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 Write-Up: Sequential Turn Signals

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IBx1
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Sequential Turn Signals   Fri Mar 14, 2008 9:24 am

How much wiring is involved with this install? If there's anything going from the front fusebox to the rear it's out, but if it's just simple things around the taillamp I may consider doing this. Also, how would you go around making the different light bulb fit?

Could you post some pics later? Show some details of exactly what I'd have to do. I think I'd like this one...
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Sequential Turn Signals   Fri Mar 14, 2008 9:29 am

I took some pics of the install. It's easy to do once you see how everything works. Everything (almost) modified at the rear of the vehicle. Here's a basic before-and-after wiring diagram:



Here's the stock wiring/lamps with lens piece removed (sorry, lamps are hiding behind bumper cover:



The flasher is located under the dash. The kit includes a new one to replace it:



Back side of lens piece, right side. Note middle hole is smaller. This is because the center bulb is not a signal lamp, it's only a parking light:



Dremel out the center hole (roughly 1" dia) so that supplied signal bulb can fit:



Drill the mounting holes:



New signal bulb mounted:



Here's the old parking lamp. It gets cut out and discarded:



Showing which wires are cut on the left side (same on right):



Almost finished (see first page of thread for Codith's pics of wiring):



Tying down wires before reinstalling rear lens. It looks like a mess, but there are also wires for the trailer lamp harness:



I just tucked the sequential flash module under the bumper cover. I think it should be all right there. If I find it hanging under the car one day, I'll consider using some adhesive foam tape.

_________________
'98 SC Riviera 268k miles 298 HP/370 TQ 0-60: 5.79s ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 4087 lb 20.1 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley AL104 plugs 180 t-stat FWI w/K&N 1.9:1 rockers OR pushrods LS6 valve springs SLP headers ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts MaxAir shocks Addco sway bars UMI bushings GM STB Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus SS lines Brembo slotted discs DHP tuned Aeroforce Hidden Hitch


'05 GTO 49k miles 0-60: 4.8s 16.9 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun


Last edited by AA on Fri Mar 14, 2008 1:59 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Sequential Turn Signals   Fri Mar 14, 2008 1:57 pm

Did the kit come with wiring instructions?

I think I see that you have to cut the "A wires" for the inner and outer red bulbs, completely cut the middle red bulb out, and I'm guessing solder the new 3rd bulb onto the two wires that were cut from the middle one? Do the A wires need to be used again, or are all the bulbs just on 2 wires?

Also, do you absolutely have to replace the flasher? Is it easy to get to, as in there are no panels that need to be removed?
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Sequential Turn Signals   Fri Mar 14, 2008 2:21 pm

They did include very thorough instructions, but it's lots of reading. They think you can do it in an hour, but I had to read their instructions for an hour before I knew what was going on. Codith's pictures helped me out more.

So I created a wiring diagram and put in my above post. Their instructions provided a lot of words, but not a whole lot of useful pictures. I think my diagram makes it easier than trying to explain. I had to read their instructions over, and over, and over... you can tell the person who wrote them was not a visual person. Some people might prefer it this way, though.

The "A" wires are cut on each side. One of these (from flasher unit) goes to the input of the sequential module. Doesn't matter which one because they are the same wire. The module has three outputs per side: one for inner, center, and outer lamps. These get connected to the inner and outer OEM lamps, and to the supplied center signal bulb on each side. All of the parking lamp wiring remains intact, except for the center bulb, which is cut and then reconnected to the new bulb.

The instructions say to replace the flasher. They claim it makes the sequencer module function correctly. It is very easy to get to. 3 screws under the driver side dash. It only takes a minute.

_________________
'98 SC Riviera 268k miles 298 HP/370 TQ 0-60: 5.79s ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 4087 lb 20.1 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley AL104 plugs 180 t-stat FWI w/K&N 1.9:1 rockers OR pushrods LS6 valve springs SLP headers ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts MaxAir shocks Addco sway bars UMI bushings GM STB Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus SS lines Brembo slotted discs DHP tuned Aeroforce Hidden Hitch


'05 GTO 49k miles 0-60: 4.8s 16.9 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Sequential Turn Signals   Fri Mar 14, 2008 2:45 pm

Aaron, If I had known you were doing this already, I would have warned you. But watch out for the aftermarket bulb sockets pinching the wire against the sharp edge of the socket and the body of the car when you tighten the assembly back in. Both Jack and myself had this issue and it looks like you have the same sockets. It didn't necessarily short right away but if it does, you'll probably blow the fuse or if you're unlucky like I was, you might blow one of the SCRs in the module and have to request a warranty replacement.

