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Johnny5
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PostSubject: Re: Riviera from hell   Riviera from hell - Page 2 EmptyFri Oct 25, 2013 10:09 am

I dont have a problem buying a new one if this is the fix its coo,l but if its just to simplify or mask a problem then whats my next step.. what cars have out maf's in them
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Abaddon
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PostSubject: Re: Riviera from hell   Riviera from hell - Page 2 EmptyFri Oct 25, 2013 10:39 am

Johnny5 wrote:
what cars have out maf's in them
S/C Grand Prixs, Park Avenues, Regals.....pretty much anything with a Series II 3800 S/C in it. It's the exact same part number as my '98. I have a spare MAF sensor still in my stock throttle body I'm willing to send you if you want to try it.
A new MAF ranges anywhere from $60-$100. That's why I suggested finding one from a different car and testing it out.
Do you have any friends with a S/C 3800??? All you have to do is take out their MAF and install it into your TB. Let the car run for awhile and see if it fixes it.
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Johnny5
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PostSubject: Re: Riviera from hell   Riviera from hell - Page 2 EmptyFri Oct 25, 2013 1:16 pm

Is it safe to run with out it untill the parts come in?
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Abaddon
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PostSubject: Re: Riviera from hell   Riviera from hell - Page 2 EmptyFri Oct 25, 2013 2:04 pm

Johnny5 wrote:
Is it safe to run with out it untill the parts come in?
It certainly isn't going to run all that well. I suppose as long as you aren't blasting wide open throttle you'd be ok. Although, I don't see why you'd drive with it unplugged. It's actually running rich because of it, not lean. If the MAF is in fact skewed, it's just telling the engine that it's getting more air than it actually is, causing the 16.4% added fuel. It's really not starving for fuel, it just thinks it is.
If it were the other way around, and the PCM was taking fuel away from the engine, then yes, I'd say drive without the MAF plugged in, because that's when you might hurt something. Running a bit rich isn't going to really do anything but smell up the neighborhood...

EDIT: Do you have a way to monitor the MAF frequency with that scanner you have? If you do, I could post part of the MAF table. This way we could see what your MAF is reading compared to what it should be. This might help with some peace of mind.
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Johnny5
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PostSubject: Re: Riviera from hell   Riviera from hell - Page 2 EmptyFri Oct 25, 2013 3:13 pm

Abaddon wrote:

Johnny5 wrote:
Is it safe to run with out it untill the parts come in?
It certainly isn't going to run all that well. I suppose as long as you aren't blasting wide open throttle you'd be ok. Although, I don't see why you'd drive with it unplugged. It's actually running rich because of it, not lean. If the MAF is in fact skewed, it's just telling the engine that it's getting more air than it actually is, causing the 16.4% added fuel. It's really not starving for fuel, it just thinks it is.
If it were the other way around, and the PCM was taking fuel away from the engine, then yes, I'd say drive without the MAF plugged in, because that's when you might hurt something. Running a bit rich isn't going to really do anything but smell up the neighborhood...

EDIT: Do you have a way to monitor the MAF frequency with that scanner you have? If you do, I could post part of the MAF table. This way we could see what your MAF is reading compared to what it should be. This might help with some peace of mind.

Why yes it can but to monitor it while driving is going to be the cruddy part
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Johnny5
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PostSubject: Re: Riviera from hell   Riviera from hell - Page 2 EmptyFri Oct 25, 2013 3:19 pm

And im getting really really bs gas mileage it was at quarter full day before yesterday today im on a quarter empty I dont know about you and 93 at almost 72 dollars a tank is no fun
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Abaddon
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PostSubject: Re: Riviera from hell   Riviera from hell - Page 2 EmptyFri Oct 25, 2013 3:51 pm

Johnny5 wrote:
And im getting really really bs gas mileage it was at  quarter full day before yesterday today im on a quarter empty I dont know about you and 93 at almost 72 dollars a tank is no fun

Of course your gas mileage would be terrible. That 16% your seeing is added fuel beyond what it actually requires to run the engine efficiently.

I'm more concerned about what it reads at idle, and I mean warm idle...750 RPMs idle.
At idle, the MAF should be around 2.5 g/sec. It usually bounces around 2.3-2.75 g/sec (1600-1800Hz). If you have a smaller pulley, the reading would be a tad higher. My guess is that yours might be reading somewhere between 5-7 g/sec at idle, which could be why it's adding fuel.

Another thing to look at is the O2 sensor reading. Look at the reading with the MAF plugged in, and with the MAF unplugged. I'm betting that the O2 is showing under 400mV with it plugged in, and around 500-600mV with it unplugged. That O2 reading is a direct link to how rich or lean the vehicle is running, or what it thinks it's running.
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Johnny5
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PostSubject: Re: Riviera from hell   Riviera from hell - Page 2 EmptyFri Oct 25, 2013 4:50 pm

Well I dont think im able to read o2 sensors ill look it up on the website... but every thing your saying is happening right about now. So that tells me you've been down this road a time ago so what your saying its safe to get the maf replaced and vapor canister replaced and I can be on my way
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Johnny5
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PostSubject: Re: Riviera from hell   Riviera from hell - Page 2 EmptySat Oct 26, 2013 10:11 am

Riviera from hell - Page 2 Th_Unplugone_zpsb3faacd6 the cruise
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Johnny5
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PostSubject: Re: Riviera from hell   Riviera from hell - Page 2 EmptySat Oct 26, 2013 10:13 am

