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matt270avian
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PostSubject: Oil Pressure Kits   Wed Sep 11, 2013 6:04 pm

Has anyone installed one of these? Intense and ZZP both have one, and the only difference I can find is that the Intense uses a new spring and washer where as the ZZP just uses a new spring. They apparently raise the oil pressure from 50-55 PSI to 80-85 PSI. The max recommended for our engines before running into issues is 85-90 PSI according to what I have read. Does anyone have more info? I will gladly be a guinea pig if not.

http://intense-racing.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=IR&Product_Code=OPK-671&Category_Code=

http://shop.zzperformance.com/store/p/95-Oil-Volume-Kit.aspx
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AA
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PostSubject: Re: Oil Pressure Kits   Wed Sep 11, 2013 6:43 pm

This is one of those mods (like the TB spacer, EGR block-off, and BBC mod) I think some people do just because, without seeking any real performance gain. You can spend a little money and say you have the high oil pressure mod, but what do you really get from it? ZZP recommends changing to full synth and claims it "should increase the life of your engine". Ya think?

I once ordered a voltage boost module ($25) thinking it could only help my electrical system. It raised the voltage about 1.4V, but there was no real improvement to anything. After my alternator needed replaced, I took the voltage mod out.

My understanding is our engines have a really good oiling system. Maybe under extreme race conditions it could benefit from the higher pressure. What someone needs to do is install an oil pressure gauge and watch what happens when the car is driven to the limits. Maybe 55 PSI is plenty. Our engines seem to get along fine.

Maybe someone can prove a need for it. If there were some real numbers showing the value, I might bite.

Personally, I've always thought these were a good idea, but never had the extra $$$: http://www.accusump.com/accusump_units.html

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'98 SC Riviera • 268k miles • 298 HP/370 TQ • 0-60: 5.79s • ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 • 4087 lb • 20.1 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
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deekster_caddy
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PostSubject: Re: Oil Pressure Kits   Wed Sep 11, 2013 8:25 pm

My educated guess is that you wouldn't see any benefit unless you have a custom built engine for racing only and are pushing so much power you start to wipe out bearings. Twin turbo? sub-10 second 1/4 miles? That might be what you need.
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LARRY70GS
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PostSubject: Re: Oil Pressure Kits   Wed Sep 11, 2013 8:56 pm

I have an Autometer mechanical oil pressure gauge along with my vacuum/boost gauge mounted where the ash tray used to be. I can tell you that the oil pressure on my 147,000 mile Riv is awesome. The gerotor oil pump on the 3800 engines is a HUGE improvement over the old gear style pumps of the older Buick V6's and V8's. I use 5W/30 Amsoil synthetic. At cold start up, I have 70 psi. Once the engine is up to temperature, it will idle in gear between 35 and 40 psi. It jumps to 63 psi at anything over 1000 RPM. I have never watched it at full throttle, but I bet it gets close to 65-70 again. There is absolutely no reason to have 80-85 psi oil pressure in our engines. All you need is 10 psi/1000 RPM, so unless you take your engine to 7000 RPM, 60 psi is plenty. Higher pressures do two things. They waste HP, and further heat the oil.

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98 Riviera SC3800  All stock except gutted air box.
1970 Buick GS455 Stage1, TSP built 470BBB, 602HP/589TQ
Best MPH, 116.06 MPH, Best ET, 11.54
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turtleman
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PostSubject: Re: Oil Pressure Kits   Wed Sep 11, 2013 9:55 pm

I've been using one of those oil pressure kits for a while and in my opinion, you are aren't missing out on anything by forgoing it. Oil pressure is not an issue in the SII 3800 at all and even if you have some manufacturing flaw holding back oiling or something worn out and reducing oil pressure, that extra pressure retention isn't going to do anything. I've always kinda figured it might be good to have some extra pressure in the bearing clearances that affect crank/cam end play and stuff like that especially when you're really spinning the engine hard but from what I've read about it, extra oil pressure doesn't have a lot of affect on that stuff anyway. It wouldn't hurt to increase oil pressure while idling warm (when it's down around 30psi) and the pump isn't flowing that much just for lack of rpm but, again, the oil pressure kit won't change that.
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LARRY70GS
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PostSubject: Re: Oil Pressure Kits   Thu Sep 12, 2013 9:22 am

Oil pressure is necessary in bearings to provide a wedge of oil that prevents journal to bearing contact.  Oil pump internal clearances and main/rod/cam bearing clearances can affect oil pressure.  Picture a pipe that is closed at both ends with holes drilled in to it.  Introduce pressure into the pipe.  The oil pressure builds to a certain level and levels off.  Oil flows from the holes in the pipe.  Think of the holes as bearing clearances.  The bigger the holes, the more pressure that is bled off.  As the oil heats up, it thins out, and that further drops pressure.  The overall condition of the engine inside, the amount of wear, inside the oil pump, in the bearings, all affects oil pressure.  So does the viscosity of the oil you choose to run.  In our engines, all you need is 10 psi/1000 RPM.  At idle, all you need is 10 psi, maybe even less.  At 6000 RPM, you want to see 60 psi.

I am very familiar with oil pressure problems as I have a high performance Big block Buick 455 in my 70 Gran Sport.  These engines had a reputation for a weak oiling system.  Buick used a thin walled casting for the block.  To stabilize the block, they used the biggest crank of any engine.  The main bearing bore is a full 3.25".  The oil pump was integral with the timing chain cover.  It consisted of a pocket with 2 spinning gears to pump oil, that was driven by a tang on the bottom of the distributor shaft.  The timing chain cover is aluminum, the gears, steel.  The aluminum expands more than the steel gears.  This increases clearances inside the pump, and along with hotter oil, drops oil pressure.  The factory had very tight clearances inside the pump, as well as tight main and rod bearing clearances to control oil pressure.  Bigger bearing clearances bleed oil pressure from the front of the engine to the rear.  In addition, high bearing speeds due to those huge crank journals force oil out of the bearings.  These engines were designed to move big 5000 lb. boats around.  They were low RPM torque motors, and rarely saw the high side of 4500 RPM.  You can spin them higher, but they need 11-12 psi/1000 RPM to live.  That entails paying careful attention to bearing clearances and oil pump condition/set up.  My current 470 uses a balance line that oils the engine from front and rear.  I don't spin my engine past 6000 RPM where it makes it's peak HP (602HP).  Using 10W/30 oil, I have seen my hot idle oil pressure in gear, as low as 24psi. When cold, at initial start up, it is a full 70 psi, and it idles at around 60 psi.  At higher rpm, fully warm, it is a full 70-75 psi.  That is all I need for this engine.

My point in all of this is that none of the above applies to the 3800 engine.  It has a much smaller crank shaft, and a far superior oil pump.  30 psi is OUTSTANDING oil pressure at a hot idle.  60 psi at higher RPM is all the engine needs.  Increasing oil pressure beyond factory specs just forces the oil pump to work harder (pumping oil takes HP), and further heats the oil by compressing it more.  Waste of money IMHO.  Why fix something that isn't broken.  If you are worried about your oil pressure, get a good gauge on it like i have, and see where it actually is.

_________________
98 Riviera SC3800  All stock except gutted air box.
1970 Buick GS455 Stage1, TSP built 470BBB, 602HP/589TQ
Best MPH, 116.06 MPH, Best ET, 11.54
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHCda-t_Jls
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfT2tEO4XcU
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