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 FAQ: Flaking, Chipping, Cracking, Thinning Paint

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deekster_caddy
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Flaking, Chipping, Cracking, Thinning Paint   FAQ: Flaking, Chipping, Cracking, Thinning Paint - Page 4 EmptyWed Jan 23, 2013 9:24 pm

I've been going to auto body classes at our local Voc Tech school to learn how to prep and handle a spray gun. I found it so useful I keep going back. Now I'm welding and everything. At the auto body class I have access to the full spray booth, welding equipment, and the shop teacher who was in auto body for like 30 years before retiring to teach. The class costs $150 for 12 weeks, one 3 hour night per week. Worth every penny.

But without seeing how it's supposed to be done I realized just how crappy all my prior body hacks were.
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zpetey88
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PostSubject: defective clear coat, bright white diamond please help   FAQ: Flaking, Chipping, Cracking, Thinning Paint - Page 4 EmptySat Mar 16, 2013 6:29 pm

Hey all, new to the forum, this seems like the right dept to post under, but I have a '97 bright white diamond riviera with what seems like a defective clear coat, paint thinning and the entire body of the car is covered evenly in thin spiderweb cracks, I've heard that this is a problem on white rivs, and ive talked to 2 other owners with the exact same issue, however I have seen b.w.d. painted cars with non messed up paint, so it is possible. i was just wondering if anyone else has the same problem or knows how to fix it , thanks
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bigdave
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Flaking, Chipping, Cracking, Thinning Paint   FAQ: Flaking, Chipping, Cracking, Thinning Paint - Page 4 EmptySat Mar 16, 2013 6:42 pm

Welcome! Sorry to hear of your paint problem. Unfortunately the only fix is to repaint it.
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LARRY70GS
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Flaking, Chipping, Cracking, Thinning Paint   FAQ: Flaking, Chipping, Cracking, Thinning Paint - Page 4 EmptySat Mar 16, 2013 10:06 pm

Not just white paint. The only option is to strip it down to bare metal and re paint it. Been there, done that, Bought the tee shirt. Sorry.

_________________
98 Riviera SC3800  All stock except gutted air box.
1970 Buick GS455 Stage1, TSP built 470BBB, 602HP/589TQ
Best MPH, 116.06 MPH, Best ET, 11.54
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHCda-t_Jls
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al_roethlisberger
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PostSubject: Defective factory paint, another theory, UV?   FAQ: Flaking, Chipping, Cracking, Thinning Paint - Page 4 EmptyMon Jun 17, 2013 12:09 am

So here is an interesting observation... at least I think so wink

Like many of you, I have the factory paint issue where the base color coat looks "shattered" under the clear, or like someone took steel wool to the finish.

There are theories of why this paint failed, and those may be correct, but I wonder if UV (Sunlight) played a role?

Here is why I surmise it may have:  I had a rather large dealer sticker on the back trunk lip of my 95, which I believe to be original to the car.  It was a foil sticker, so it blocked all light.  When I removed that sticker the other day, the factory paint was perfect underneath.  There were none of the "shatter lines" under the clear, and one can now clearly see where the sticker had been as the transition to "no shatter" to "shattered" is right at the boundaries of the sticker.

We see some 95-99 Rivieras sometimes still with good paint, so I wonder if some of these were garaged or covered much/all of their life, especially early while the paint was still curing.  And if so, if that kept the paint from failing?

We had an issue with our 2004 Honda Pilot where Honda's paint didn't cure as quickly as they thought, and the white plastic shipping decals they put on the cars left odd streaks in the silver undercoat... not the clear on top...... but under because the paint hadn't fully cured and there was some issue with water being held up against the clear by the decals.


I guess another issue could be some sort of vapor barrier the sticker on my Riviera provided?

We'll likely never know, but I wonder if this Riviera and similar GM paint had the same type of issue with paint not quite curing, and Sunlight played a role?

Maybe if a Riviera was out of the Sun for a while right after purchase, that's why a few seemed to hold up better than the rest?

