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 Complete GM F41 suspension upgrade

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Abaddon
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PostSubject: Re: Complete GM F41 suspension upgrade   Thu Aug 08, 2013 11:21 am

Makes sense. Should I add a '98-'99 only into the title? It works for '98 and above. I guess it leaves the '97 out of the picture as well. The mod really does work. I apparently dropped the ball a bit because I never looked at the '97 stuff.
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charlieRobinson
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PostSubject: Re: Complete GM F41 suspension upgrade   Thu Aug 08, 2013 11:25 am

With the F41 bar up front, what can I expect in cornering if I add the back bar later?

How much more can body roll be reduced if I add a back bar? I was thinking of doing the ADDCO in the rear.

I pulled out on a wet rainy street after work yesterday and had an enjoyable amount of oversteer. I thought for sure it would have been reduced after putting the F41 bar up front? ?
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Abaddon
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PostSubject: Re: Complete GM F41 suspension upgrade   Thu Aug 08, 2013 12:20 pm

I'm not sure exactly. With the Eibachs installed, it's hard to tell. It just might give you a little understeer, as the rear of the car won't lift as much, and might try to push you through a corner. Or, it could be the best thing since sliced bread lol. I haven't driven in a Rivi with Eibachs yet, so I can't say yay or nay about it.
If the springs on your car are anything like the Eibachs I had on my T-bird, adding a bigger bar in the rear would make it ride like a damn go-kart. My Bird hugged the road like mad. It was quite uncomfortable to drive for long periods.
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AA
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PostSubject: Re: Complete GM F41 suspension upgrade   Thu Aug 08, 2013 2:44 pm

Typically a stiffer rear sway bar increases the tendency for oversteer, all else being equal. The effect will be slightly less with the Eibachs + stiffer rear bar vs. OEM + stiffer rear bar, because you're adding the bar to already stiffer springs. It's debatable whether the oversteer is a result of increased front traction, or decreased rear traction. I like to think a stiff rear bar helps the front end stay better planted, resulting in more overall grip, but I've talked to people who feel it is more a trade-off between F/R axles.

Charlie, it's good to do the front bar first like you did. The front bar prevents the front end from rolling so much. Now adding the rear bar you can dial in a bit more oversteer without the front end acting sloppy. Safer approach, imo than just slapping on a stiffer rear bar hoping for mad oversteer.

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'98 SC Riviera 268k miles 298 HP/370 TQ 0-60: 5.79s ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 4087 lb 20.1 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley AL104 plugs 180 t-stat FWI w/K&N 1.9:1 rockers OR pushrods LS6 valve springs SLP headers ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts MaxAir shocks Addco sway bars UMI bushings GM STB Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus SS lines Brembo slotted discs DHP tuned Aeroforce Hidden Hitch


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charlieRobinson
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PostSubject: Re: Complete GM F41 suspension upgrade   Thu Aug 08, 2013 8:12 pm

I was playing again today and I am afraid that it's perfect right now.
I would like to tweak and tune and experiment with additional bars, but really, it feels amazing.

The back kicks out just enough that I can let off the gas and put her right where I want her.

I wish you guys could test drive it. Feels great.

If I do do the rear bar, I'm thinking either leaving it and just doing new bushings, or just the F41 bar.

The addco might be too much.
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AA
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PostSubject: Re: Complete GM F41 suspension upgrade   Thu Aug 08, 2013 9:11 pm

If it feels good, I'd stick with it. There's no rule that says you need stiff springs AND the stiffest sway-bars. Your car could grip better now just with the Eibachs than with stiffer bars. I have the Addcos with OEM springs and I have no desire to go any stiffer for daily driving. It's too much.

There's a happy medium for our cars where it gives the most grip for everyday roads. If you exceed the optimum combined rate (springs + bars), the wheels can start lifting off the ground over bumps, causing the car to laterally "skip". The optimum rate depends on the road surface. If you're not on a smooth race track, the result is less grip in the corners. Plus it can be uncomfortable.

