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 Horn / Airbag pad and Moonroof

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14years
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Name : Dave
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PostSubject: Horn / Airbag pad and Moonroof   Wed Mar 29, 2017 1:40 pm

Hey guys
1999.... My horn goes off by itself when it gets hot or cold. I can massage the airbag pad and stop it, so I know it's a bad horn switch. Question is, do I have to replace the airbag to fix it? Or is it separate from the airbag mechanism itself?

Second question. My moonroof kinda works, but I have to "help" it as it sounds like some gears are stripped. If I'm going to tear this headliner out, I want to have the right parts on hand. exactly what do I most likely need to order?
Thanks
Dave
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albertj
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PostSubject: Re: Horn / Airbag pad and Moonroof   Thu Mar 30, 2017 1:18 pm

http://www.tonkinonlineparts.com/showAssembly.aspx?ukey_assembly=857798&ukey_make=1084&ukey_model=15840
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PostSubject: Re: Horn / Airbag pad and Moonroof   Thu Mar 30, 2017 2:41 pm

Thanks, but I don't get it. This diagram suggests the horn button is part of the cruise/radio/hvac controls, which clearly it isn't. There is another component (#9) that I suspect is the horn switch, but it isn't listed or described.
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LARRY70GS
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PostSubject: Re: Horn / Airbag pad and Moonroof   Thu Mar 30, 2017 4:29 pm

Dave, as far as I can tell, the horn actuation is indeed inside the "airbag" and I would not try to service it. Replace the entire airbag if you are certain that is the problem. I believe they are the same as the Park Avenue and possibly other Buicks.

Have you tried lubricating the moon roof?

_________________
98 Riviera SC3800  All stock except gutted air box.
1970 Buick GS455 Stage1, TSP built 470BBB, 602HP/589TQ
Best MPH, 116.06 MPH, Best ET, 11.54
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHCda-t_Jls
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfT2tEO4XcU
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PostSubject: Re: Horn / Airbag pad and Moonroof   Thu Mar 30, 2017 4:36 pm

That's not how I read the diagram, but OK.

IIRC the problem on earlier Rivieras was the horn membrane (spans the airbag cover) flattens in spots and won't "break" contact. I dimly recall another post on this site described how to replace that membrane with stock material but I can't find it. The same era Corvette horn is similar, and here's a post on repairing it:

http://www.corvetteforum.com/forums/c5-tech/1739923-horn-membrane-fix.html


The diagram I posted was the only diagram I found that showed all the part numbers, and I thought you could use it to track down a used airbag cover from one or another of the better parts recyclers. I am not sure how many recyclers removed the horn covers from airbag units. Then there is :

http://www.airbagcenter.com/StaticPages/SelectStaticPage.aspx?content=73

...who claim to sell inspected used airbags. Maybe they have just a cover for you? At least you can call. I think they want about $250 for a cover complete.
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PostSubject: Re: Horn / Airbag pad and Moonroof   Thu Mar 30, 2017 5:09 pm

Thanks, I would have assumed it was in the airbag unit, but I've only messed with these on a couple of Japanese cars (and one Ford with no airbag) and wasn't sure on this one. I'm pretty sure the car has spent its entire life outdoors baking in the SC sun. I'm hoping that if I can find an airbag unit in a car with a less scorched interior, the airbag/horn assembly might be in better shape in spite of its 18-22 years.

I vaguely remember trying to grease the moonroof as best I could without removing the headliner when I picked up what's left of this car 2 years ago. But it is definitely slipping bad and it is out of calibration. I'll look into parts, but with our extreme humidity and 100+ temps coming this summer I may just put the money into fixing the AC.
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LARRY70GS
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PostSubject: Re: Horn / Airbag pad and Moonroof   Thu Mar 30, 2017 5:14 pm

albertj wrote:
That's not how I read the diagram, but OK.

