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 Write-Up: Sequential Turn Signals

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AA
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Sequential Turn Signals   Thu Jun 05, 2008 8:15 am

See page 1 of this thread.

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'98 SC Riviera 281k miles 298 HP/370 TQ 0-60: 5.79s ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 4087 lb 20.1 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley AL104 plugs 180 t-stat FWI w/K&N 1.9:1 rockers OR pushrods LS6 valve springs SLP headers ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts MaxAir shocks Addco sway bars UMI bushings GM STB Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s F-body calipers
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^^^ SOLD ^^^ frown

'05 GTO 85k miles 0-60: 4.8s 16.9 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun


'70 Olds Ninety-Eight Holiday Coupe 116k miles 455 Rocket V8
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Sequential Turn Signals   Thu Jun 05, 2008 11:38 am

lol reading really is fundamental

i want them really bad but i dont want to sequence when i stop, just turning. all that blinking while sitting still would attract some of the ''wrong'' attention to me
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Sequential Turn Signals   Thu Jun 05, 2008 11:48 am

Sorry, I don't like repeating myself, especially in the same thread. Here are the quotes from pages 1-2:

AA wrote:
does the functionality of the lights remain the same other than the turn signal operation?

turtleman wrote:
The lights will also sequence under braking and with the hazard lights.

AA wrote:
Under braking? WTF? Tell me there's a way around this! I'd prefer they not sequence with hazards, either. Can they be wired for turn signal only?

turtleman wrote:
It just occurred to me that you may be thinking of this the wrong way. To clarify, When you press the brakes, The lights sequence on and stay on until you let go of the brake. They don't keep sequencing while you hold the brake. That could be discerning.

_________________
'98 SC Riviera 281k miles 298 HP/370 TQ 0-60: 5.79s ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 4087 lb 20.1 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley AL104 plugs 180 t-stat FWI w/K&N 1.9:1 rockers OR pushrods LS6 valve springs SLP headers ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts MaxAir shocks Addco sway bars UMI bushings GM STB Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus SS lines Brembo slotted discs DHP tuned Aeroforce Hidden Hitch

^^^ SOLD ^^^ frown

'05 GTO 85k miles 0-60: 4.8s 16.9 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun


'70 Olds Ninety-Eight Holiday Coupe 116k miles 455 Rocket V8
Because cool


'95 Celica 152k miles 0-60: yes
Because free
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Sequential Turn Signals   Thu Jun 05, 2008 2:00 pm

If you wanted to you could make a control circuit to make the lights not sequence when braking.

However, I doubt it's necessary.

If for some reason you still think it's necessary, the rest of this posting is some 'thinking out loud' about how this works that you could consider as you figure out how to do this.

In the mechanical sequencer used on the late '60s cougars and t-birds, the turn signal system has five electromechanical parts: the turn signal switch in the steering column, a turn signal relay under the dash, a directional relay, an emergency relay, and a motor-driven sequencer in the driver's side trunk under the mat or behind the backseat depending on if it's a Cougar or a Bird. The 1967 system also had an emergency relay and turn indicator relay under the dash. The electronic system you guys are looking at is kind of a replacement just for the sequencer.

Basically, the electromechanical system works thjs way: the directional lever actuates the turn signal switch, which closes circuits feeding power to the corresponding bank of lights. Power for the lights, in turn, is fed through the turn signal relay to the sequencer. The sequencer has three cams and motors; the contraption depresses switches corresponding to the inboard, center, and outboard tail lights. Power is then fed through the emergency relay (if the emergency switch is on it disconnects all but center light for Cougars and for T-Birds connects all lights together) and then to the directional relay. This two-sectioned (right and left) relay routes power through to the selected bank of lights. Here is a key: since brake lights are not sequenced, the directional relay allows all lights to turn on simultaneously when you step on the brake and feed power thru the brake light switch. But when the turn signal switch is actuated, the brake light power feed is disconnected and the turn signal feed is activated to allow the directional signal to override the brake lights.

So the problem is that the electronic gizmo you got replaces the sequencer but not the ancillary equipment, and the wiring (as indicated in the diagram) does not support a brake signal override of the sequencer.

What I'd problably try is a relay driven override of the sequencer, protected by a set of IN4004 diodes, to turn all the brake lights on if you step on the brake. Might need 2-3 relays under the dash and a couple at the sequencer.

Could get some good hints from a late 60s (like, 1969) Cougar or TBird service manual.

Albertj


Last edited by albertj on Fri Jun 06, 2008 9:22 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Sequential Turn Signals   Thu Jun 05, 2008 2:28 pm

Relays would work, plus a LOT of extra wiring. Really, I can't see why you wouldn't want the brakes to sequence once when applied. It's very quick and hardly noticeable.