If you have that issue, just remove the socket, take the stuff out of the socket and grind that lip off but don't go to far as to grind out the bottom edge that retains the spring and ground ring. That as well as double-heat-shrinking it just to be extra safe, fixed that problem beautifully.

Either way, if you decide not to address it now, just keep an eye on it after driving and such because a wrong bump could potentially make it short as is. If it blows the fuse or just remains shorted, you will likely see the hazard indicator illuminate on the dash every time you hit the brakes or use your turn signal. That's telling you its not working. I just about drove clear through Indiana not knowing why that was coming on.
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Sequential Turn Signals   Fri Mar 14, 2008 3:03 pm

Wow, all this makes me want to just forget even attempting this. I know you all are trying to help but looking at this having not bought the kit yet it makes it look like a major pain in the ass. Hence why I hate modding our cars, every damn thing has to be custom fabricated...My luck I do it and have no parking lamps.
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Sequential Turn Signals   Fri Mar 14, 2008 3:38 pm

Thanks, Codith. The instructions actually mentioned the possibility of contact with the bulb on some cars. I noticed slight contact when I installed the rear lens. Thinking I could use a ball peen hammer to make indentations behind the bulb housings.

_________________
'98 SC Riviera 268k miles 298 HP/370 TQ 0-60: 5.79s ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 4087 lb 20.1 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley AL104 plugs 180 t-stat FWI w/K&N 1.9:1 rockers OR pushrods LS6 valve springs SLP headers ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts MaxAir shocks Addco sway bars UMI bushings GM STB Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus SS lines Brembo slotted discs DHP tuned Aeroforce Hidden Hitch


'05 GTO 49k miles 0-60: 4.8s 16.9 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun
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AA
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Sequential Turn Signals   Fri Mar 14, 2008 3:56 pm

Shintsu wrote:
Wow, all this makes me want to just forget even attempting this. I know you all are trying to help but looking at this having not bought the kit yet it makes it look like a major pain in the ass. Hence why I hate modding our cars, every damn thing has to be custom fabricated...My luck I do it and have no parking lamps.

Looks can be deceiving. This was far from being a pain in the ass. This was a "start it after dinner" project that took me about 2 hours. I could do it again in 1 hour. Tools needed: screwdriver, Dremel, drill, crimper... that's it. It wasn't difficult, and "our car" is actually one of the vehicles that needed less modification compared to say, a Camaro or T-Bird. This was less work to install than my made-to-fit trailer hitch (6 bolts).

When you want special features that the OEM doesn't offer, it's not going to be a plug-and-play with any vehicle. There are just some laws of physics and logic that can't be overcome if you want to do something like this. If it was a Mustang, there would be no easier way. This is the same kit they use, and they spend the same amount of time installing it.

The kit is designed about as well as I could expect for the needed result at the price paid. If this mod seems intimidating to install, I would seriously consider whether or not you want to modify any type of car in any way. An alternator swap on a Honda can be a much more involved project.

_________________
'98 SC Riviera 268k miles 298 HP/370 TQ 0-60: 5.79s ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 4087 lb 20.1 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley AL104 plugs 180 t-stat FWI w/K&N 1.9:1 rockers OR pushrods LS6 valve springs SLP headers ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts MaxAir shocks Addco sway bars UMI bushings GM STB Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus SS lines Brembo slotted discs DHP tuned Aeroforce Hidden Hitch


'05 GTO 49k miles 0-60: 4.8s 16.9 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Sequential Turn Signals   Fri Mar 14, 2008 4:39 pm

turtleman wrote:
Aaron, If I had known you were doing this already, I would have warned you. But watch out for the aftermarket bulb sockets pinching the wire against the sharp edge of the socket and the body of the car when you tighten the assembly back in. Both Jack and myself had this issue and it looks like you have the same sockets. It didn't necessarily short right away but if it does, you'll probably blow the fuse or if you're unlucky like I was, you might blow one of the SCRs in the module and have to request a warranty replacement.

If you have that issue, just remove the socket, take the stuff out of the socket and grind that lip off but don't go to far as to grind out the bottom edge that retains the spring and ground ring. That as well as double-heat-shrinking it just to be extra safe, fixed that problem beautifully.