Another downside to very stiff front bars: you can bend the supplied brackets when you really push it. Maybe the F41 front bar isn't enough to cause this, but a couple of us with Addco bars have seen the need to upgrade to UMI Performance CNC machined brackets. If you're able to use a standard bracket safely, and you like the results, why use a bar that requires more expensive brackets. I'd say you're sitting pretty well right now.

_________________
'98 SC Riviera 268k miles 298 HP/370 TQ 0-60: 5.79s ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 4087 lb 20.1 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley AL104 plugs 180 t-stat FWI w/K&N 1.9:1 rockers OR pushrods LS6 valve springs SLP headers ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts MaxAir shocks Addco sway bars UMI bushings GM STB Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus SS lines Brembo slotted discs DHP tuned Aeroforce Hidden Hitch


'05 GTO 49k miles 0-60: 4.8s 16.9 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun
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matt270avian
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PostSubject: Re: Complete GM F41 suspension upgrade   Thu Aug 08, 2013 9:57 pm

Let's not forget AA, you're in Ohio. Home to the worst roads in the country.
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joshuadalegrimes
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PostSubject: Re: Complete GM F41 suspension upgrade   Thu Aug 08, 2013 10:02 pm

i think thats a tie between new york and baaastan i hate both their road systems. ohio not so bad. md traffic full of idiots at rush hour but otherwise ok, ky waatch out for deer! lol i can go on i been all over
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AA
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PostSubject: Re: Complete GM F41 suspension upgrade   Thu Aug 08, 2013 10:27 pm

Quote :
Let's not forget AA, you're in Ohio. Home to the worst roads in the country.
Ours aren't great, but you haven't seen bad roads until you visit MI, just a few miles from Charlieparker's neck of the woods. It seems the closer you get to Detroit, the more likely you are to get swallowed by a giant pothole.

_________________
'98 SC Riviera 268k miles 298 HP/370 TQ 0-60: 5.79s ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 4087 lb 20.1 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley AL104 plugs 180 t-stat FWI w/K&N 1.9:1 rockers OR pushrods LS6 valve springs SLP headers ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts MaxAir shocks Addco sway bars UMI bushings GM STB Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus SS lines Brembo slotted discs DHP tuned Aeroforce Hidden Hitch


'05 GTO 49k miles 0-60: 4.8s 16.9 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun
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http://www.cardomain.com/ride/657082/4
Abaddon
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PostSubject: Re: Complete GM F41 suspension upgrade   Fri Aug 09, 2013 8:51 am

charlieRobinson wrote:
The back kicks out just enough that I can let off the gas and put her right where I want her.
My car does the exact same thing. Only difference being I have to use the throttle to straighten the car out. If I let off the throttle to hit a corner hard, you can feel the ass end want to come around. Just a little feathering of the throttle straightens it right back out.




AA wrote:
Ours aren't great, but you haven't seen bad roads until you visit MI, just a few miles from Charlieparker's neck of the woods. It seems the closer you get to Detroit, the more likely you are to get swallowed by a giant pothole.
You're not lying. Michigan roads suck ass. Oddly enough though, the further North you go, the better they are. They don't use salt in the winter up north....they use sand.
That, and anywhere near Detroit doesn't have enough money to keep up the roads. We have 3 major cities in Michigan with emergency financial managers....
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charlieRobinson
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PostSubject: Re: Complete GM F41 suspension upgrade   Fri Aug 09, 2013 9:22 am

Nothing better than crossing the border into ohio on the highway from Michigan and immediately feeling the difference in road quality.

