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 bricked riv. UPDATE PROBLEM PERSISTS with new ign cylinder!!

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llamalor2112
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llamalor2112

Name : Evan
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bricked riv. UPDATE PROBLEM PERSISTS with new ign cylinder!! Empty
PostSubject: bricked riv. UPDATE PROBLEM PERSISTS with new ign cylinder!!   bricked riv. UPDATE PROBLEM PERSISTS with new ign cylinder!! EmptySat Aug 15, 2015 3:38 pm

Just got back from a 3700mile road trip in an 89 alltrac celica which encountered every bizarre problem known to man along the way and was excited about getting home to good ol reliable rivvy.

I went out and stuck the key and she fired right up but.....the key got stuck in the on position and all my dummy lights flashed on and off n on n off forever and the starter kept intermittently trying to engage and screech. Key CANNOT roll back or be removed from the ignition cylinder even after I removed the battery to kill the car. Now key is stuck and car cannot be ran. Can't even change gear into neutral because of where key is stuck so basically she is stuck where she's at very inconveniently...

Assuming this is just a stuck ignition cylinder? Sound right? That's about all I can figure....but why

:::::::::::Upate::::::::::::: see post on page 2...


Last edited by llamalor2112 on Fri Aug 28, 2015 8:47 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Abaddon
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Abaddon

Name : Scott
Location : Macomb, Michigan
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bricked riv. UPDATE PROBLEM PERSISTS with new ign cylinder!! Empty
PostSubject: Re: bricked riv. UPDATE PROBLEM PERSISTS with new ign cylinder!!   bricked riv. UPDATE PROBLEM PERSISTS with new ign cylinder!! EmptySat Aug 15, 2015 11:49 pm

Yep. Stuck Ignition Cylinder. It just happens, dude. This just happened to Charlie....
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charlieRobinson
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charlieRobinson

Name : Charlie
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bricked riv. UPDATE PROBLEM PERSISTS with new ign cylinder!! Empty
PostSubject: Re: bricked riv. UPDATE PROBLEM PERSISTS with new ign cylinder!!   bricked riv. UPDATE PROBLEM PERSISTS with new ign cylinder!! EmptySun Aug 16, 2015 12:13 pm

yeah..... sucks, man.. Mine made it 170k before it was replaced tho.

Didnt drill the whole cylinder but just the lip to disengage it so it would come out. put the new one in and bypassed the resistor chip functionality.
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llamalor2112
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llamalor2112

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bricked riv. UPDATE PROBLEM PERSISTS with new ign cylinder!! Empty
PostSubject: Re: bricked riv. UPDATE PROBLEM PERSISTS with new ign cylinder!!   bricked riv. UPDATE PROBLEM PERSISTS with new ign cylinder!! EmptySun Aug 16, 2015 1:11 pm

Did you bypass down below the dash at the plug harness I assume?
Also, does the whole wheel have to come off or can the cylinder be replaced more exclusively?

--------------------------
I guess the bigger question is this. Since it seems I have to remove the airbag, wheel, wheel lock, multiswitch, and all to change the cylinder (true?) Then is it any more or less challenging to install or not install another passkey cylinder? I'd think at that point with all that's gone into it it isn't any more or less of an inconvenience.
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charlieRobinson
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bricked riv. UPDATE PROBLEM PERSISTS with new ign cylinder!! Empty
PostSubject: Re: bricked riv. UPDATE PROBLEM PERSISTS with new ign cylinder!!   bricked riv. UPDATE PROBLEM PERSISTS with new ign cylinder!! EmptySun Aug 16, 2015 9:49 pm

llamalor2112 wrote:
Did you bypass down below the dash at the plug harness I assume?
Also, does the whole wheel have to come off or can the cylinder be replaced more exclusively?

--------------------------
I guess the bigger question is this. Since it seems I have to remove the airbag, wheel, wheel lock, multiswitch, and all to change the cylinder (true?) Then is it any more or less challenging to install or not install another passkey cylinder? I'd think at that point with all that's gone into it it isn't any more or less of an inconvenience.

yeah, bypassed it down low. i didnt have to remove wheel or airback or multswitch. just the 2 plastic clam shell piece to expose the cylinder. then drilled out the side of the lip to disengage the lock. twisted right out after that.

