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 1984 Buick Riviera engine rebuild assistance needed

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dlmcmahon173
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PostSubject: 1984 Buick Riviera engine rebuild assistance needed    Mon Mar 14, 2016 3:28 pm

I apologize because I don't know where to post this question (the site is a bit confusing to navigate)

I normally don't care for people who don't spend time doing their own research before asking (because I know one or more of you have this answer already) but time is of the essence. I am active duty military stationed in Germany but I am retiring here in Germany next month. As part of this, I will lose my ability to ship anything to me through USPS.

After six months, I finally imported a 1984 Buick Riviera from Ohio. I realize this isn't the normal "collectible" for many but my family and I have a real connection the to the sixth generation (grandfather owned a 1979, gave it to my mother who in turn have it to me for high school). I'd always hoped to get another one someday and that day has come.

Unfortunately, as luck would have it, 350 miles into ownership the motor is knocking. And not just a little.....

I have no desire to "hop up" the motor or even go bigger. German inspection rules are tough enough and I'd rather not spend the money for what I consider a luxury cruiser.

I do, however, want to rebuild the motor and get the car back on the road. And this is where my question comes in.

As I said, I own a 1984 Buick Riviera with a 307 (4 barrel carb as you all know).

What I can't find is a rebuild book for the motor. Maybe I'm looking in the wrong spots but I having serious difficulty finding a book (or even something downloadable). Maybe a manual for the actual car is where I should be looking?

If anyone could help, I would appreciate it. You can obviously answer me on here or email me some direction at dlmcmahon173@gmail.com.

I thank you for your time.
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71stagegs
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PostSubject: Re: 1984 Buick Riviera engine rebuild assistance needed    Mon Mar 14, 2016 10:17 pm

David thanks for your service only thing I could tell u is it is a olds motor so look up olds motors I know because I bought that car new.Steve
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albertj
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PostSubject: Re: 1984 Buick Riviera engine rebuild assistance needed    Mon Mar 14, 2016 10:34 pm

The 307 is not trivial to rebuild nor is it that difficult; if I remember right once the emissions plumbing is out of the way the rebuild can be done with engine still in the bay. So to everyone: are any of you aware of engine rebuild instructions for the GM corporate 307? IIRC it ws the last GM carbureted engine. For my money, I'd start looking here:

http://www.haynes.com/products/productID/184

in the Haynes manual for the GM fleet of the relevant era. USD$20.- The next place to look would be on eBay for a correct factory service manual; I suspect that for the engine, a manual for an Olds or Cadillac same year with same engine would have the needed instructions and illustrations. The Haynes manual at the link covers the year and will have photos.

And David, you are welcome...

and thank you for your service to the people of the United States of America.

Albertj
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dlmcmahon173
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PostSubject: Re: 1984 Buick Riviera engine rebuild assistance needed    Tue Mar 15, 2016 1:21 am

I appreciate the responses. I've been turning wrenches in the Army for 22 years so this isn't new to me but I have military diesel equipment in my head (been a while since jumped into a engine rebuild). I'll use that info and go from there.

Thanks again.
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LARRY70GS
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PostSubject: Re: 1984 Buick Riviera engine rebuild assistance needed    Tue Mar 15, 2016 8:06 am


_________________
98 Riviera SC3800  All stock except gutted air box.
1970 Buick GS455 Stage1, TSP built 470BBB, 602HP/589TQ
Best MPH, 116.06 MPH, Best ET, 11.54
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHCda-t_Jls
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfT2tEO4XcU
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dlmcmahon173
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PostSubject: Re: 1984 Buick Riviera engine rebuild assistance needed    Tue Mar 15, 2016 9:17 am

Just bought the service manuals listed on eBay (but thank you for the assistance).

I found some instances where the flywheel was the problem and I'm hoping after some investigation this is my problem.

It's hard to believe with 53k miles it's in need of a rebuild but honestly anything is possible.

I took a chance importing this car to Germany but despite the problem, the car is safe in the garage until I can repair it. And at least it's just the motor (have to look at the bright side)
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LARRY70GS
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PostSubject: Re: 1984 Buick Riviera engine rebuild assistance needed    Tue Mar 15, 2016 9:34 am

A cracked flexplate or loose torque converter to flexplate bolts will produce a knock or click that comes and goes and varies in frequency. The noise will change in and out of gear. A water pump that is bad can also make some scary noises. All of these are more probable than main or rod bearing noise. Unless you ran the engine low on oil, or subjected it to extreme detonation, there really is no reason for bearing noise. Bearing noise is rhythmical.

Take the inspection cover down and check the flexplate. Grab a hold of the fan pulley and try to wiggle it to check the water pump. Finally, check the oil pressure with a REAL gauge. Bearing noise and low oil pressure go hand in hand. You can also cut the oil filter open to check for bearing material.

