 |
|
| | |
| Author | Message |
|---|
deekster_caddy Addict
Name: Derek Age: 37 Location: Reading, MA Joined: 2007-02-01 Post Count: 4446 Contribution: 3570 Integrity: 28
 | Subject: Re: Random Stall Fri Oct 30, 2009 1:33 pm | |
| The rule of thumb is that if you disconnect the vacuum line from the FP regulator, pressure should be 50 PSI. But while the vacuum line is hooked up, FP varies while driving. I would be more interested in what the reading is when it's dead - when it's running low fuel pressure isn't going to make it die, but when it's dead if there's 0 fuel pressure with the key on you might have found part of the problem. _________________ '98 Buick Riviera; Gen V 3.25 pulley, N*, VS Cam, 180 stat, Custom PCM (Powrtuner), headers & HF cat , 42.5 lb inj. Grant-built/PRJ/Thrasher trans 3.29 gears, 7/8 chain, zzp hardened IS  |
|  | | cjoform Trainee
Name: Chris Age: 24 Joined: 2009-09-19 Post Count: 21 Contribution: 108 Integrity: 1
 | Subject: Re: Random Stall Sun Nov 01, 2009 5:49 pm | |
| Well car died completely today. No pressure at the shrader valve. Nothing comes out. So I checked the fuel pump relay (replaced it with another.) Same result. I crawled into the trunk popped the hatch and unplugged the pigtail. The hotwire is only 10.2x volts with the key on. Battery had 12.2 volts. Shouldnt the pump receive battery voltage? Also could I just rig up a hot wire to the pump and a ground to just see if the pump comes on? Thanks |
|  | | deekster_caddy Addict
Name: Derek Age: 37 Location: Reading, MA Joined: 2007-02-01 Post Count: 4446 Contribution: 3570 Integrity: 28
 | Subject: Re: Random Stall Sun Nov 01, 2009 6:52 pm | |
| You can definitely hotwire the pump to see if it turns on - or where the relay is you can just put a jumper wire across the correct terminals to jump it to on. _________________ '98 Buick Riviera; Gen V 3.25 pulley, N*, VS Cam, 180 stat, Custom PCM (Powrtuner), headers & HF cat , 42.5 lb inj. Grant-built/PRJ/Thrasher trans 3.29 gears, 7/8 chain, zzp hardened IS  |
|  | | Rickw Addict
Name: Rick Location: Lancaster, MA Joined: 2008-09-13 Post Count: 2693 Contribution: 3721 Integrity: 30
 | Subject: Re: Random Stall Sun Nov 01, 2009 7:20 pm | |
| When jumping the relay, have someone available up front to read fuel pressure and record, in case there is some pressure, as that number will be important. Also, if the pump does come on while jumping it, DO NOT LET THE Fuel Pressure Exceed 65 PSi as you will blow out the fuel pressure regulator. If you cannot get the pump to come on by jumping it directly from the relay, then you know what needs to be done.!!!!!!!! Good Luck _________________ 98 Riv, 102K Miles, EBC, LS1 Ft.Calipers, STB, Addco Rr Sway Bar, 180* stat., SSAC Headers, HF Cat, 1.9's, 105# springs, MPS 3.4, DHP tuned by the Deekster.
Last edited by Rickw on Sun Nov 01, 2009 9:59 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|  | | cjoform Trainee
Name: Chris Age: 24 Joined: 2009-09-19 Post Count: 21 Contribution: 108 Integrity: 1
 | Subject: Re: Random Stall Sun Nov 01, 2009 8:30 pm | |
| Could either of you explain how to jump the relay? I was just going to run a hot wire to the pump connector and ground the pump. If jumping the relay is easier then i'd rather go that route. Thanks |
|  | | albertj Addict
Name: Location: Finger Lakes of New York State Joined: 2007-05-31 Post Count: 2052 Contribution: 2496 Integrity: 29
 | Subject: Re: Random Stall Sun Nov 01, 2009 9:17 pm | |
| As I posted before: In the interest of saving time and avoiding headaches I'd suggest a dealer diagnostic trip. Or a trip to an independent mechanic who has the necessary 2-way scanner (maybe they have a Vetronix Tech II). The bidirectional scanner will send commands to the car's computers and components to check and test them, as well as report back on for instance voltage level of the battery and such without having to pull out the seat for instance. Albertj _________________ 1998 with all fac. opts. (exc. CD changer and subwoofer); 209,000 miles. Mods: KYB front struts, extra noise barriers, fire extinguisher, Magnecor 8mm plug wires, 4-note horn, custom-made stainless exhaust.