_________________
'98 SC Riviera 281k miles 298 HP/370 TQ 0-60: 5.79s ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 4087 lb 20.1 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley AL104 plugs 180 t-stat FWI w/K&N 1.9:1 rockers OR pushrods LS6 valve springs SLP headers ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts MaxAir shocks Addco sway bars UMI bushings GM STB Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus SS lines Brembo slotted discs DHP tuned Aeroforce Hidden Hitch

^^^ SOLD ^^^ frown

'05 GTO 85k miles 0-60: 4.8s 16.9 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun


'70 Olds Ninety-Eight Holiday Coupe 116k miles 455 Rocket V8
Because cool


'95 Celica 152k miles 0-60: yes
Because free
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Sequential Turn Signals   Thu Jun 05, 2008 3:16 pm

Agreed... The whole reason I bought the kit was to see it sequence. Besides there's no need to mod a mod. rolleyes
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Sequential Turn Signals   Fri Jun 06, 2008 9:33 am

I am told that the issue with the TBirds and Cougars is that the sequencer would quit or the brake light relay would fail.

Albertj
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Sequential Turn Signals   Fri Jun 06, 2008 10:16 am

if someone was REALLY good at wiring could they hit up a local Radio Shack and buy all the wiring, relays, and what not for a little cheaper?
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Sequential Turn Signals   Fri Jun 06, 2008 10:37 am

If you're suggesting building the entire sequencer out of Radio Shack parts, good luck. First, you'd need the schematics. Next there's the time needed to solder all the boards. I think the cost of parts would exceed what foxthundercats is charging, and would be far less reliable. The way they use solid state circuits and seal everything in epoxy is pretty slick.

But you should try it so I can call you a nerd.

_________________
'98 SC Riviera 281k miles 298 HP/370 TQ 0-60: 5.79s ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 4087 lb 20.1 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley AL104 plugs 180 t-stat FWI w/K&N 1.9:1 rockers OR pushrods LS6 valve springs SLP headers ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts MaxAir shocks Addco sway bars UMI bushings GM STB Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus SS lines Brembo slotted discs DHP tuned Aeroforce Hidden Hitch

^^^ SOLD ^^^ frown

'05 GTO 85k miles 0-60: 4.8s 16.9 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun


'70 Olds Ninety-Eight Holiday Coupe 116k miles 455 Rocket V8
Because cool


'95 Celica 152k miles 0-60: yes
Because free
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Sequential Turn Signals   Fri Jun 06, 2008 10:41 am

It shouldn't be that difficult to do with a bunch of 5-prong lighting relays. A couple of relays in line that either use the sequencer or bypass it.
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Sequential Turn Signals   Fri Jun 06, 2008 4:52 pm

Derek: Yep.

And if you have access to a repair manual for a late 60s TBird or Cougar (public library maybe) you'll get ideas for how to wire that circuit. The solid state sequencer replaces the mechanical sequencer that Ford used to use. Add a few relays, and wha-la.

Here is a piece from an old ford manual:

http://www.tbirdranch.com/sequencer.html

After looking at it, I think something can be done combining solid state and relays for less $ and less complexity than is shown there. It will be a while before I can take a detailed look at it, though.

That simpler way is probably to replace the single filament bulbs with duals, then have relays that put the sequencer in circuit only when one or another turn signal is activated. Would need a diode-protected 2-conductor wire from under the column back to the trunk (run it to the cowl, to the floor and under the driverside running board, just like the auxiliary cellphone power/antenna hookup) and back in the trunk, put a relay in for each of the 4 outboard bulbs. When relay is not energized, tie the directional filaments for all the bulbs 'hot' together and have a relay that gives power to the sequencer - just don't power it up when the turn signal lever is neutral - then the brakes and emergency flashers will run as designed. The bulbs will not sequence because sequencer will be off and out-of-circuit. When a turn signal is on, the power from the turn signal line closes one or another relay that enables the sequencer to power up, and at the same time closes other relays that pull the outboard bulbs onto the circuits switched by the sequencer.

scratch

(added 9 August 2008) Come to think of it, this could be powered via tapping the circuit that lights the cornering lights - could hook it up without going into/under the steering column at all, taking a diode-protected 'hot' line from each cornering light to energize each of the relays mentioned above.

Albertj


Last edited by albertj on Sat Aug 09, 2008 10:01 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Sequential Turn Signals   Fri Jun 06, 2008 10:08 pm

I think that would work, but the bulbs already use 2-filaments stock. Only the center one is a single filament - that's why it gets replaced.