Riviera from hell - Page 2 Th_Sittingunplugged_zps5bd48eb5 parked and still unplugged and it hesitated and shut off on me 3 minutes in park
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Johnny5
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PostSubject: Re: Riviera from hell   Riviera from hell - Page 2 EmptySun Oct 27, 2013 6:22 am

I forgot to make a video for the maf but I got the o2 abaddon Riviera from hell - Page 2 20131027_015006_zpsaf6d4141

Riviera from hell - Page 2 20131027_015001_zpsf632d17f

Im guessing bank 2 dont work since it never moved at all so I already ordered a maf n vapor canister what else CAPTAIN
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Johnny5
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PostSubject: Re: Riviera from hell   Riviera from hell - Page 2 EmptySun Oct 27, 2013 6:23 am

And thats with the maf unplugged
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Abaddon
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PostSubject: Re: Riviera from hell   Riviera from hell - Page 2 EmptyMon Oct 28, 2013 8:46 am

Bank 2 O2 sensors don't exist on our cars. A Bank 2 sensor sensor would only exist if we had an O2 in each manifold, so I wouldn't concern yourself with that parameter. A lot of scan tools still have the parameter listed in the data, but they just read "zero".

It certainly appears that your MAF is skewed. Out of curiosity, are you using an air filter that's drenched in oil? I know that if you use too much oil on the filter, it will get the MAF dirty and cause it to do exactly what's happening now. Also, did you remove the honeycomb from the TB? If you did, put it back. It's specifically put there to even the air flow entering the S/C inlet and to help prevent swirling. This could also cause strange MAF readings.

I'm just asking. Weirder things have happened.....
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Johnny5
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PostSubject: Re: Riviera from hell   Riviera from hell - Page 2 EmptyMon Oct 28, 2013 9:37 am

No I dont have a honey comb in it ... am I able to buy one...?
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PostSubject: Re: Riviera from hell   Riviera from hell - Page 2 EmptyMon Oct 28, 2013 10:24 am

I agree with the overoiled Air filter. I know I damaged mm MAF using too much oil.  Ended up pulling one off a Regal GS at U-pick-apart. Cleaned it off with MAF cleaner and installed it. I disconnected the battery and hooked it back up the next morning and she was fixed
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Johnny5
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PostSubject: Re: Riviera from hell   Riviera from hell - Page 2 EmptyMon Oct 28, 2013 10:32 am

I ordered a new maf already Hitachi, but I don't have a honey comb in it symptoms I just cleaned my air filter for the first time the problem has been consistent
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Abaddon
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PostSubject: Re: Riviera from hell   Riviera from hell - Page 2 EmptyMon Oct 28, 2013 10:38 am

I'll check and see if the honeycomb is still available....

EDIT: You can buy one from RockAuto.com

1996 BUICK RIVIERA 3.8L V6 Supercharged : Fuel/Air : Throttle Body

Price




ACDELCO Part # 2171425
{#24503677}
SCREEN,THROT BODY AIR INL

Part Image

$19.11
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Johnny5
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PostSubject: Re: Riviera from hell   Riviera from hell - Page 2 EmptyMon Oct 28, 2013 4:47 pm

I found 3 throttle bodies today G but they were non supercharged cars and I didnt have a tape measure to see if they fit
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Abaddon
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PostSubject: Re: Riviera from hell   Riviera from hell - Page 2 EmptyMon Oct 28, 2013 5:10 pm

It appears that the MAF sensors on S/C and non-S/C engines are the same. I'm also seeing that the
'96 had 2 different MAF designs? A 2-bolt and a 3-bolt design?
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Johnny5
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PostSubject: Re: Riviera from hell   Riviera from hell - Page 2 EmptyMon Oct 28, 2013 5:23 pm

Yeah I have 2 screws but I found 3 throttle bodies, with screens does it matter if the cars was not supercharged? I want to do a N* conversion but 300 sounds foolish to spend right now
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Abaddon
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PostSubject: Re: Riviera from hell   Riviera from hell - Page 2 EmptyMon Oct 28, 2013 5:25 pm

The screens are the same no matter what. There is an inside spring-clip that can be removed (carefully) with a small screwdriver in the TB opening. After that clip is removed, you can take out the screen.
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Johnny5
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PostSubject: Re: Riviera from hell   Riviera from hell - Page 2 EmptyMon Oct 28, 2013 5:35 pm

Yeah so now I know he was going to give the screen out of a early model park avenue but I couldnt tell if the screen was the Same size
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Johnny5
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PostSubject: Re: Riviera from hell   Riviera from hell - Page 2 EmptyMon Oct 28, 2013 5:36 pm

I hope this is the cure for problems cause im ready to bolt on my intercooler n sell it for a European
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Johnny5
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PostSubject: Re: Riviera from hell   Riviera from hell - Page 2 EmptyTue Oct 29, 2013 6:58 pm

Found a screen at a the junk yard he was going to give it to me for free but I paid him 10 bucks he save me 20...but meanwhile its in and I'm looking thru my scanner my stft lowered while in gear but ltft there higher than my cholesterol..mass air flow doesn't come in until tomorrow so I'm stuck again still burning rich
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Johnny5
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PostSubject: Re: Riviera from hell   Riviera from hell - Page 2 EmptyTue Oct 29, 2013 7:02 pm

And this p0441 has reared his head and p0102 not damn
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