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 New to me RIv with trans problems, no 3rd or 4th

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elstm3
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PostSubject: New to me RIv with trans problems, no 3rd or 4th   Tue Apr 23, 2013 11:35 am

Hey guys i have done lots of reading on the issue and have not found a whole lot that could help so i am asking.

i just picked up a 97 Riv with 200k on the clock with a rebuilt engine (50-60k on rebuild). the car will not shift into 3rd, i have scanned it with a snap-on mt2500. The pcm commands the 2-3 shift and i can hear someting trying to engage and some times it will momentarily catch and then let go, it will not go into 4th and i can only get up to 35-40 max.

The scanner said the trans had a gear ratio or 3.98 and if i read correctly that is not a stock gear ratio. Also reverse will buck or shudder when throttle is applied and will occasionally will slip and not move.

I am sure i will have to find a new one or rebuild this one myself. im just trying to figure out what parts i may need to buy and other diagnostics i could run to help pinpoint the problems. i have not dropped the trans pan yet to check for shavings and the fluid looks a little dark and smells slightly burnt.
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Abaddon
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PostSubject: Re: New to me RIv with trans problems, no 3rd or 4th   Tue Apr 23, 2013 12:06 pm

That's not good. It sounds like your 3-4 clutches are wasted. Time to rip it apart and rebuild the whole thing. You won't know until you physically take it apart and look at it all.....
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th3fr4nchi5e
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PostSubject: Re: New to me RIv with trans problems, no 3rd or 4th   Tue Apr 23, 2013 12:13 pm

There have been a few people who have experienced similar problems due to issues with overcharging from a bad alternator and it throws the teansmission off. I would check that first, running voltage should be between 13.5-14.1V I believe. I would start there!

Also, give the Trans fluid a look over. If the fluid is even half a quart low, it will act funny. Also, somtimes the fluid will have some junk in it if the internals were damaged.
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elstm3
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PostSubject: Re: New to me RIv with trans problems, no 3rd or 4th   Tue Apr 23, 2013 12:16 pm

I will look into the charging issue and let you know what i find. its silly they didnt put a volt gauge in the cluster.

the trans fluid level was spot on. it looked a little dark and had some clutch "dust" in it when i wiped it on my fingers.
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th3fr4nchi5e
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PostSubject: Re: New to me RIv with trans problems, no 3rd or 4th   Tue Apr 23, 2013 12:26 pm

Yeahh, dust in the fluid is definitely not good. Definitely sounds like rebuild or replace time but you can still check on the other stuff just to be certain. Abaddon ^^ just wrote recently about a bunch of stuff hes upgrading with his tranny build. He'd probably be a good person to ask if you're looking at upgrading parts!
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PostSubject: Re: New to me RIv with trans problems, no 3rd or 4th   Tue Apr 23, 2013 12:43 pm

An over charging of the Alternator would most definitely result in more consequences than transmission shifting problems. I certainly don't think it would result in NO shifting, especially for just 2 gears.

Some dust on the stick is normal....clutches wear out, period.

Both shift solenoids are turned off for the 3rd gear shift, and the 1-2 solenoid is turned back on for the 4th gear shift, so I highly doubt you're dealing with a simple solenoid concern.
It's possible that you have a sticky valve in the valve body, but you'd have to pull the side cover and the valve body to find that.

You could possibly try a new filter and a flush. If it's a sticky valve, a good flush may alleviate the problem for now...it's a fairly inexpensive "Hail Mary".

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elstm3
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PostSubject: Re: New to me RIv with trans problems, no 3rd or 4th   Tue Apr 23, 2013 2:03 pm

If the alternator checks out i will probably drop the pan, change the filter (if no shavings are present) and take off the side cover and remove the valve body and clean it up. put everyting back togeather and see how it works.