Regardless, mine didn't rolleyes

Al
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highwaywarrior
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Flaking, Chipping, Cracking, Thinning Paint   FAQ: Flaking, Chipping, Cracking, Thinning Paint - Page 4 EmptyMon Jun 17, 2013 1:03 am

mine looks like that as well, like someone wiped it with steel wool, mine pearl white, and its annoying lol
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stan
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Flaking, Chipping, Cracking, Thinning Paint   FAQ: Flaking, Chipping, Cracking, Thinning Paint - Page 4 EmptyMon Jun 17, 2013 1:14 am

...they better recall all 95-99 Rivs and give us a brand new 2013 paint...(for the price of free)
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al_roethlisberger
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Flaking, Chipping, Cracking, Thinning Paint   FAQ: Flaking, Chipping, Cracking, Thinning Paint - Page 4 EmptyMon Jun 17, 2013 7:54 am

I agree. Let's start an online petition.  Those always work wink
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Abaddon
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Flaking, Chipping, Cracking, Thinning Paint   FAQ: Flaking, Chipping, Cracking, Thinning Paint - Page 4 EmptyMon Jun 17, 2013 8:32 am

Quick question. Have any of you ever seen a 15-18 year old car, that hasn't been garage kept, and driven in the winter, that has good paint? I suppose if someone were anal enough to wash the car at least twice a week, and keep it waxed with a good, quality wax with UV protection in it, it could be in great shape.

If you sat out in the sun for that long, you'd look horrible too wink. Any car with a bumper sticker on it for a long period of time is going to have perfect paint underneath it....
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AA
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Flaking, Chipping, Cracking, Thinning Paint   FAQ: Flaking, Chipping, Cracking, Thinning Paint - Page 4 EmptyMon Jun 17, 2013 8:59 am

My Riv has never been garaged, and the paint isn't reacting the way some of you are seeing. The clear is just starting to fade on the roof, and there little chips on the hood around the grill. Overall the paint is in good shape.

I never babied the paint. Maybe washed her 4 times per year, seriously. I think too much washing actually damages clearcoat and piant. Only waxed once per year.

My theory is the paint formulations were different for different years and colors. I think UV light and certain cleaning chemicals helped accelerate the issue.

_________________
'98 SC Riviera • 281k miles • 298 HP/370 TQ • 0-60: 5.79s • ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 • 4087 lb • 20.1 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley • AL104 plugs • 180º t-stat • FWI w/K&N • 1.9:1 rockers • OR pushrods • LS6 valve springs • SLP headers • ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts • MaxAir shocks • Addco sway bars • UMI bushings • GM STB • Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s • F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus • SS lines • Brembo slotted discs • DHP tuned • Aeroforce • Hidden Hitch

^^^ SOLD ^^^ frown

'05 GTO • 85k miles • 0-60: 4.8s • 16.9 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun


'70 Olds Ninety-Eight Holiday Coupe • 116k miles • 455 Rocket V8
Because cool


'95 Celica • 152k miles • 0-60: yes
Because free
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ghpcnm
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Flaking, Chipping, Cracking, Thinning Paint   FAQ: Flaking, Chipping, Cracking, Thinning Paint - Page 4 EmptyMon Jun 17, 2013 9:02 am

I use Hawaiian Tropic SPF-50 on mine lol
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highwaywarrior
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Flaking, Chipping, Cracking, Thinning Paint   FAQ: Flaking, Chipping, Cracking, Thinning Paint - Page 4 EmptyMon Jun 17, 2013 9:04 am

Lol
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ghpcnm
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Flaking, Chipping, Cracking, Thinning Paint   FAQ: Flaking, Chipping, Cracking, Thinning Paint - Page 4 EmptyMon Jun 17, 2013 9:17 am

@AA:
Not being critical or anything, I just can't imagine you only washing your car 4 times per year. 
IMO, washing and waxing does not harm the finish if it's done properly. 
I wax my cars at least 6 times per year. Of course, I'm a fanatic. cool
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Abaddon
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Flaking, Chipping, Cracking, Thinning Paint   FAQ: Flaking, Chipping, Cracking, Thinning Paint - Page 4 EmptyMon Jun 17, 2013 9:31 am

I've got spots on the corners of my decklid and roof that have that "steel wool" look to it. You can't see it until you hit the right angle in the right light though. I'm sure the car color has a lot to do with how visible it is....
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al_roethlisberger
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Flaking, Chipping, Cracking, Thinning Paint   FAQ: Flaking, Chipping, Cracking, Thinning Paint - Page 4 EmptyMon Jun 17, 2013 11:36 am

I have seen plenty of "20 year old cars" with paint that is just fine, such as my 1995 Roadmaster.  And given the number of folks reporting this issue, it does seem specific to the Riviera or some set of GM models.  So I suspect a bad batch of paint or primer.

