Random Stall - starts up an hour or more later...

So, a few weeks ago, I got hit with a random stall.  Luckily, I was close to home and was able to push it back.  Initially, the car would turn over but no start.  Came out 2 hours later, started right up.  Tempted fate for a week to see if it would duplicate and sure enough, stop and go traffic, stalled again.  Again, crank no start for about 90 minutes.  Replaced fuel pump cause I had one in reserve and I truly thought that was the problem.  Today, it happened again.  

So, here's what I know.  All 3 times it stalled at relatively low speeds.  All three times I had driven the car in the previous hour before driving again.  No codes have been thrown.  

I read somewhere and I think this is good diagnostic advice...  If it sputters and dies, it's likely fuel/mechanical related.  If it dies abruptly, it's likely electrical/sensor related (in general of course).

Looking for suggestions on what to check.  The MAF was replaced not long ago and so was the Cam sensor.  The crank sensor has not been replaced.  Let me know your thoughts.

BTW, 179K miles

The Crank Sensor would be your #1 priority at this point. If that doesn't fix it, there are other gremlins that need to be addressed.

this sounds like a crank sensor fail:
engine quits when hot,
particularly after being parked and allowed to 'heat soak.

then it starts after cooling off.
there is no mechanism to produce a code.
r&r of crank sensor requires pulling the harmonic balancer.
the factory service manual is not much help with this problem.

your 8th gen riv crank sensor is a 20-year old hall effect electrical
device that lives in a very harsh environment: it endures
heat cycles, splashing water, leaking oil.

rockauto has them at reasonable price.
also reccomend you tune up the electrical connection.

Lmck3 wrote:

this sounds like a crank sensor fail:
engine quits when hot,
particularly after being parked and allowed  to 'heat soak.

then it starts after cooling off.
there is no mechanism to produce a code.
r&r of crank sensor requires pulling the harmonic balancer.
the factory service manual is not much help with this problem.

your 8th gen riv crank sensor is a 20-year old hall effect electrical
device that lives in a very harsh environment: it endures
heat cycles, splashing water, leaking oil.

rockauto has them at reasonable price.
also reccomend you tune up the electrical connection.

+1 this. Crank Sensor replacement isn't that difficult but it is specific and watch out for balancers with crap guts. If ANYTHING goes wrong with your balancer -- tear or crack in the rubber or what have you -- get a good balancer. The Delco and the Dayco come to mind. And while you are at it get a new Woodruff key in case yours is whacked popping the old balancer off.

Oh and that crank sensor. No matter what, get a good one not the economy sensors; the first time my CS failed the local GM dealer replaced it with a Standard T series, due to time constraints. That sensor failed in about 2 years; they won't install 'em anymore unless the customer (warranty payer in some cases) insists.

As I've read more and more I agree with you all its the crank sensor.  I plan on replacing it and the balancer since it's not that expensive and I really don't want to deal with this for a long time.  But as I read the service manuals, it talks about the CPK learn procedure.  While I have and OBD2 scanner, I don't think I'm able to initiate the learn procedure with it.  Is there something post install I need to do?  In the manuals, It talks of reving it to 5120 RPMs and allowing it to cut out....

playa wrote:

As I've read more and more I agree with you all its the crank sensor.  I plan on replacing it and the balancer since it's not that expensive and I really don't want to deal with this for a long time.  But as I read the service manuals, it talks about the CPK learn procedure.  While I have and OBD2 scanner, I don't think I'm able to initiate the learn procedure with it.  Is there something post install I need to do?  In the manuals, It talks of reving it to 5120 RPMs and allowing it to cut out....

Yes, you have to do a Crank relearn. No, there's absolutely nothing you can do to get around it. Only a high quality scanner can put the car into Crank relearn (Modus, Solus, TechII).
You may be able to get away without a relearn, though. The car will still start and run just fine without it. Eventually, it will throw a code (P1374 or P1380?). The relearn at that point is inevitable.

Abaddon wrote:

playa wrote:

As I've read more and more I agree with you all its the crank sensor.  I plan on replacing it and the balancer since it's not that expensive and I really don't want to deal with this for a long time.  But as I read the service manuals, it talks about the CPK learn procedure.  While I have and OBD2 scanner, I don't think I'm able to initiate the learn procedure with it.  Is there something post install I need to do?  In the manuals, It talks of reving it to 5120 RPMs and allowing it to cut out....

Yes, you have to do a Crank relearn. No, there's absolutely nothing you can do to get around it. Only a high quality scanner can put the car into Crank relearn (Modus, Solus, TechII).
You may be able to get away without a relearn, though. The car will still start and run just fine without it. Eventually, it will throw a code (P1374 or P1380?). The relearn at that point is inevitable.

...not only that but if you R&R the balancer yourself and the car is running right, a mechanic (many of the better ones have the Solus or its cousins) or even a GM dealer (at least in a rural area, they are not wound as tight) will do the crank relearn for you for short money.

Just to bring this issue to a close, I finally sat down and did the repair.  Got all the parts ordered, went around town and got the puller and bolts.  I went ahead and replaced both the crank sensor and the HB since I had it off.  

One thing I walked away with...  
- I was unable to break loose with my air impact wrench the crank bolt.  That said, I put an 18 inch breaker bar with short extension and did the old crank the starter quickly trick.  It worked like a charm.  There is a section of the subframe where you can stick the breaker bar through and in case you aren't sure which way the bar will fly, it keeps from moving around.

There were some minor things I might add to the write-up but overall, the one we have on this site is near perfect.  It fixed the problem as I have driven it a week or so and have not had a repeat of the stalling issue I had before.  I have yet to throw a code so maybe 98 doesn't need to be relearned???  We'll see.....

playa wrote:

Just to bring this issue to a close, I finally sat down and did the repair.  Got all the parts ordered, went around town and got the puller and bolts.  I went ahead and replaced both the crank sensor and the HB since I had it off.  

One thing I walked away with...  
- I was unable to break loose with my air impact wrench the crank bolt.  That said, I put an 18 inch breaker bar with short extension and did the old crank the starter quickly trick.  It worked like a charm.  There is a section of the subframe where you can stick the breaker bar through and in case you aren't sure which way the bar will fly, it keeps from moving around.

There were some minor things I might add to the write-up but overall, the one we have on this site is near perfect.  It fixed the problem as I have driven it a week or so and have not had a repeat of the stalling issue I had before.  I have yet to throw a code so maybe 98 doesn't need to be relearned???  We'll see.....

The 98 will run OK without a relearn (may not pass an emissions inspection at first) and better with one if you do the sensor replacement pretty much by the writeup on this site. What's more, after a driving a bit (days/week or so) it may not matter, if everything else is sound it (the ECM) will 'relearn' itself and the car will pass an IM inspection. You need some stop-n-go and some (25+ miles I think) highway cruising in there.

Albertj