump run.

If my environment is quiet enough I can hear the fuel pump pressurize teh system on start-up... but that's about it. It's more of a whirr and a hiss than a compressor buzz like the air ride gadget, probably in part because the fuel pump is a very different beast. These in-tank pumps are usually interlocking gears that force fluid through and can be regulated to maintain a specific pressure.

One issue with these fuel pumps - they depend on being immersed in the gasoline for proper cooling. That is, the fuel flowing through them does a lot to keep them cool but is not really enough to get all the service life out. In plain English, in practice in the Riv you really should not consistently run the car's fuel level below a quarter tank. If you do, (Doug, a mechanic at the local GM dealer says) you will "cook" the pump over time. (He did not say "might" becuase he's replaced so many of them for that reason.)

Albertj

Yeah, well I hear the pump and the air ride. I can hear the pump running if I go to the trunk and listen towards the back of it.

I Just had the car running for close to 30 minutes. Took it around the neighborhood, starts, stops and anything in between. Not a bit of a problem. Get home, sit it in the driveway idling and a few minutes later it died.

I seem to notice that when the heater is on my A/C compressor is cycling on and off. This seems to have a big effect on the motor as it kicks on to off or off to on.

When the HVAC control is in "Auto" mode and set to almost any temperature, the A/C will run. If it is hot out it runs to cool the air. If it is cool out it runs to control the humidity by running just enough to cause condensation on the condensor. Wha-la, that cuts the humidity a good bit in the passenger compartment.

So back to your problem: did you test the crank sensor to see if it's working? You have to use a multimeter set to ohms. The resistance you get in the reading should be low. IF the resistance is high your crank sensor is crapped out. Remember that crank sensors tend to fail 'bad warm.' So you drive the car, park in driveway, it dies, then you pull the plug on the crank sensor and using those little needle probles connect to the sensor and read the resistance on the meter.

Point is that we can talk about this stuff for a long while, and I realize this probme has persistend for some time and we have not fixed it yet. But in order to make progress, I think you'll have to do some more work and given the track record of the folks who are chiming in on this problem it's a good bet that continuing to take their suggestions won't hurt. Meaning that at smoe point, bite the bullet and test those sensors.

By the way - with an intermittent crank sensor, when the crank sensor fails the ECU cuts off the fuel, idea being that something catastrophic must have happened to seize up the engine and so pumping more fuel won't be any help.


Albertj

The A/C compressor will cycle on and off with the heater on if outside temp is above 41*. This is normal.
It should not have a BIG effect on the way the engine is running though.

As far as the engine dying after idling for 15 min. or so, I'm stumped.
Considering everything you've already replaced.
Can't remember, have you pulled the Idle Air Control Valve and cleaned or tested it yet?

I had a car some time ago, I think it was a '74 Nissan, that had a sensor in the drivers seat that would cut the car off if you left it idling and no one was in the seat. Most poeple defeated it by unplugging it. I am pretty sure the Rivs never had such a sensor except maybe the '74 with the drivers ignition seat belt interlock.

Rick points out to think about what you've alrady replaced. Also think about what you were recommeded to test and decided not to bother with for one or another reason.

Albertj

On the Idle Air Control I took it out and cleaned it as well.

On the crank sensor I found it and ran the car until it died. Then I went to test the sensor but as you stated albertj I don't see how to test the resistance at the sensor while on the car.

I appreciate the advice

One way is to unplug the wires from teh sensor at the sensor and contact the sensor with test probes. This is difficult; if it were my car, given the age of the car I would just replace the crank and cam sensors and call it "preventive maintenance" - the time this is taking would bug me.

When my crank sensor went, the fuel pump went about the same time. The mechanic (Doug) was able to command the pump on with a Tech II and prove it was bad (sometimes when commanded on it would not run; sometimes it would warble; he checked the connectors as well). When the car was in for the fuel pump, I commented onthe crank sensor and he argued that he could nto prove it's bad. When the car quit again a few days later I could not restart it. Towed it to the dealer, and the next day it started right up. He says he can't find the problem. I say replace the crank sensor. He says but we are not supposed to replace parts just because, customers get mad at us. I said think hard about when it was that I last - or ever - yelled at you guys. (never have, it's not worth it). He strokes his chin. I said what do I have to say or do to get you guys to replace the crank sensor. He says I'll take care of it. Then I go off to work (lot attendant drove me to work). I come back, there's a bill for around $130, it says "INTERMITTENT NO START. REPLACED CRANK SENSOR - CUSTOMER REQUEST"

It is entirely possible that new crank and cam sensors won't fix your problems. But no kidding, those sensors crap out after a (long) while and if yours have never been replaced I'd suggest you have it done and call it preventive maintenance. You can replace the crank sensor yourself, cheap, if you are comfortable getting the harmonic balancer off/on - not a difficult job but (a) there is basically one way to do it without messing it up - if you mess it up you need a new balancer, which may be why they can be bought for less than $60 (b) the dealer has a special tool that makes the R&R pretty quick.

Good luck

Albertj

Thanks, I do appreciate all the help and advice.

However, go out to start it tonight and something worse is going on so not sure whats going to happen with the car.

I click the key to the "ON" position and fuel pump runs a sec then stops and lights dim. Then when I try to start the car there is just odd noise coming from the PassKey box under the dash. Once you let off the key, all the dash lights, hvac, radio flash 4-5 times then stop with some kind of clicking coming from the passenger side kick panel.

Thanks,
Mike

The clicking from pass. side kick panel is relays opening and closing. Could be caused by low voltage.
Have you tested the health of the Battery. IE; voltage and load test, cleanliness of connections. Also check all major ground connections for corrosion. Bad grounds can be the cause of all problems electrical.

A weak battery will cause ALL KINDS of problems, if only because the different computers on the car are set to quit working at different (8 to 10 I think) nominal volts.



A good battery will recover a partial charge by itself, if it's not too cold out, while just sitting. Might be enough to get you going. But after you start the car if the battery is not charging then all kinds of stuff can happen, including a low-voltage shutdown. You know, we may be onto something here. COnsider trying one or more of the following:

- with the engine OFF see if you can move the alternator pulley with your hand. Do not remove the belt. If the belt is tight enough it will be nigh impossible to move the belt. If the belt tensioner is loose, the pulley can be squeeked around under the belt. Replace tensioner (I don't think they can be tightened) if the pulley can be moved by hand with the belt on.

- have you looked at the battery? If you have an OE battery it will have an "eye" - if the eye is not green your charge is low. If that is the case we have to figure out why. Consider connecting a known good battery to the Riv via jumper cables,see if it starts up and behaves, if your battery is low.. Also while you have the seat out, clean the battery terminals and make sure the vent is hooked up right. And make sure acid is not eating the battery tray. .

- Might be the alternator is shot. They do not run forever. I am on my 3rd. Neither failed electrically (they were both OE Reman Delco's) but both had bearing failures. They squealed like stuck pigs. Maybe you're "lucky" and you got the one with electrical failure. I replaced my alternator first time in 2001 (less than 70,000 miles) and second time in April '07 at ~164,000 miles.

Yeah, the electrical thing explains a lot.