_________________
'98 SC Riviera 281k miles 298 HP/370 TQ 0-60: 5.79s ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 4087 lb 20.1 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley AL104 plugs 180 t-stat FWI w/K&N 1.9:1 rockers OR pushrods LS6 valve springs SLP headers ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts MaxAir shocks Addco sway bars UMI bushings GM STB Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus SS lines Brembo slotted discs DHP tuned Aeroforce Hidden Hitch

^^^ SOLD ^^^ frown

'05 GTO 85k miles 0-60: 4.8s 16.9 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun


'70 Olds Ninety-Eight Holiday Coupe 116k miles 455 Rocket V8
Because cool


'95 Celica 152k miles 0-60: yes
Because free
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Sequential Turn Signals   Wed Jun 18, 2008 3:44 pm

Well got my package from Canada today. smile Looks like I have 2 smaller control bricks instead of the one. If I've got time this weekend I'll tackle it and update ya'll on how it went.
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Sequential Turn Signals   Tue Jul 08, 2008 11:36 pm

Got it all wired up and soldered together. I must say it's a very beautiful thing.
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Sequential Turn Signals   Wed Jul 09, 2008 9:52 pm

how long did it take? when i get back from grayling in a few weeks im getting a set. hell taking the light off itself was a bitch so hopefully changing that stuff out wont be too bad
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Sequential Turn Signals   Thu Jul 10, 2008 1:36 am

It took about two and a half hours but I mocked up the wiring to make sure all the connections were where they were supposed to be, unhooked everything to drill the bulb hole, then reconnected everything and soldered the wiring together.

I took my sweet time and just enjoyed the process. I'm sure you could get it done in an hour and a half.
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Sequential Turn Signals   Mon Jul 21, 2008 6:13 pm

im going to order mine next week or this weekend when i go back home but who knows..im no whiz at wiring so it might take me 3 or 4 hours lol
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Sequential Turn Signals   Mon Jul 21, 2008 6:55 pm

seems like alot of work for some turn signals but i like it and will soon get the kit when i get some money
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Sequential Turn Signals   Mon Jul 21, 2008 6:58 pm

It's a lot of work... as it would be with any car you install these in. But it's worth it, especially when you pass a Mustang or a T-bird on the freeway. wink

_________________
'98 SC Riviera 281k miles 298 HP/370 TQ 0-60: 5.79s ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 4087 lb 20.1 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley AL104 plugs 180 t-stat FWI w/K&N 1.9:1 rockers OR pushrods LS6 valve springs SLP headers ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts MaxAir shocks Addco sway bars UMI bushings GM STB Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus SS lines Brembo slotted discs DHP tuned Aeroforce Hidden Hitch

^^^ SOLD ^^^ frown

'05 GTO 85k miles 0-60: 4.8s 16.9 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun


'70 Olds Ninety-Eight Holiday Coupe 116k miles 455 Rocket V8
Because cool


'95 Celica 152k miles 0-60: yes
Because free
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Sequential Turn Signals   Mon Jul 21, 2008 7:03 pm

It's not that hard of work. The main thing is to put a towel down on the bumper so you don't scratch up the bumper when you pull the tail light assembly out. Take your time cutting the center holes in the tail light and be careful not to pinch wires when you slide the tail light back in. If I can do it, anyone can.
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Sequential Turn Signals   Mon Jul 21, 2008 7:17 pm

how much was the kit?
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Sequential Turn Signals   Mon Jul 21, 2008 7:25 pm

I think $75 or so, check 1st page of this thread. Jack, right - it's not that hard to do. Just have to take your time and make sure you do it right. It's not the kind of thing I do everyday...

_________________
'98 SC Riviera 281k miles 298 HP/370 TQ 0-60: 5.79s ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 4087 lb 20.1 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley AL104 plugs 180 t-stat FWI w/K&N 1.9:1 rockers OR pushrods LS6 valve springs SLP headers ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts MaxAir shocks Addco sway bars UMI bushings GM STB Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus SS lines Brembo slotted discs DHP tuned Aeroforce Hidden Hitch

^^^ SOLD ^^^ frown

'05 GTO 85k miles 0-60: 4.8s 16.9 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun


'70 Olds Ninety-Eight Holiday Coupe 116k miles 455 Rocket V8
Because cool


'95 Celica 152k miles 0-60: yes
Because free
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http://www.cardomain.com/ride/657082/4
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Sequential Turn Signals   Tue Jul 22, 2008 3:42 am

kool I really like the way it looks
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Sequential Turn Signals   Sat Aug 09, 2008 10:15 am

two things:

1) I looked at this a second time, could use the cornering lights to switch the sequencer in/out of circuit.

2) There is a site with a new style of LED automotive lights - they use arrays of surface-mount LEDs (it's about time!) to fix the spot problem, have a look: http://superlumination.com/

Albertj
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PostSubject: short in sequentials?   Mon Nov 03, 2008 7:25 pm

So here's the latest...

Whenever I depress the brake pedal the hazard light indicator turns on for as long as the brake is down. So I checked my bulbs to see if any were burnt out.

I have the sequential turn signals in. My left turn signal works normally, my right signal only has the innermost light blinking. When the brake pedal is depressed they work fine except the light in the rear windshield. When I turn on my hazards they do not blink but all three bulbs stay solid on each side.

Could this be caused by a short in the wiring to the sequential turn signals on the right side or a bad fuse somewhere?

If it's a short, would that explain my battery being drained and my car not being able to start?
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