Either way, if you decide not to address it now, just keep an eye on it after driving and such because a wrong bump could potentially make it short as is. If it blows the fuse or just remains shorted, you will likely see the hazard indicator illuminate on the dash every time you hit the brakes or use your turn signal. That's telling you its not working. I just about drove clear through Indiana not knowing why that was coming on.

SNAP! I forgot about that! Sorry, it's been awhile. I went to O'Reilly's and bought a pair of sockets that are shorter and that fixed the problem.
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Sequential Turn Signals   Fri Mar 14, 2008 7:34 pm

Just out of curiosity, would maybe trying an OEM light socket like one from one of the other locations work? Just cut the slots into the light assembly and lock it in like the others? Is the OEM socket shorter than the socket supplied with the kit?
By the way, great job with the dremel tool Aaron!
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Sequential Turn Signals   Fri Mar 14, 2008 11:23 pm

Hmmm, got another question...

How do I take off the taillight? Do I need to take off the gray plastic thing surrounding the lock for the trunk? Those twisty anchor things on either side of it inside the trunk? Any hidden screws? I like to look at the wiring and get a feel for what I'd be working for before making decisions. Usually, I can look at something for 10 minutes and figure out most of how it works.
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Sequential Turn Signals   Sat Mar 15, 2008 1:10 am

Quote :
Is the OEM socket shorter than the socket supplied with the kit?

Yes, the OEMs use a 90 bend, making them a lot shorter.

Quote :

How do I take off the taillight? Do I need to take off the gray plastic thing surrounding the lock for the trunk? Those twisty anchor things on either side of it inside the trunk? Any hidden screws? I like to look at the wiring and get a feel for what I'd be working for before making decisions. Usually, I can look at something for 10 minutes and figure out most of how it works.

There are two screws on the plastic piece inside the rear wall of the trunk. Remove them and the 5 plastic fasteners holding it in. Remove the plastic piece. Remove the two visible plastic wing nut/hooks from each side of the wall. Pull open the carpet and loosen the plastic wing nuts. The lens piece will then come out. Be careful.

_________________
'98 SC Riviera 268k miles 298 HP/370 TQ 0-60: 5.79s ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 4087 lb 20.1 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley AL104 plugs 180 t-stat FWI w/K&N 1.9:1 rockers OR pushrods LS6 valve springs SLP headers ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts MaxAir shocks Addco sway bars UMI bushings GM STB Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus SS lines Brembo slotted discs DHP tuned Aeroforce Hidden Hitch


'05 GTO 49k miles 0-60: 4.8s 16.9 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Sequential Turn Signals   Sat Mar 15, 2008 8:45 am

Alright, I'll be sure not to let the 1-piece lens get any cracks on it.
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Sequential Turn Signals   Sun Mar 16, 2008 3:43 pm

99Rivman wrote:
Just out of curiosity, would maybe trying an OEM light socket like one from one of the other locations work? Just cut the slots into the light assembly and lock it in like the others? Is the OEM socket shorter than the socket supplied with the kit?

That's an idea. I think it would work, but you would need to cut slots for the bayonet style mount to work. I don't think most are up this level with the Dremel.

Instead, I just modified the new supplied bulbs with the Dremel, so the wires can exit the side instead of the back. I also Dremeled out the area directly behind the bulbs so there is less pinching.

Btw, this pinching issue was directly responsible for the lights not flashing when I unlocked the car with remote. I found this out when night came and I had no rear parking lamps! Both sides had worn through the insulation and causes shorts, blowing the L & R fuses!

I fixed with electrical tape and now there are no problems.

Coincidently, I had the R rear inner turn signal bulb go out yesterday, and I like how the sequential module responds to the situation. It will flash both of the good bulbs at the same time, so you will notice backing up that there is no sequencing.

Having this system makes one replace burnt out bulbs immediately!

_________________
'98 SC Riviera 268k miles 298 HP/370 TQ 0-60: 5.79s ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 4087 lb 20.1 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley AL104 plugs 180 t-stat FWI w/K&N 1.9:1 rockers OR pushrods LS6 valve springs SLP headers ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts MaxAir shocks Addco sway bars UMI bushings GM STB Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus SS lines Brembo slotted discs DHP tuned Aeroforce Hidden Hitch


'05 GTO 49k miles 0-60: 4.8s 16.9 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun
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PostSubject: sequential taillights   Tue Jun 03, 2008 5:51 pm

anyone know where i can find the sequential taillights at?
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Sequential Turn Signals   Tue Jun 03, 2008 6:19 pm

try the search tool it will work wounders
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Sequential Turn Signals   Tue Jun 03, 2008 7:40 pm

no luck with it. i got a bunch of parts suppliers but none with lights for a riviera
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Sequential Turn Signals   Tue Jun 03, 2008 8:01 pm

See page 1 of this thread.