Not sure the UV was the sole culprit, but was speculating it might be a contributor.  I'm sure we'll never really know.
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AA
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Flaking, Chipping, Cracking, Thinning Paint   FAQ: Flaking, Chipping, Cracking, Thinning Paint - Page 4 EmptyMon Jun 17, 2013 11:45 am

UV is always a contributor, imo. Eventually all paints will crack and fade, and sunlight causes a lot of this degradation. Some paints are better than others, and the protective clear coat is especially important.

GM was obviously concerned with this when introducing the ZR-1 a few years ago. They added a special clear coat for protecting paint on the carbon fiber panels. The additive used is said to cost between $2000-6000 per gallon. Other sources say $30k+ before it's mixed. My guess is most ZR-1s will have great-looking paint in 20 years time.

_________________
'98 SC Riviera • 281k miles • 298 HP/370 TQ • 0-60: 5.79s • ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 • 4087 lb • 20.1 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley • AL104 plugs • 180º t-stat • FWI w/K&N • 1.9:1 rockers • OR pushrods • LS6 valve springs • SLP headers • ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts • MaxAir shocks • Addco sway bars • UMI bushings • GM STB • Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s • F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus • SS lines • Brembo slotted discs • DHP tuned • Aeroforce • Hidden Hitch

^^^ SOLD ^^^ frown

'05 GTO • 85k miles • 0-60: 4.8s • 16.9 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun


'70 Olds Ninety-Eight Holiday Coupe • 116k miles • 455 Rocket V8
Because cool


'95 Celica • 152k miles • 0-60: yes
Because free
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abaucom
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Flaking, Chipping, Cracking, Thinning Paint   FAQ: Flaking, Chipping, Cracking, Thinning Paint - Page 4 EmptyTue Jun 18, 2013 10:57 am

My 1998 bright white diamond riviera was factory ordered new.  Always garage kept, washed about every two weeks, waxed yearly, never been driven on salted winter roads.  Had it detailed a few weeks ago by a pro, full clay bar & polish.  Paint finish is perfect with no cracking or fade.   I can only suggest condition of my paint is due being garage kept and washed frequently to remove stuff (like bird poop & bugs) that can damage the clear coat.
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Flaking, Chipping, Cracking, Thinning Paint   FAQ: Flaking, Chipping, Cracking, Thinning Paint - Page 4 EmptyTue Jun 18, 2013 11:07 am

the roof of my 1999 was flakey when I got it. It just got worse and I ended up just powerwashing the entire roof off. 

I have crackles and scratches EVERYWHERE. I'm trying to save up for a new paint job, but, AINT NOBODY GOT TIME FOR DAT!
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AA
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Flaking, Chipping, Cracking, Thinning Paint   FAQ: Flaking, Chipping, Cracking, Thinning Paint - Page 4 EmptyTue Jun 18, 2013 11:35 am

Quote :
My 1998 bright white diamond riviera was factory ordered new.  Always garage kept, washed about every two weeks, waxed yearly, never been driven on salted winter roads.  Had it detailed a few weeks ago by a pro, full clay bar & polish.  Paint finish is perfect with no cracking or fade.   I can only suggest condition of my paint is due being garage kept and washed frequently to remove stuff (like bird poop & bugs) that can damage the clear coat.

There's always the exception to the rule. Congrats on having the discipline to keep your Riv in such nice shape. When I bought mine in 2003, I intended to do the same, but had no space in the garage. I did the best I could with a sun shade and strategic parking in the summertime. I also drove her in the winter. Overall, can't complain about the car's shape, though she's nowhere near as nice as yours. I need to repaint the roof soon (it's not flaking, just a bit hazy). Otherwise I still get compliments about the condition of the car, esp. having 260k+.

GM built at least one great car during a time of not-so-great cars.