The roads around me that I'm on aren't bad at all. I'm happy with them.
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matt270avian
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PostSubject: Re: Complete GM F41 suspension upgrade   Fri Aug 09, 2013 10:29 am

I remember on my way up to visit AA. "Welcome To Ohio" WHUMP WHUMP WHUMP WHUMP.
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AA
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PostSubject: Re: Complete GM F41 suspension upgrade   Fri Aug 09, 2013 11:01 am

OH isn't perfect by any means. I have to steer around some crap every day. We also sink our man hole covers about 3" under the road surface, which sucks. Avoid those, drive in the good parts of town and you're fine. When I go up to southern MI, I see this kind of stuff and it freaks me out a little.


_________________
'98 SC Riviera 268k miles 298 HP/370 TQ 0-60: 5.79s ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 4087 lb 20.1 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley AL104 plugs 180 t-stat FWI w/K&N 1.9:1 rockers OR pushrods LS6 valve springs SLP headers ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts MaxAir shocks Addco sway bars UMI bushings GM STB Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus SS lines Brembo slotted discs DHP tuned Aeroforce Hidden Hitch


'05 GTO 49k miles 0-60: 4.8s 16.9 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun
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http://www.cardomain.com/ride/657082/4
Sir Psycho Sexy
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PostSubject: Re: Complete GM F41 suspension upgrade   Fri Aug 09, 2013 11:21 am

I can second the notion that MI roads are awful. Detroit is bad, but try going to the middle of nowhere in lower Michigan, they call it the "Irish Hills" area. You might as well drive on the moon.
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PostSubject: Re: Complete GM F41 suspension upgrade   Sat Aug 10, 2013 3:15 am

Chicago roads are pretty shitty as well. Sink holes pop up on occasion in the middle of a residential area
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PostSubject: Re: Complete GM F41 suspension upgrade   Sat Aug 10, 2013 3:15 am

Ive gone thru a few rims and control arms hitting potholes
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Sir Psycho Sexy
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PostSubject: Re: Complete GM F41 suspension upgrade   Mon Apr 14, 2014 10:29 am

I have a question!

Instead of getting the actual gm part, could I just get the equivalent moog part from the parts store?

Edit: just did some more looking around and it seems as though the moog spring is the same no matter what vehicle or trim package I search.
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PostSubject: Re: Complete GM F41 suspension upgrade   Mon Apr 14, 2014 11:11 am

Ha. I think you'd benefit more by getting some good "performance" struts. The springs on the F41 setup are the same P/N as the '97 springs. The difference being the strut and Lower Control arms between the '97 and '98+.
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PostSubject: Re: Complete GM F41 suspension upgrade   Mon Apr 14, 2014 6:44 pm

Tyler, you gotta do the coil over mod! you know this!
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PostSubject: Re: Complete GM F41 suspension upgrade   Mon Apr 14, 2014 7:02 pm

Will my club of 1,ever initiate new member?
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PostSubject: Re: Complete GM F41 suspension upgrade   Mon Apr 14, 2014 7:30 pm

robotennis61 wrote:
Will my club of 1,ever initiate new member?

We'll do something special on my next one Robo banana
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PostSubject: Re: Complete GM F41 suspension upgrade   Mon Apr 14, 2014 7:32 pm

you got it!
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Sir Psycho Sexy
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PostSubject: Re: Complete GM F41 suspension upgrade   Mon Apr 14, 2014 8:08 pm

robotennis61 wrote:
Will my club of 1,ever initiate new member?

How much for the setup? cool
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PostSubject: Re: Complete GM F41 suspension upgrade   Mon Apr 14, 2014 9:37 pm

Can't remember? I think the run down is in the thread.Not alot really compared to aftermarket setups for a 'stang for example,just a ton of fabrication
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PostSubject: Re: Complete GM F41 suspension upgrade   Thu May 08, 2014 3:47 pm

Scott, do you know if the struts and knuckles lined up just like stock? I figure it would be easier to pull them all off of one car to get the springs, strut top mounts, and knuckles to finish my front suspension. Same question for a 98-99 STS without the magnetic ride control.
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