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llamalor2112
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llamalor2112

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bricked riv. UPDATE PROBLEM PERSISTS with new ign cylinder!! Empty
PostSubject: Re: bricked riv. UPDATE PROBLEM PERSISTS with new ign cylinder!!   bricked riv. UPDATE PROBLEM PERSISTS with new ign cylinder!! EmptyMon Aug 17, 2015 1:49 pm

So...I guess I'm confused. Did you replace the cylinder or just remove the internal tumbler that locks the key in place? Cuz wouldn't that leave they key free to move while driving?
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Abaddon
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bricked riv. UPDATE PROBLEM PERSISTS with new ign cylinder!! Empty
PostSubject: Re: bricked riv. UPDATE PROBLEM PERSISTS with new ign cylinder!!   bricked riv. UPDATE PROBLEM PERSISTS with new ign cylinder!! EmptyMon Aug 17, 2015 2:56 pm

He replaced the entire cylinder assembly (that's what locks up). There's no way around it. The cylinder teeth for the key get lodged and that's what causes it to lock up.

No clue why he bypassed the Security system......
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llamalor2112
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llamalor2112

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bricked riv. UPDATE PROBLEM PERSISTS with new ign cylinder!! Empty
PostSubject: Re: bricked riv. UPDATE PROBLEM PERSISTS with new ign cylinder!!   bricked riv. UPDATE PROBLEM PERSISTS with new ign cylinder!! EmptyMon Aug 17, 2015 2:59 pm

Cool. So then the cylinder can be replaced exclusively, yes? Every example of the swap I've seen online has suggested that the bolt which retains the cylinder in place must be accessed by removing the entire wheel assembly...?
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Abaddon
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Abaddon

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bricked riv. UPDATE PROBLEM PERSISTS with new ign cylinder!! Empty
PostSubject: Re: bricked riv. UPDATE PROBLEM PERSISTS with new ign cylinder!!   bricked riv. UPDATE PROBLEM PERSISTS with new ign cylinder!! EmptyMon Aug 17, 2015 3:24 pm

No. The cylinder on the Riv just "slides" into the upper column housing. Under normal conditions, you can very easily remove the cylinder. You just have to get it to the "RUN" position (with the key in it), and then depress the locking tab through a hole on the column housing itself. Then the cylinder pulls out. That's the cut and dry of it all. However, if the key is stuck in the cylinder, you're going to have to get creative. What happens is that the little tiny blades that move out of the way when you push the key in get stuck, or push out too far (the cylinder is worn), and prevents the cylinder from turning any further. You, sir, got the shit end of the stick. If the cylinder were stuck without the key in, you could drill a hole straight into the key slot until all the little blades fell out.

I'm not sure how Charlie did it, but I've never had to remove a stuck-in-Ignition key on any car. All the ones I've ever done were locked up in the OFF position.
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llamalor2112
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bricked riv. UPDATE PROBLEM PERSISTS with new ign cylinder!! Empty
PostSubject: Re: bricked riv. UPDATE PROBLEM PERSISTS with new ign cylinder!!   bricked riv. UPDATE PROBLEM PERSISTS with new ign cylinder!! EmptyMon Aug 17, 2015 3:45 pm

"You, sir, got the shit end of the stick." Always ha...

Alrighty, welp, my key is stuck in the run position so maybe if I'm lucky I can just slide the dang thing out. Either way, invaluable explanation. Helping immensely so thanks a zillion for that! cheers
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llamalor2112
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llamalor2112

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bricked riv. UPDATE PROBLEM PERSISTS with new ign cylinder!! Empty
PostSubject: Re: bricked riv. UPDATE PROBLEM PERSISTS with new ign cylinder!!   bricked riv. UPDATE PROBLEM PERSISTS with new ign cylinder!! EmptyMon Aug 17, 2015 3:54 pm

Ok, confirmed I can put the key in the run and start position (final two are available to me) so whichopening allows me to depress the lock for the cylinder to remove it?
bricked riv. UPDATE PROBLEM PERSISTS with new ign cylinder!! IMAG5319_zpsssdi6p0g
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LARRY70GS
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bricked riv. UPDATE PROBLEM PERSISTS with new ign cylinder!! Empty
PostSubject: Re: bricked riv. UPDATE PROBLEM PERSISTS with new ign cylinder!!   bricked riv. UPDATE PROBLEM PERSISTS with new ign cylinder!! EmptyMon Aug 17, 2015 4:16 pm

Pretty sure you need to remove the clam shell around the column.