_________________
'98 SC Riviera • 281k miles • 298 HP/370 TQ • 0-60: 5.79s • ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 • 4087 lb • 20.1 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley • AL104 plugs • 180º t-stat • FWI w/K&N • 1.9:1 rockers • OR pushrods • LS6 valve springs • SLP headers • ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts • MaxAir shocks • Addco sway bars • UMI bushings • GM STB • Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s • F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus • SS lines • Brembo slotted discs • DHP tuned • Aeroforce • Hidden Hitch

^^^ SOLD ^^^ frown

'05 GTO • 85k miles • 0-60: 4.8s • 16.9 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun


'70 Olds Ninety-Eight Holiday Coupe • 116k miles • 455 Rocket V8
Because cool


'95 Celica • 152k miles • 0-60: yes
Because free
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Abaddon
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Flaking, Chipping, Cracking, Thinning Paint   FAQ: Flaking, Chipping, Cracking, Thinning Paint - Page 4 EmptyTue Jun 18, 2013 11:50 am

read
abaucom wrote:
My 1998 bright white diamond riviera was factory ordered new.  Always garage kept, washed about every two weeks, waxed yearly, never been driven on salted winter roads.  Had it detailed a few weeks ago by a pro, full clay bar & polish.  Paint finish is perfect with no cracking or fade.   I can only suggest condition of my paint is due being garage kept and washed frequently to remove stuff (like bird poop & bugs) that can damage the clear coat.

werd
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Flaking, Chipping, Cracking, Thinning Paint   FAQ: Flaking, Chipping, Cracking, Thinning Paint - Page 4 EmptyMon Aug 19, 2019 12:16 pm

My paint was OK until this year. Had my car in the shop for a good bit of work - the roof has started to chip off. Right where one would put one's had while using other hand to open car door. I think the problem in my case is interaction of brake fluid and paint finish. I'll have it repainted. I am pissed because I'm looking at spending another $300 - $500 that I shouldn't have had to.
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Flaking, Chipping, Cracking, Thinning Paint   FAQ: Flaking, Chipping, Cracking, Thinning Paint - Page 4 EmptyMon Aug 19, 2019 3:08 pm

Parking in a garage or outdoors?
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Flaking, Chipping, Cracking, Thinning Paint   FAQ: Flaking, Chipping, Cracking, Thinning Paint - Page 4 EmptyWed Aug 21, 2019 3:13 am

albertj wrote:
My paint was OK until this year.  Had my car in the shop for a good bit of work - the roof has started to chip off.  Right where one would put one's had while using other hand to open car door.  I think the problem in my case is interaction of brake fluid and paint finish.  I'll have it repainted.  I am pissed because I'm looking at spending another $300 - $500 that I shouldn't have had to.

Do you mean the mechanics at the shop you go to may have been the culprits of your paint issue.

And, how are you going to get away with just $300 - $500 to have it fixed. If your going to have the whole roof painted someones giving you a great deal.

I paid $800.00 to the most reputable body shop in the area to have my hood painted with PPG paint shortly after I bought the car. It was because the leading edge of the hood was showing the familiar signs of corrosion under the paint.
The owner of this shop was also an aircraft mechanic before he inherited his fathers business and knew how to properly strip and prep the aluminum and use the correct primer on it (zinc chromate) then paint and clearcoat.
Never had that area bubble up again. But it was pricey to get it done correctly.

But as they say:

Cheap Labor isn't Skilled and Skilled Labor isn't Cheap.
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Flaking, Chipping, Cracking, Thinning Paint   FAQ: Flaking, Chipping, Cracking, Thinning Paint - Page 4 EmptyThu Aug 22, 2019 12:37 pm

Rickw wrote:
albertj wrote:
My paint was OK until this year.  Had my car in the shop for a good bit of work - the roof has started to chip off.  Right where one would put one's had while using other hand to open car door.  I think the problem in my case is interaction of brake fluid and paint finish.  I'll have it repainted.  I am pissed because I'm looking at spending another $300 - $500 that I shouldn't have had to.

Do you mean the mechanics at the shop you go to may have been the culprits of your paint issue.

And, how are you going to get away with just $300 - $500 to have it fixed. If your going to have the whole roof painted someones giving you a great deal.

I paid $800.00 to the most reputable body shop in the area to have my hood painted with PPG paint shortly after I bought the car. It was because the leading edge of the hood was showing the familiar signs of corrosion under the paint.
The owner of this shop was also an aircraft mechanic before he inherited his fathers business and knew how to properly strip and prep the aluminum and use the correct primer on it (zinc chromate) then paint and clearcoat.
Never had that area bubble up again. But it was pricey to get it done correctly.

But as they say:

Cheap Labor isn't Skilled and Skilled Labor isn't Cheap.

The repaint will be north of the $500 - it's just that I am guessing this adds that much to it. The *paint* is a small fortune for these things.

I took it to the body shop yesterday, and am expecting a "number" from them today or tomorrow.
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