_________________
'98 SC Riviera 268k miles 298 HP/370 TQ 0-60: 5.79s ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 4087 lb 20.1 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley AL104 plugs 180 t-stat FWI w/K&N 1.9:1 rockers OR pushrods LS6 valve springs SLP headers ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts MaxAir shocks Addco sway bars UMI bushings GM STB Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus SS lines Brembo slotted discs DHP tuned Aeroforce Hidden Hitch


'05 GTO 49k miles 0-60: 4.8s 16.9 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Sequential Turn Signals   Wed Jun 04, 2008 10:02 am

Think I'm gonna give this one a try. It looks super classy.
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Sequential Turn Signals   Wed Jun 04, 2008 4:08 pm

Hey AA, the circle with notches could be cut with the Dremel, with an abrasive cutting wheel. And the carbide cutter shown in the picture. The thing to do is trace an existing hole, copy the trace onto the small hole, use the cutting wheel to cut the squarish corners of the notches and use the carbide cutter to finish the round parts.

Has to be close, does not have ot be perfect.

Only other problem, though is that the filaments in the middle holw won't line up properly with the focal point of the parabolic mirror reflctor. I am not sure this is a problem. I suspect, however, there is a way to finesse it - for instance by using a different (smaller) size dual filament lamp. Seen 'em in the auto parts stores but don't know the numbers.

Albertj

PS - thinking about it, I wonder what GM did with the $0.99 they saved by not using a dual filament builb and deeper parabola in the center lens in the first place.

On the other hand this set up would allow one to put a yellow light in the center position on each side and make it blink by itself for turns, to meet certain standards. A truck marker lens/reflector assembly could, for insance, be made to work but would look "homemade.' I would not do it unless forced. Cutting out a lens sectoin and forming a clear replacement appeals to me more, then I could use red/yellow interior lenses or bulbs like on some of the '60s Chryslers.
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Sequential Turn Signals   Wed Jun 04, 2008 5:28 pm

Quote :
Hey AA, the circle with notches could be cut with the Dremel, with an abrasive cutting wheel. And the carbide cutter shown in the picture. The thing to do is trace an existing hole, copy the trace onto the small hole, use the cutting wheel to cut the squarish corners of the notches and use the carbide cutter to finish the round parts.

I did use a Dremel tool with steel cutter. The residue from the rubber gasket makes a natural template to cut out (see picture):



Then I just used the bulb as a gage to check the hole size, cutting more where the bulb touches the edge. Easy way to make a perfect circle fast!

I can see no problems with reflection from the middle bulb. It looks identical to the other two from any angle behind the car.

_________________
'98 SC Riviera 268k miles 298 HP/370 TQ 0-60: 5.79s ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 4087 lb 20.1 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley AL104 plugs 180 t-stat FWI w/K&N 1.9:1 rockers OR pushrods LS6 valve springs SLP headers ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts MaxAir shocks Addco sway bars UMI bushings GM STB Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus SS lines Brembo slotted discs DHP tuned Aeroforce Hidden Hitch


'05 GTO 49k miles 0-60: 4.8s 16.9 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Sequential Turn Signals   Wed Jun 04, 2008 10:08 pm

Hmmm... what I meant was that with the grinder wheel you could cut the hole for the middle socket same as the ones on either side of it then use same bulb in all three. But the problem would remain of the filaments in the bulb not being in the right place in the reflector - and agian I am not sure how big a deal that is.

I like the way the bulbs are positioned because when I am backing into a parking space, like a garage, and there is a flat wall behind me, with the brake lights on a big "X" appears on the wall, in red (from the stoplights) when it is time to stop backing up. I find that convenient.

Albertj
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Sequential Turn Signals   Wed Jun 04, 2008 10:22 pm

i have a question that probably was answered but im lazy. when you brake, does the regular brake light come on or is it sequential like the turn signal?
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Sequential Turn Signals   Wed Jun 04, 2008 11:30 pm

sequences to the solid state and stays solid from what I understand
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Sequential Turn Signals   Thu Jun 05, 2008 12:05 am

??
so youre saying it sequences as a turn signal but when you are braking it sequences into a solid light?
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