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highwaywarrior
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PostSubject: harmonic balancer   Thu Jan 09, 2014 2:32 pm

What are the symptoms of a hamonic balancer failing or failed?
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LARRY70GS
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PostSubject: Re: harmonic balancer   Thu Jan 09, 2014 3:14 pm

The harmonic balancer consists of an inner core and outer ring separated by rubber. When the rubber dries out and cracks, the 2 pieces can become misaligned, and in some extreme cases, they can separate completely and do some damage. Look for a pronounced wobble to the balancer, and it can make some knocking noise.

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highwaywarrior
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PostSubject: Re: harmonic balancer   Thu Jan 09, 2014 9:34 pm

Thanks Larry, I know I need to change another engine mount, I can't hear anything outside the car but, inside besides the rear mount collapsed making the car vibrate I can kinda hear something else. Would the balancer make the car seem like its missing? I figure I may as well change the balancer anyway
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highwaywarrior
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PostSubject: Re: harmonic balancer   Fri Jan 10, 2014 7:24 am

It almost soubds like a thud, probably magnified. H the fact that i need a mount, sometimes i dont hear it when i press thr gas
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LARRY70GS
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PostSubject: Re: harmonic balancer   Fri Jan 10, 2014 2:11 pm

highwaywarrior wrote:
Would the balancer make the car seem like its missing? I figure I may as well change the balancer anyway

I doubt it, but anything is possible. The pick up points for the crank sensor are on the back side of the balancer. Looking at the balancer with the engine running should show obvious wobble if it is separating. You might even see that by looking at it with the engine off.

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98 Riviera SC3800  All stock except gutted air box.
1970 Buick GS455 Stage1, TSP built 470BBB, 602HP/589TQ
Best MPH, 116.06 MPH, Best ET, 11.54
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highwaywarrior
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PostSubject: Re: harmonic balancer   Fri Jan 10, 2014 10:13 pm

Alright, thanks. I did change that sensor 6 months ago. Hm. Maybe she needs some.coils ir.. maf cleaned
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Mr.Riviera
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PostSubject: Re: harmonic balancer   Sat Jan 11, 2014 9:15 am

You can also take a look at the balancer with the car off and look for cracks in the rubber. With a bad balancer you can normally replicate any knocking noise by revving the motor a little and quickly letting off the gas. If the rubber is damaged the balancer outside will not be able to keep up with the motor rpm and you will get a clunk.

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highwaywarrior
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PostSubject: Re: harmonic balancer   Sun Jan 12, 2014 3:56 pm

Are u talking about the rubber in between the two grooves for both the sc belt and ac belt?
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PostSubject: Re: harmonic balancer   Sun Jan 12, 2014 5:10 pm

highwaywarrior wrote:
Are u talking about the rubber in between the two grooves for both the sc belt and ac belt?

Nope.He means looking at the balancer facing it square on. You will see visible cracking in the rubber or the rubber delaminating from the steel pulleys.DO NOT buy a Duralast balancer,they are total junk and you will be replacing it sooner than later. I'm telling you this from experience. Buy a good Dorman,pretty cheap at $70 bucks. I've had mine for 3 years and no problem.If you have the bucks Rockauto also sells AC Delcos for $130 and up.
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highwaywarrior
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PostSubject: Re: harmonic balancer   Sun Jan 12, 2014 5:25 pm

Awesome thank you. Yeah i never buy from autozone etc. Yup dorman or ac delco. Have any of you changed yours by yourself? Difficulty level?
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PostSubject: Re: harmonic balancer   Sun Jan 12, 2014 5:28 pm

highwaywarrior wrote:
Awesome thank you. Yeah i never buy from autozone etc. Yup dorman or ac delco. Have any of you changed yours by yourself? Difficulty level?

I have a 95.I dont know if the 96 and up is any different.It should be real similar
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Mr.Riviera
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PostSubject: Re: harmonic balancer   Sun Jan 12, 2014 10:44 pm

I do have a spare balancer from a 97 riv i could sell you if you end up needing one. i know for sure it came from the gm dealership and is ACDelco prem quality. Pulled it off a friends riv motor when it overheated and blew a gasket. its got less than 5k miles on it.

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PostSubject: Re: harmonic balancer   Thu Aug 21, 2014 9:10 pm

Has anyone else deleted their balancer?
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albertj
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PostSubject: Re: harmonic balancer   Thu Aug 21, 2014 9:58 pm

charlieRobinson wrote:
Has anyone else deleted their balancer?

you're kidding right?
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charlieRobinson
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PostSubject: Re: harmonic balancer   Thu Aug 21, 2014 10:34 pm

albertj wrote:

charlieRobinson wrote:
Has anyone else deleted their balancer?


you're kidding right?


