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darinus
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PostSubject: Remote starter issue   Thu Jan 29, 2015 7:10 am

Good morning all,

I have a strange issue with my '96 Riv. I had installed a Python 1400xp Remote starter several years ago and the unit worked great. I even had it hooked up to Smartstart so I can start it with my Iphone.

Over the summer it randomly stopped working. The issue I am having is that the the car would start up fine, but seems as if the rpms slowly drop and the car stalls out. It usually runs for about 5 seconds. It then tries to start the car up 2 more times with no success. I have checked all the wiring and it they all seem to be correct. No blown fuses and the resistance in the Passkey is correct. I even disconnected it and the car wouldn't even engage.

Strange thing is that if I turn the ignition to the "on" position and command the RS, the car runs perfect.

My thoughts were that the RS main computer came to the end of its' life, so I picked up another Directed Electronics product, Avital 4103, and installed it and yet I have the exact same problem.

The shutdown diagnostics for both units show low rpm or voltage. The voltage when running is 14.5. The units were both hooked up to Voltage sense, and the Python worked well for years in this setting. So to rule that out, I ran the tach wire to the fuel injector and followed the Tach learn procedure several times, and I still have the same problem.

At this point, I believe it is the car itself. Any suggestions as to what could cause this issue?

1996 Riv, Supercharged, 202,000 miles.
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deekster_caddy
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PostSubject: Re: Remote starter issue   Thu Jan 29, 2015 12:48 pm

It sounds to me like the passkey/VATS is angry, and not turning on the fuel pump. Since the remote starters usually force bypass the ignition system, that's why it starts and runs. Here's something to try - leave the key in the ignition, turned off, and remote start it. Does it stay running? If so, however the unit is supposed to please the passkey system isn't working right.
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darinus
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PostSubject: Re: Remote starter issue   Thu Jan 29, 2015 1:36 pm

Good afternoon Deekster,

I the car wont start with the key in the ignition, only when the key is turned to the on position.
There is a resistor installed in place of the lock cylinder, and by that I mean that the 2 thin white wires were cut and a resistor was placed across them, bypassing the ignition Vats altogether.
Also, the car does sort of start and then it stalls out. I don't think the Vats will shut off a running engine.

Is it possible I have a faulty ignition switch?
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deekster_caddy
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PostSubject: Re: Remote starter issue   Thu Jan 29, 2015 2:26 pm

If the ignition switch were faulty you wouldn't be able to start the car with the key. With a bypass resistor, I would double-check that all of that wiring is still good and tight. You should test that circuit with an ohmmeter and see if it matches the chip in the key. If that circuit doesn't have the correct resistance, the VATS will cut the fuel pump, which sounds to me like what your problem is.

You could test a few of these things a couple different ways.
1) put a fuel pressure gauge on the fuel rail and remote start it. Does the fuel pressure go away before it dies?
2) jump/bypass the fuel pump relay (under the back seat) so the fuel pump is forced to run. Remote start it. Does it die? (I created a jumper wire to bypass that relay but you want to be comfortable with your electronics before you try something like this)

3) You should be able to hear or feel the fuel pump running if you listen from the trunk. If you open the trunk and feel the middle of the trunk floor, and remote start it you should hear/feel the fuel pump kicking on and off. Try with someone turning the key.
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darinus
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PostSubject: Re: Remote starter issue   Thu Jan 29, 2015 3:07 pm

Thank,

I will test the fuel system when I get home.

The vats isn't connected to the key at all, and I did verify the resistance and they both match up.

You stated you jumped the relay, is this a permanent solution in your vehicle or just a test method?

Thanks,

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deekster_caddy
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PostSubject: Re: Remote starter issue   Thu Jan 29, 2015 3:26 pm

darinus wrote:
You stated you jumped the relay, is this a permanent solution in your vehicle or just a test method?