_________________
98 Riviera SC3800  All stock except gutted air box.
1970 Buick GS455 Stage1, TSP built 470BBB, 602HP/589TQ
Best MPH, 116.06 MPH, Best ET, 11.54
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHCda-t_Jls
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfT2tEO4XcU
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dlmcmahon173
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PostSubject: Re: 1984 Buick Riviera engine rebuild assistance needed    Tue Mar 15, 2016 10:31 am

I have a hopeful feeling the flex plate is the issue (sorry, I don't know how to post the video on here) but I do have a rhythmic sound, but it does seem off from the actual engine rpm.

Obviously I didn't run the motor long but I have some investigating to do but I thank you for the suggestions (all of which I was planning to do shortly).

Unfortunately I don't retire for another month so duty still calls...ha ha
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LARRY70GS
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PostSubject: Re: 1984 Buick Riviera engine rebuild assistance needed    Tue Mar 15, 2016 11:09 am

dlmcmahon173 wrote:
I have a hopeful feeling the flex plate is the issue (sorry, I don't know how to post the video on here) but I do have a rhythmic sound, but it does seem off from the actual engine rpm.

Obviously I didn't run the motor long but I have some investigating to do but I thank you for the suggestions (all of which I was planning to do shortly).

Unfortunately I don't retire for another month so duty still calls...ha ha

That's the key, bearing noise is closely related to engine RPM. Could just be loose bolts securing the torque converter to flexplate.

_________________
98 Riviera SC3800  All stock except gutted air box.
1970 Buick GS455 Stage1, TSP built 470BBB, 602HP/589TQ
Best MPH, 116.06 MPH, Best ET, 11.54
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHCda-t_Jls
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfT2tEO4XcU
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dlmcmahon173
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PostSubject: Re: 1984 Buick Riviera engine rebuild assistance needed    Wed Mar 16, 2016 11:54 am

I appreciate all the comments (help). I did in fact order the chassis manuals from eBay.

So I spent some time trying to locate the knock. Unfortunately, I was unable to clearly diagnose the problem. I pulled the starter, inspected what I could (no issues) and even unbolted the torque converter (hoping it was a flex plate or torque converter issue). It's been a while since I touched a Riviera, I should of remembered I couldn't drop the pan. I even tried to isolate which cylinder it was by disconnecting each spark plug wire while it was running (no change). I did change the oil (and this was the final check). Unfortunately, there are metal shavings in the oil (not a lot but enough to look like a metal flake paint job). Regardless if I'm wrong, there's something inoperative in the motor.

Anyway, thank you again for the assistance and I hope to have an answer soon (motor is ready to pull, just need to find a hoist).

Take care.
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LARRY70GS
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PostSubject: Re: 1984 Buick Riviera engine rebuild assistance needed    Wed Mar 16, 2016 2:46 pm

I would still cut open the oil filter. used oil in the sun can look reflective. Can you actually feel metal bits in the oil?

_________________
98 Riviera SC3800  All stock except gutted air box.
1970 Buick GS455 Stage1, TSP built 470BBB, 602HP/589TQ
Best MPH, 116.06 MPH, Best ET, 11.54
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHCda-t_Jls
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfT2tEO4XcU
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Abaddon
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PostSubject: Re: 1984 Buick Riviera engine rebuild assistance needed    Wed Mar 16, 2016 3:27 pm

Quick comment here.....

I've got my Foreman heading upstairs to see if we have any old manuals with a 307 in it. We didn't service Buicks then, but we were a Pontiac dealer. If we can dig up a Parisienne manual, I can probably scan all the engine pages, or take pictures for you. I'll let ya know if we come up with anything.

EDIT: Nope. Nothing. Apparently everything Buick used the 5.0 305. We might be able to go back even further, but they might not be the same build. What's the engine code specifically? "Y"?
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dlmcmahon173
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PostSubject: Re: 1984 Buick Riviera engine rebuild assistance needed    Thu Mar 17, 2016 1:19 am

Larry, I could feel any metal but there is a haze of metal flake (both what I saw coming from the oil out of the pushrods/rocker arms and what I drained. I know all motors tend to have some wear but the car had an oil change 350 miles ago (when it arrived) so I have to think this is new.

Abaddon, my engine code is Y and from what I can tell, it's a 307 (but should be the same block). You have my email, whatever you find I'll gladly take but the chassis manuals are headed my way.

I'm trying to locate a hoist local to me now. I'm eager to see the internals of the motor and what I'm looking at as far as repairs.
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LARRY70GS
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PostSubject: Re: 1984 Buick Riviera engine rebuild assistance needed    Thu Mar 17, 2016 7:44 am

All oil will have a sheen to it, especially in the sunlight. Get a magnet and see if it picks up anything. Take the oil filter off and use a hacksaw to cut it open. Spread the paper out and if you have a bearing that is gone, it will be very obvious as there will be metal and probably copper in the filter. I'd hate to have you pull the engine and find there is nothing wrong.