Also my PCM said it has 3.98 Gears shocked
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PostSubject: Re: New to me RIv with trans problems, no 3rd or 4th   Tue Apr 23, 2013 4:26 pm

elstm3 wrote:
Also my PCM said it has 3.98 Gears shocked

Snap-On says it has 3.98 gears. It very well just might be a programming or translation error on their end. Unless the PCM has been tuned with a DHP or something of that nature, it's impossible. PCM's don't change programming (values) on their own.

OR, it's something in the data that you, or I, cannot translate properly. Does the Riv do 50mph in 1st gear? If it does, you certainly do not have 3.98 gears.
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elstm3
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PostSubject: Re: New to me RIv with trans problems, no 3rd or 4th   Tue Apr 23, 2013 4:45 pm

i will test this out again tonight but the fastest i have gone using 1st and 2nd is about 40-45 @4500 RPM. i will hook up the scanner to make sure it is shifting into second at those speeds.Also in neutral it will not rev past 4500 RPM is that normal?

i just have not seen anywhere that i could get those gears in this trans. so that is why i am quite confused.
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PostSubject: Re: New to me RIv with trans problems, no 3rd or 4th   Tue Apr 23, 2013 4:53 pm

elstm3 wrote:
Also in neutral it will not rev past 4500 RPM is that normal?

No, it isn't normal. You should be able to bounce it off the rev limiter in Neutral...or Park for that matter


Last edited by Abaddon on Tue Apr 23, 2013 4:57 pm; edited 1 time in total
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elstm3
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PostSubject: Re: New to me RIv with trans problems, no 3rd or 4th   Tue Apr 23, 2013 4:57 pm

it sounds like its hitting the rev limiter, what is the factory rev limit set at?
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PostSubject: Re: New to me RIv with trans problems, no 3rd or 4th   Tue Apr 23, 2013 4:58 pm

elstm3 wrote:
it sounds like its hitting the rev limiter, what is the factory rev limit set at?

Right around 5500 rpms or so.
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elstm3
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PostSubject: Re: New to me RIv with trans problems, no 3rd or 4th   Tue Apr 23, 2013 5:01 pm

Interesting. i will have to check that tonight also.
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Abaddon
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PostSubject: Re: New to me RIv with trans problems, no 3rd or 4th   Tue Apr 23, 2013 5:06 pm

Just look at the Tachometer on the IPC. Just after it turns yellow is where the rev limiter is set to.
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LARRY70GS
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PostSubject: Re: New to me RIv with trans problems, no 3rd or 4th   Tue Apr 23, 2013 6:46 pm

I think there is a lower rev limiter in Park/Neutral. I think I read that somewhere.

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PostSubject: Re: New to me RIv with trans problems, no 3rd or 4th   Wed Apr 24, 2013 8:52 am

Abaddon wrote:
elstm3 wrote:
Also in neutral it will not rev past 4500 RPM is that normal?

No, it isn't normal. You should be able to bounce it off the rev limiter in Neutral...or Park for that matter

Actually, Abaddon - you can sneak the revs past about 4000 in neutral but if you just mash/blip/stomp/whatever the throttle a "delta limiter" stops the rise unless fac settings reprogrammed.

Albertj
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PostSubject: Re: New to me RIv with trans problems, no 3rd or 4th   Wed Apr 24, 2013 9:01 am

albertj wrote:
Actually, Abaddon - you can sneak the revs past about 4000 in neutral but if you just mash/blip/stomp/whatever the throttle a "delta limiter" stops the rise unless fac settings reprogrammed.

Thanks guys. I stand corrected on the Neutral rev thing. You mean, not everyones car is like mine???? shocked

suspect
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PostSubject: Re: New to me RIv with trans problems, no 3rd or 4th   Thu Apr 25, 2013 6:59 am

Abaddon wrote:
albertj wrote:
Actually, Abaddon - you can sneak the revs past about 4000 in neutral but if you just mash/blip/stomp/whatever the throttle a "delta limiter" stops the rise unless fac settings reprogrammed.

Thanks guys. I stand corrected on the Neutral rev thing. You mean, not everyones car is like mine???? shocked

suspect

I wasn't gonna go there. censor
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