No.... if youre running 2x timing chain with high RPMs you are supposed to remove it.  tavis 


http://www.zzperformance.com/blog/engine-balance-and-deleting-the-balance-shaft/
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th3fr4nchi5e
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PostSubject: Re: harmonic balancer   Fri Aug 22, 2014 12:04 am

Delete the harmonic balancer and shafts and your car will shake like all hell. They dont say to delete your balancer, but buy their balance shafts that save you a couple lbs of rotating mass for $270.

http://shop.zzperformance.com/store/p/590-Neutral-Balance-Shafts.aspx

ZZP said about the 90* V6 configuration:

"This creates an annoying harmonic that doesn’t affect engine balance or performance but it is noticeable in the car."

WHAT?! So two forces acting at the same time 90* apart wont affect engine balance? That doesn't make sense.

The balance shaft and harmonic balancer create a "harmonic" as they say which absorbs the shock of those 2 explosions in your engine. In a race car, you car delete this and it might be worth it, but it wont be daily drive-able. Im not saying their lightweight shafts aren't worth the money, if its not an object, but the stock shaft isnt going to be the reason for a lost race, outside of hundredths of seconds in a 1/4 mile. And its not going to harm your engine if its well oiled and all the bearings are good.

Obviously, they've done more research than me on this, but that tech article seems a little fudged up to make people want to buy their shafts.

The only way to know if they are worth it are to buy and try them. No reviews were given on their site.


Last edited by th3fr4nchi5e on Fri Aug 22, 2014 1:28 pm; edited 1 time in total
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charlieRobinson
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PostSubject: Re: harmonic balancer   Fri Aug 22, 2014 9:52 am

We are all god's children. Full of love and joy.


Last edited by charlieRobinson on Fri Aug 22, 2014 11:32 am; edited 1 time in total
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AA
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PostSubject: Re: harmonic balancer   Fri Aug 22, 2014 10:07 am

You did not delete your harmonic balancer, Charlie. Pics or it didn't happen...

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Abaddon
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PostSubject: Re: harmonic balancer   Fri Aug 22, 2014 10:09 am

Agreed. You had the Balance Shaft removed. ZZP article says nothing about removing the Harmonic Balancer.

EDIT: Your Harmonic Balancer is your Crank Pulley. You have no belts??
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charlieRobinson
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PostSubject: Re: harmonic balancer   Fri Aug 22, 2014 10:38 am

O, are they two different things? I thought they were the same.

I am a noob going on 3 years now, remember..
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AA
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PostSubject: Re: harmonic balancer   Fri Aug 22, 2014 10:50 am

study   <<< click me

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'98 SC Riviera • 268k miles • 298 HP/370 TQ • 0-60: 5.79s • ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 • 4087 lb • 20.1 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley • AL104 plugs • 180Ί t-stat • FWI w/K&N • 1.9:1 rockers • OR pushrods • LS6 valve springs • SLP headers • ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts • MaxAir shocks • Addco sway bars • UMI bushings • GM STB • Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s • F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus • SS lines • Brembo slotted discs • DHP tuned • Aeroforce • Hidden Hitch


'05 GTO • 49k miles • 0-60: 4.8s • 16.9 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun
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http://www.cardomain.com/ride/657082/4
charlieRobinson
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PostSubject: Re: harmonic balancer   Fri Aug 22, 2014 11:32 am

O yeah, so it was the balance shaft after all.

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PostSubject: Re: harmonic balancer   Fri Aug 22, 2014 4:21 pm

Usually the balance shaft (not harmonic balancer) is not removed - just disconnected. If you remove it, you also need to plug the oil galleys that lube it.
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PostSubject: Re: harmonic balancer   Fri Aug 22, 2014 4:38 pm

Removal = less weight, so I can see that. But I don't get why one would spend $250+ on a neutral shaft from ZZP.  puzzled Why not plug the oil galleys for free?

_________________
'98 SC Riviera • 268k miles • 298 HP/370 TQ • 0-60: 5.79s • ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 • 4087 lb • 20.1 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley • AL104 plugs • 180Ί t-stat • FWI w/K&N • 1.9:1 rockers • OR pushrods • LS6 valve springs • SLP headers • ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts • MaxAir shocks • Addco sway bars • UMI bushings • GM STB • Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s • F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus • SS lines • Brembo slotted discs • DHP tuned • Aeroforce • Hidden Hitch


'05 GTO • 49k miles • 0-60: 4.8s • 16.9 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun
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http://www.cardomain.com/ride/657082/4
charlieRobinson
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PostSubject: Re: harmonic balancer   Fri Aug 22, 2014 4:44 pm

Dunno. Bill just took mine out and plugged it up.

Runs smooth as can be.


P.S. Bill said he would meet us at Milan dragway if we ever wanna race him against his 9sec camaro 3gears 
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