_________________
98 Riviera SC3800  All stock except gutted air box.
1970 Buick GS455 Stage1, TSP built 470BBB, 602HP/589TQ
Best MPH, 116.06 MPH, Best ET, 11.54
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHCda-t_Jls
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfT2tEO4XcU
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dlmcmahon173
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PostSubject: Re: 1984 Buick Riviera engine rebuild assistance needed    Thu Mar 17, 2016 8:28 am

Your probably really get Larry (in fact I know your right) but considering the oil was changed 350 miles ago and there is still a knock, the motor has to come out (to at least figure out what and why.

I hope I'm wrong but I can't drop the pan with the motor in the car. Once I've secured a hoist in Germany, I'll know more.

Trust me, I'd rather be driving (ha ha) but I'm hoping for the best after I pull the motor.

If upload the videos but I'm afraid I don't know how on this site.

Send me an email to dlmcmahon173@gmail.com (I'll gladly take any advice).
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albertj
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PostSubject: Re: 1984 Buick Riviera engine rebuild assistance needed    Fri Mar 18, 2016 10:49 am

dlmcmahon173 wrote:
Your probably really get Larry (in fact I know your right) but considering the oil was changed 350 miles ago and there is still a knock, the motor has to come out (to at least figure out what and why.

I hope I'm wrong but I can't drop the pan with the motor in the car. Once I've secured a hoist in Germany, I'll know more.

Trust me, I'd rather be driving (ha ha) but I'm hoping for the best after I pull the motor.

If upload the videos but I'm afraid I don't know how on this site.

Send me an email to dlmcmahon173@gmail.com (I'll gladly take any advice).

I wonder if someone pulled the transmission for some reason, and didn't clean well/use loctite on the bots holding the torqueconverter to the flexplate? just a thought
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dlmcmahon173
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PostSubject: Re: 1984 Buick Riviera engine rebuild assistance needed    Fri Mar 18, 2016 11:01 am

First-I meant "right" not "really"....wow

The three bolts connecting the flex plate to the torque converter were tight (and had Loctite on them)

I've purchased a hoist and a lift plate, I should have the engine pulled soon (once it arrives) and hopefully a better diagnosis.

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dlmcmahon173
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PostSubject: Re: 1984 Buick Riviera engine rebuild assistance needed    Mon Mar 28, 2016 3:34 am

So I got the motor pulled Saturday and it was what I feared.

The bearings for pistons 7 & 8 spun. Not horribly, I believe the crank could be saved and generally everything internally looks okay.

Of course, the best and most economical method is to search for a remanufactured engine (preferably with a warranty).

I thank you all again (the service manuals off eBay are pretty incredible, $130 seemed high but well worth the piece of mind)

Thank you all again.
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PostSubject: Re: 1984 Buick Riviera engine rebuild assistance needed    Tue Mar 29, 2016 2:13 am

dlmcmahon173 wrote:
So I got the motor pulled Saturday and it was what I feared.

The bearings for pistons 7 & 8 spun. Not horribly, I believe the crank could be saved and generally everything internally looks okay.

Of course, the best and most economical method is to search for a remanufactured engine (preferably with a warranty).

I thank you all again (the service manuals off eBay are pretty incredible, $130 seemed high but well worth the piece of mind)

Thank you all again.

sorry about the spun bearings and give that its the corporate 307 you may find a good pull at a wrecking yard. The sweet spot would be a 307 that was a recent Jacobs or other reputable rebuild, that's in a vehicle in the yard for some other reason (frame rust).
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dlmcmahon173
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PostSubject: Re: 1984 Buick Riviera engine rebuild assistance needed    Tue Mar 29, 2016 2:25 am

Unfortunately it's not that simple (military stationed in Germany).

I am currently tease aching remanufactured engine companies and awaiting quotes.

While I can rebuild the motor, the smartest and probably most economical choice is to go with something already built and certified.

If I can't find this then of course I'll rebuild the motor myself.
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dlmcmahon173
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PostSubject: Re: 1984 Buick Riviera engine rebuild assistance needed    Tue Mar 29, 2016 2:26 am

Tease aching??????

Researching....silly iPhone
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albertj
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PostSubject: Re: 1984 Buick Riviera engine rebuild assistance needed    Tue Mar 29, 2016 12:18 pm

dlmcmahon173 wrote:
Tease aching??????

Researching....silly iPhone

My iPad does that "tease aching" thing too...

All I was getting at was, maybe you should not ignore the possibility that a good reman engine might be available from a parts recycler who can crate and ship to you. That said, I also get the "don't cut corners and don't waste money" thing and if you go with a fresh reman from a reputable house you are unlikely to have issues. Just saying that the issues are also unlikely with a good pull as long as the puller knows what to look for - and many do.

It'll work out well. Should not be a problem to get a good reman 307, GM made more than one smile
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dlmcmahon173
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PostSubject: Re: 1984 Buick Riviera engine rebuild assistance needed    Tue Mar 29, 2016 12:40 pm

I'm very hesitant to cut any corners. While pulling a motor isn't tough, I'd rather not do it more than once (ha ha).

I found a company in Las Vegas that can help me for $3600. Not cheap (and then add the import tax) but doable.
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