IIRC the problem on earlier Rivieras was the horn membrane (spans the airbag cover) flattens in spots and won't "break" contact. I dimly recall another post on this site described how to replace that membrane with stock material but I can't find it. The same era Corvette horn is similar, and here's a post on repairing it:

http://www.corvetteforum.com/forums/c5-tech/1739923-horn-membrane-fix.html


The diagram I posted was the only diagram I found that showed all the part numbers, and I thought you could use it to track down a used airbag cover from one or another of the better parts recyclers. I am not sure how many recyclers removed the horn covers from airbag units. Then there is :

http://www.airbagcenter.com/StaticPages/SelectStaticPage.aspx?content=73

...who claim to sell inspected used airbags. Maybe they have just a cover for you? At least you can call. I think they want about $250 for a cover complete.

That's interesting stuff Albert. Not sure I'd be messing around skinning an airbag, LOL. Glad I have a spare in fantastic shape that I picked up years ago.

_________________
98 Riviera SC3800  All stock except gutted air box.
1970 Buick GS455 Stage1, TSP built 470BBB, 602HP/589TQ
Best MPH, 116.06 MPH, Best ET, 11.54
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHCda-t_Jls
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfT2tEO4XcU
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albertj
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PostSubject: Re: Horn / Airbag pad and Moonroof   Thu Mar 30, 2017 7:22 pm

LARRY70GS wrote:


albertj wrote:
That's not how I read the diagram, but OK.

IIRC the problem on earlier Rivieras was the horn membrane (spans the airbag cover) flattens in spots and won't "break" contact.   I dimly recall another post on this site described how to replace that membrane with stock material but I can't find it.  The same era Corvette horn is similar, and here's a post on repairing it:

http://www.corvetteforum.com/forums/c5-tech/1739923-horn-membrane-fix.html


The diagram I posted  was the only diagram I found that showed all the part numbers, and I thought you could use it to track down a used airbag cover from one or another of the better parts recyclers. I am not sure how many recyclers removed the horn covers from airbag units.   Then there is :

http://www.airbagcenter.com/StaticPages/SelectStaticPage.aspx?content=73

...who claim to sell inspected used airbags.  Maybe they have just a cover for you? At least you can call.  I think they want about $250 for a cover complete.  



That's interesting stuff Albert.  Not sure I'd be messing around skinning an airbag, LOL.  Glad I have a spare in fantastic shape that I picked up years ago.



...did you look at the post on the Corvette forum?  they make the repair look do-able. Only issue that comes to mind quickly for me is needing a scan tool to re-boot the aribag monitor.
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LARRY70GS
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PostSubject: Re: Horn / Airbag pad and Moonroof   Thu Mar 30, 2017 7:37 pm

Yes, very interesting, I just hate messing with the airbag. I always think it's like playing with a live grenade, LOL.

_________________
98 Riviera SC3800  All stock except gutted air box.
1970 Buick GS455 Stage1, TSP built 470BBB, 602HP/589TQ
Best MPH, 116.06 MPH, Best ET, 11.54
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHCda-t_Jls
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfT2tEO4XcU
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albertj
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PostSubject: Re: Horn / Airbag pad and Moonroof   Thu Mar 30, 2017 8:55 pm

LARRY70GS wrote:
Yes, very interesting, I just hate messing with the airbag.  I always think it's like playing with a live grenade, LOL.

You *are* playing with a live grenade, however if you follow a few rules there's no problem at all. (spoiler - I used to work with a chem engineer who worked on airbag technologies at Thiokol).

1) In the service manual the manufacturer will have instructions for disarming and removing the device. Read them through carefully, one time thru, just to understand them.

2) Work in a way and on a work surface that minimizes and preferably eliminates static electricity. An easy way to do this, actually, is get a static strap like you are supposed to use when installing computer memory.

3) Remember that if the airbag gets no intentional or accidental electrical deployment signal, it won't pop.

4a) Never, ever lift them by the wires.

4b) Always carry them so that the deployment (airbag) side does not point at your person, or other people.

5) Always set them down deployment side (bag side) up

They are not bad, it's just that there's no forgiveness for a sloppy workbench or indifferent handling with them.

Below is link to a slide presentation about handling airbags, intended for people who are packing and shipping them at a first-tier automotive subcontractor:

http://intranet.4linc.com/lincops/Portals/0/Docs/Training/Orion/Airbag%20Module%20Training_4-11-11.pdf
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