_________________
98 Riviera SC3800  All stock except gutted air box.
1970 Buick GS455 Stage1, TSP built 470BBB, 602HP/589TQ
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Abaddon
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bricked riv. UPDATE PROBLEM PERSISTS with new ign cylinder!! Empty
PostSubject: Re: bricked riv. UPDATE PROBLEM PERSISTS with new ign cylinder!!   bricked riv. UPDATE PROBLEM PERSISTS with new ign cylinder!! EmptyMon Aug 17, 2015 4:26 pm

LARRY70GS wrote:
Pretty sure you need to remove the clam shell around the column.



Yep. You still need to take the upper and lower shrouds off.


Last edited by Abaddon on Mon Aug 17, 2015 4:30 pm; edited 1 time in total
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llamalor2112
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llamalor2112

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bricked riv. UPDATE PROBLEM PERSISTS with new ign cylinder!! Empty
PostSubject: Re: bricked riv. UPDATE PROBLEM PERSISTS with new ign cylinder!!   bricked riv. UPDATE PROBLEM PERSISTS with new ign cylinder!! EmptyMon Aug 17, 2015 4:28 pm

Aha! That makes more sense. I suppose then my biggest worry is not destroying the clam shell then as clip retained plastic pieces in my car have a history or just cracking apart
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charlieRobinson
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bricked riv. UPDATE PROBLEM PERSISTS with new ign cylinder!! Empty
PostSubject: Re: bricked riv. UPDATE PROBLEM PERSISTS with new ign cylinder!!   bricked riv. UPDATE PROBLEM PERSISTS with new ign cylinder!! EmptyMon Aug 17, 2015 11:23 pm

you are super lucky if you are already in run position. it should slide right out when you press the tab in the back after you take shell off.

My key wasnt stuck in the ignition but i couldnt turn it to run either. twas a bitch.
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llamalor2112
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bricked riv. UPDATE PROBLEM PERSISTS with new ign cylinder!! Empty
PostSubject: Re: bricked riv. UPDATE PROBLEM PERSISTS with new ign cylinder!!   bricked riv. UPDATE PROBLEM PERSISTS with new ign cylinder!! EmptyTue Aug 18, 2015 12:24 am

I would seem to be very lucky in that regard. Key has movemt between run and start. Just not off. Is there a secret to the shell beside the 3 screws? Just pull into two halves .mine feels like that wants to snap it.
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charlieRobinson
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charlieRobinson

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bricked riv. UPDATE PROBLEM PERSISTS with new ign cylinder!! Empty
PostSubject: Re: bricked riv. UPDATE PROBLEM PERSISTS with new ign cylinder!!   bricked riv. UPDATE PROBLEM PERSISTS with new ign cylinder!! EmptyTue Aug 18, 2015 9:50 am

if it doesnt come off easy it means you still have another screw or 2 to go. keep looking
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llamalor2112
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bricked riv. UPDATE PROBLEM PERSISTS with new ign cylinder!! Empty
PostSubject: Re: bricked riv. UPDATE PROBLEM PERSISTS with new ign cylinder!!   bricked riv. UPDATE PROBLEM PERSISTS with new ign cylinder!! EmptyFri Aug 28, 2015 8:46 pm

New ignition cylinder installed, wired up, new chip key cut. Car starts, SAME PROBLEM. KEY WILL NOT ROLL BACK OR DISENGAGE.

What is this???

Now won't start, won't roll back, and security light just flashes indefinitely

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bricked riv. UPDATE PROBLEM PERSISTS with new ign cylinder!! Empty
PostSubject: Re: bricked riv. UPDATE PROBLEM PERSISTS with new ign cylinder!!   bricked riv. UPDATE PROBLEM PERSISTS with new ign cylinder!! Empty

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