Avatar is missing.
|
|  | | Rickw Addict
Name: Rick Location: Lancaster, MA Joined: 2008-09-13 Post Count: 2693 Contribution: 3721 Integrity: 30
 | Subject: Re: Random Stall Sun Nov 01, 2009 9:38 pm | |
| Well, the car is dead so i guess a trip to a diag center is out unless your going to tow it. Without being able to post a copy of the wiring diagram I can't explain how to jump the relay, if you don't already know. Maybe someone else here can try. I know how to do it, just don't know how to explain it. _________________ 98 Riv, 102K Miles, EBC, LS1 Ft.Calipers, STB, Addco Rr Sway Bar, 180* stat., SSAC Headers, HF Cat, 1.9's, 105# springs, MPS 3.4, DHP tuned by the Deekster.
|
|  | | Rickw Addict
Name: Rick Location: Lancaster, MA Joined: 2008-09-13 Post Count: 2693 Contribution: 3721 Integrity: 30
 | Subject: Re: Random Stall Sun Nov 01, 2009 10:11 pm | |
| | cjoform wrote: | | Im thinking its not the fuel pump simply because the car sometimes wont even crank. Its only happened a few times but within a month the car has stalled 3 times and failed to start 3 times. That is no bueno. Thanks for your replies. Im going to have a friend see if he can retrieve any stored codes tonight. I'll let you all know my findings tomorrow. |
I just went back and read all the post's on this problem. I must admit i had forgotten about the history of this car / problem. Why do you keep jumping around with your diagnostics. You need to follow a logical path or have someone that can do it. Otherwise you are going to replace parts that are not bad. I thought you had narrowed it down to the Ignition switch.???? Now I'm semi confused and must reiterate what Albert said. _________________ 98 Riv, 102K Miles, EBC, LS1 Ft.Calipers, STB, Addco Rr Sway Bar, 180* stat., SSAC Headers, HF Cat, 1.9's, 105# springs, MPS 3.4, DHP tuned by the Deekster.
|
|  | | jonly Trainee

Name: james Age: 36 Location: Springfield, IL Joined: 2007-04-18 Post Count: 41 Contribution: 1046 Integrity: 0
 | Subject: Re: Random Stall Mon Nov 02, 2009 12:04 am | |
| the dad in me needs to point out that hotwiring it at the pump could turn out to be a bad idea, that's a little too close to the tank/fumes for me to be comfortable doing it. _________________ 96 royal blue supercharged. 180tstat, gutted airbox, egr delete.
|
|  | | deekster_caddy Addict
Name: Derek Age: 37 Location: Reading, MA Joined: 2007-02-01 Post Count: 4446 Contribution: 3570 Integrity: 28
 | Subject: Re: Random Stall Mon Nov 02, 2009 6:25 am | |
| to bypass the relay, look at the way it was installed, then look at the relay. There are 4 numbers on the relay, I can't remember them exactly right now. There is also a small diagram that shows a small connection and a large connection between the numbers. This is a standard relay, very similar to those used in aftermarket lighting. You want to put your jumper wire across the larger of the connections, the supply and FP wires, not the 'signal' wires. _________________ '98 Buick Riviera; Gen V 3.25 pulley, N*, VS Cam, 180 stat, Custom PCM (Powrtuner), headers & HF cat , 42.5 lb inj. Grant-built/PRJ/Thrasher trans 3.29 gears, 7/8 chain, zzp hardened IS  |
|  | | cjoform Trainee
Name: Chris Age: 24 Joined: 2009-09-19 Post Count: 21 Contribution: 108 Integrity: 1
 | Subject: Re: Random Stall Mon Nov 02, 2009 12:37 pm | |
| I never narrowed it to an ignition switch. That is what was recommended to look at first. So I kind of considered that but with no definite answer. It's still a possibility i suppose. I dont think it is the switch personally because of people I have talked to that have told me it isnt. Heres where I'm at so everyone is on the same page. Car has no fuel pressure. Car has spark. Lights in dash come on when key is on. Car cranks over just fine. The non cranking issue before I'm assuming was the battery in the car. It ended up having less than 10 volts. I replaced the battery with a new one. The only thing that is different now than before was that the car always turns over. I'm assuming the battery was to blame for that. The problem now is no fuel. No pressure what so ever at the rail. I dont even hear the pump cycle on. so I think I've got it ran down to he pump possibly failing. I wont be just yanking and replacing parts. I dont have the cash for that. I dont have the cash to have it towed to a dealer or even scanned at a dealer. I'm a broke college kid who luckily has another car to drive until the snow falls. Thanks for the help. |
|  | | Rickw Addict
Name: Rick Location: Lancaster, MA Joined: 2008-09-13 Post Count: 2693 Contribution: 3721 Integrity: 30
 | Subject: Re: Random Stall Mon Nov 02, 2009 12:59 pm | |
