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 Riviera no start

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mattsaari
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PostSubject: Riviera no start   Sun Jan 19, 2014 6:35 pm

So here's the story we had one day above freezing this winter and I took my car to the car wash with no problems then the next day I was driving stopped to put windshield washer fluid in my car and noticed the super charger belt threw off and that there was oil all over. Im thinking the oil may have possibly been from the under body from the car wash was but not 100% sure. Then later that day I went to start the car and it would not start and has not started sense.

so far I know I have fuel and injector pulse also tried starting fluid to see if it does anything with no luck. I also have spark but I am thinking the ignition timing may be off as when I crank it it almost sounds like it miss fires. So far I put in a crankshaft positioning sensor thinking that may be  the cause of the ignition timing being off if it is off. Next thing I am thinking of trying is the icm. I also wanted to ask if the tach should read something more then zero when the car is cranking because mine don't even move during cranking which is making me think it is the icm as that sends signal directly to the tach.  bonk  bonk 
             Thanks in advanced for any help!


Last edited by mattsaari on Sun Jan 19, 2014 6:49 pm; edited 1 time in total
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AA
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PostSubject: Re: Riviera no start   Sun Jan 19, 2014 6:42 pm

Unlikely it's the PCM. It's an expensive part to replace, and one of the parts that never goes bad on our cars. Need to find out where that oil is coming from.

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mattsaari
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PostSubject: Re: Riviera no start   Sun Jan 19, 2014 6:49 pm

AA wrote:
Unlikely it's the PCM. It's an expensive part to replace, and one of the parts that never goes bad on our cars. Need to find out where that oil is coming from.
opps sorry I was saying icm (ignition control module)
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AA
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PostSubject: Re: Riviera no start   Sun Jan 19, 2014 6:56 pm

oh, my bad. ICM, there's an idea. I don't think the tach normally moves during cranking.

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'98 SC Riviera • 268k miles • 298 HP/370 TQ • 0-60: 5.79s • ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 • 4087 lb • 20.1 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley • AL104 plugs • 180Ί t-stat • FWI w/K&N • 1.9:1 rockers • OR pushrods • LS6 valve springs • SLP headers • ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts • MaxAir shocks • Addco sway bars • UMI bushings • GM STB • Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s • F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus • SS lines • Brembo slotted discs • DHP tuned • Aeroforce • Hidden Hitch


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deekster_caddy
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PostSubject: Re: Riviera no start   Sun Jan 19, 2014 7:59 pm

So where is the oil coming from?

When the belt came off it's possible that it ripped a crank sensor or other connector off. The crank sensor is right between the water pump and SC tensioner, tucked back in against the block. It's hard to see, but if you get an inspection mirror down there you should be able to see the plug. It's easier to see from underneath the car.
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mattsaari
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PostSubject: Re: Riviera no start   Sun Jan 19, 2014 8:07 pm

deekster_caddy wrote:
So where is the oil coming from?

When the belt came off it's possible that it ripped a crank sensor or other connector off. The crank sensor is right between the water pump and SC tensioner, tucked back in against the block. It's hard to see, but if you get an inspection mirror down there you should be able to see the plug. It's easier to see from underneath the car.

You mean the crankshaft positioning sensor that's located behind the harmonic balancer? I replaced it and check the connector and it was fine. don't think it has anything to do with the belt as I put the belt back on at the gas station and drove it home and it ran great till next time I tried to start it.
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PostSubject: Re: Riviera no start   Sun Jan 19, 2014 9:45 pm

"Oil all over" doesn't really tell us much. How much oil? Where, exactly, is "all over"? And no, an oil leak shouldn't prevent it from running.

When you are cranking and it sounds like it's misfiring, that could simply be that the cylinders are flooded. Are there any codes in the PCM?

What's odd is that you drove it to it's final stop. That sort of indicates it could be related to the security system rather than a sensor. It could also be coincidental, like a fuel pump.

When you turn the key on, do you hear the fuel pump run for a second, then turn off? Can you tell if there is fuel pressure?
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mattsaari
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PostSubject: Re: Riviera no start   Sun Jan 19, 2014 10:27 pm

deekster_caddy wrote:
"Oil all over" doesn't really tell us much. How much oil? Where, exactly, is "all over"? And no, an oil leak shouldn't prevent it from running.

When you are cranking and it sounds like it's  misfiring, that could simply be that the cylinders are flooded. Are there any codes in the PCM?

What's odd is that you drove it to it's final stop. That sort of indicates it could be related to the security system rather than a sensor. It could also be coincidental, like a fuel pump.

When you turn the key on, do you hear the fuel pump run for a second, then turn off? Can you tell if there is fuel pressure?

-Hard to really say how much oil it hit the belt so there was a bit of a coating all over near the belt area.

-like I said it kinda pops it sat for 2 weeks so cant still be flooded. and not codes at this point I had one for a mis fire awhile ago but cleared from multiple drive cycles

-I think the security system stops fuel and I have 50 psi koeo and have injector pulse and smell that it is getting fuel and also tried starting fluid for the heck of it.

does anyone know for sure if the tach normally reads some kind of rpm during cranking? what's weird is im getting spark but just don't seem timed right everything points ckps but I just did that today with no help really seems like ignition is out of time so I think it may be the icm but idk if I would still get spark with a bad icm.
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PostSubject: Re: Riviera no start   Sun Jan 19, 2014 10:43 pm

Have you checked your oil level since you noticed the problem? If oil level is good, you have fuel pressure and spark, and you know that you have sufficient battery voltage, I would suspect fouled sparkplugs. Pull a couple plugs and inspect them. I would bet they are soaked with gas.
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mattsaari
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PostSubject: Re: Riviera no start   Mon Jan 20, 2014 12:12 am

Oil was a half quart low but i cannot confirm if it was just low or leaked out i will check plugs but if my inline spark tester was working plugs cant be completly fouled or it would have shown no spark.
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PostSubject: Re: Riviera no start   Mon Jan 20, 2014 9:13 am

You can still show energy going through the plug but have plugs that are a mess. Given the long term no-start situation, it's worth pulling them.

If you have spark and fuel, it should start... unless there is something wrong with the spark or fuel.

Are there any codes in the PCM?
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PostSubject: Re: Riviera no start   Mon Jan 20, 2014 9:34 pm

mattsaari wrote:


does anyone know for sure if the tach normally reads some kind of rpm during cranking?


I checked mine today and it doesn't move while cranking.

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mattsaari
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PostSubject: Re: Riviera no start   Fri Jan 24, 2014 4:14 pm

It can not start with fuel and spark... if the ignition timings off or valve timing it will just sputter like it is. And thanks for the info on the tach im sure it will read on the scanner so i will. Check on that and see what i find while cranking.
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PostSubject: Re: Riviera no start   Fri Jan 24, 2014 6:46 pm

Have you pulled a couple spark plug and inspected them yet? How old are your plug wires? I have heard many cars sound like they have a timing issue during cranking and a no start condition due to fouled plugs and bad wires.
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mattsaari
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PostSubject: Re: Riviera no start   Fri Jan 24, 2014 8:10 pm

Wires are new plugs were. Checked when wires were done.. i have a hard time beliving all 6 would foul but im gokng to take a look tommorow i would be happy if thats all it is ill update everyone when i get some time to look at it
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