No, this was something I did just for testing. I actually put some really bad gas in the tank by accident, and needed to pump the whole tank out, so I disconnected the fuel line at the rail under the hood and ran a hose down to a bucket to catch it all. You would never want to run the car this way long term, since the fuel pump would never shut off. It's another option that would tell you it will stay running if the fuel pump is running, that's all. I was just listing a few different ways you could test to see if the problem is that the VATS is shutting the fuel pump off.
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darinus
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PostSubject: Re: Remote starter issue   Thu Jan 29, 2015 3:30 pm

Gotcha. Okay, I will jump it out later tonight and let you know. If it the jumped relay does work, what would cause this condition? It cannot be the Vats since the Key is not providing any resistance to the system.
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deekster_caddy
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PostSubject: Re: Remote starter issue   Thu Jan 29, 2015 3:48 pm

darinus wrote:
Gotcha. Okay, I will jump it out later tonight and let you know. If it the jumped relay does work, what would cause this condition? It cannot be the Vats since the Key is not providing any resistance to the system.

Right, that's a good question. It all depends how the remote starter was installed. I can tell you that VATS/passkey will shut off the fuel pump, so it's somehow related to that, but beyond that it depends how the remote starter was wired up and I've never been on top of all the different methods.
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darinus
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PostSubject: Re: Remote starter issue   Thu Jan 29, 2015 4:22 pm

Hmm... I still find it hard to believe. I'll try to reconnect the white wires to the vats circuit.
I know I pulled out yu resistor and the starter just spins with no start up. Here I'm getting start up.
I'll be home in a few hours to look at it. I'll let you know.
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Abaddon
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PostSubject: Re: Remote starter issue   Thu Jan 29, 2015 5:54 pm

Nobody has mentioned yet if the Security light is on, off, or flashing....
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darinus
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PostSubject: Re: Remote starter issue   Thu Jan 29, 2015 6:05 pm

Hi,

The security light is not on
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Abaddon
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PostSubject: Re: Remote starter issue   Thu Jan 29, 2015 6:11 pm

darinus wrote:
The security light is not on



If you key on, and leave it on (without trying to start the car) for about 15 seconds, the light goes out?
If it goes out, the resistor in the column is fine, and you have a different issue at hand. I'd definitely try deeksters fuel pump trick....although I highly doubt that VATS is messing with you if the Security light isn't on. If the car still doesn't start by jumping the FP relay, you know you have a completely different monster to chase.

EDIT: I had previously failed to read that when you key on and RS the car, it runs perfect....I'd remove the entire system and see if the car runs that way (which probably isn't going to happen). That's just me. Saying that the car runs perfect after key on and RS points directly to the RS system IMO. Module through a module. I say forget what I've said above, and keep trying.

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darinus
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PostSubject: Re: Remote starter issue   Thu Jan 29, 2015 7:04 pm

Okay, here is where I am at.

Feeding 12vdc to the fuel pump relay and commanding the RS, the car starts right up and stays running. Success!

Now it can't be related to the key resistor since those wires are disconnected.

Does anyone know which of the ignition wires control the fuel pump? I suspect that wite is not connected properly.

Thanks again!
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darinus
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PostSubject: Re: Remote starter issue   Thu Jan 29, 2015 7:08 pm

Abaddon,

Just saw your edit. I had a unit installed a few years ago. The problem started on the original unit. I since replaced that unit with a brand new one and have the same problem.

These units have trouble codes and it tells me that the unit shut down due to low voltage.

That being said, and by jumping the fuel pump, I think there is a missing ignition wire.
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deekster_caddy
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PostSubject: Re: Remote starter issue   Sat Jan 31, 2015 11:18 am

It's really hard to help further because there are a few different ways a remote starter can be installed. It can go through the ignition system and VATS, or it can bypass that entirely and provide power directly to the PCM and ignition module. It could be that one of these tricks was used and so the alternator isn't being activated by the PCM, maybe that's why the trouble code for low voltage is coming up. Can you put a voltmeter on it when you remote start so we know if the alternator is working or not?

Because there are a few different ways to wire in a remote starter, I'm beyond my realm to provide any more info... at this point I'd say the installer needs to review what's going on, or somebody who installs the brand of remote starter you have. Sorry I can't help much more, but at least we are heading in the right direction!
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albertj
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PostSubject: Re: Remote starter issue   Thu Feb 05, 2015 1:02 am

What is the battery voltage - remove the rear seat, disconnect the batt, and use a voltmeter to read the voltage no-load. New battery should measure about 12.6v, the lower you are from that the worse the battery. 10v you can still start the car but you have a dead cell and need to replace battery. 11-12.2v you have a weak cell most likely. Point is that if your voltages are off neither the car's OE systems nor the RS will work correctly.

Albertj
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