| I found a Riviera fuel pump on Ebay motors a few weeks ago for someone else for less than $50.00 shipped and had it in hand in 3 days. It is a kit with the pump and all needed hose's and clamps. It requires that you remove the actual pump from the canister assembly. I think there are write ups and photo's on how to do that. If you want to buy a whole assembly with canister and fuel level sensor complete, I have seen them for sale between $200.00 and $400.00. You may be able to find one cheaper if you have the time to keep looking and waiting. But the "Buy it Now" stuff is priced as i said. If your sure it's the pump that has failed, which it sounds like it has, and mechanically inclined, the removal of the pump from the canister is relatively easy. So that is one way to save some money. Also be aware that the fuel pumps for a supercharged engine and a non- supercharged are different. So make sure you are ordering the correct part. If you change out the pump I highly recommend you change the fuel filter also. Buy that from the local auto parts store. You should get in the habit of changing the fuel filter on these cars annually, it will help extend the life of the fuel pump. Also, purchase a new O-Ring or Seal that goes under the retainer for the fuel pump and get a new Retaining ring as you will most likely find it is rusted and it will make the installation that much easier. Both the Seal and Retainer are inexpensive and available either at a local GM dealer or some auto parts store. Monsterparts.com has them but you will have to pay for shipping and wait for them to arrive. By the time you add shipping fee's you can get it at the dealer for the same money. I would recommend the dealer as you know you will get the correct and latest part number for your year vehicle. They did make a change to the o-ring seal after production. The retainer and seals are used on many different models so are usually in stock at the dealer. The Ebay vendor for the fuel pump is named: weonlysellfuelpumps and I want to correct myself, the total cost shipped was $56.94 with shipping insurance. _________________ 98 Riv, 102K Miles, EBC, LS1 Ft.Calipers, STB, Addco Rr Sway Bar, 180* stat., SSAC Headers, HF Cat, 1.9's, 105# springs, MPS 3.4, DHP tuned by the Deekster.
|
|  | | cjoform Trainee
Name: Chris Age: 24 Joined: 2009-09-19 Post Count: 21 Contribution: 108 Integrity: 1
 | Subject: Re: Random Stall Mon Nov 02, 2009 3:34 pm | |
| Thanks for the info on the pump. A friend of mine who is a ford mechanic is gonna come check it out soon. Hopefully he can get this figured out for me. I am mechanically inclined I've built a couple street strip cars but I know nothing of electronics and wiring issues. I've never had to deal with those in both my cutlasses that I put engines in. As a matter of fact this is the newest car I've owned so it's all a learning process for me. Again thanks for every ones help. I will get back to this thread when I find out more. |
|  | | playa Apprentice

Name: Mark Age: 31 Location: Dundee, OR Joined: 2009-03-17 Post Count: 58 Contribution: 323 Integrity: 0
 | Subject: Fuel Pump Mon Nov 02, 2009 4:00 pm | |
| If it's the pump, you'll find that most of the trouble of fixing it is just removing the carpet from the trunk to get access. It's the easiest thing to do. When you do buy the kit (which is the cheap and proper way to go), call the vendor on ebay and make sure it will work for you Riviera. As far as I can tell, there is a difference between Series I and Series II, SC and non SC. Also, as I pointed out on the write up for fuel pumps, you need a good heat gun. Some say hair dryer will work - but you can pick uop a cheap heat gun for $15 and if nothing else - you have it for removing old paint from your walls. Estimated time: Barring some unforeseen issue -1 hour tops. Took me about 20 minutes. Needlenose, flathead, and patience is all you need. Most kits come with step by step instructions. Good luck. _________________ 1968 Skylark Convertible, HT 3 speed, GS400 HT, Sportwagon 400 & ... 1998 Riviera-111,500 miles - bought it at 19,000 miles Sandstone Beige 3.8L SC
|
|  | | Rickw Addict
Name: Rick Location: Lancaster, MA Joined: 2008-09-13 Post Count: 2693 Contribution: 3721 Integrity: 30
 | Subject: Re: Random Stall Mon Nov 02, 2009 4:08 pm | |
| Mark, I've never changed just the pump, I've only done the complete assembly - canister and all. Just how do you remove the pump from the canister. Is it easy to explain or just easier to do. I haven't looked back on this thread to see if it is already been written. Thanks. _________________ 98 Riv, 102K Miles, EBC, LS1 Ft.Calipers, STB, Addco Rr Sway Bar, 180* stat., SSAC Headers, HF Cat, 1.9's, 105# springs, MPS 3.4, DHP tuned by the Deekster.
|
|  | | |
| Page 2 of 3 | Goto page : 1, 2, 3  |
| | Permissions of this forum: | You cannot reply to topics in this forum
| |
| |
| |
|