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JacobsRedRivi
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PostSubject: Water Pump Pulley   Tue May 16, 2017 12:37 pm

Hey guys, is there a spacific procedure when installing the pulley to the water pump? Ive noticed a slight wobble when i spin it by hand. Its smooth and makes no noise but it just concerns me.

I noticed that if i loosen the bolts and move the pulley a bit and tighten it back down it made it start to move up and down as it spun. I have it as close to straight as i can get it but there is still a slight side to side wobble.

The WP only has a thousand miles on it (maybe). Its not leaking. Any ideas?
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AA
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PostSubject: Re: Water Pump Pulley   Tue May 16, 2017 1:03 pm

If pulley is tight and wobbling, then replace the pump. Why did you have the pulley off?

_________________
'98 SC Riviera • 268k miles • 298 HP/370 TQ • 0-60: 5.79s • ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 • 4087 lb • 20.1 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley • AL104 plugs • 180Ί t-stat • FWI w/K&N • 1.9:1 rockers • OR pushrods • LS6 valve springs • SLP headers • ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts • MaxAir shocks • Addco sway bars • UMI bushings • GM STB • Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s • F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus • SS lines • Brembo slotted discs • DHP tuned • Aeroforce • Hidden Hitch


'05 GTO • 49k miles • 0-60: 4.8s • 16.9 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun
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albertj
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PostSubject: Re: Water Pump Pulley   Tue May 16, 2017 1:22 pm

JacobsRedRivi wrote:
Hey guys, is there a spacific procedure when installing the pulley to the water pump? Ive noticed a slight wobble when i spin it by hand. Its smooth and makes no noise but it just concerns me.

I noticed that if i loosen the bolts and move the pulley a bit and tighten it back down it made it start to move up and down as it spun.  I have it as close to straight as i can get it but there is still a slight side to side wobble.  

The WP only has a thousand miles on it (maybe). Its not leaking. Any ideas?

Either your pulley is wack, or there's an issue with the WP, or it's an optical illusion (sometimes a pulley loos like it wobbles due to color differences on the face and side).
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JacobsRedRivi
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PostSubject: Re: Water Pump Pulley   Tue May 16, 2017 2:21 pm

I will have to look into it a little further when i get home to see if it is an illusion.

But i took the pulley off because i wanted to see if that WP would wobble without it on and it seems ok (i think). I never rely payed attention when i did the water pump the first time and i could have put it on there offset a bit without noticing.

I will try and take a video and post on this thread.
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LARRY70GS
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PostSubject: Re: Water Pump Pulley   Tue May 16, 2017 4:18 pm

Usually a wobbling pulley is an instant tip off to a bad pump. With all the bolts tight, grab the pulley and try to wobble it by hand. If you can the water pump shaft bearing is toast, and the seal is not far behind. Doesn't matter if it was recently replaced, it's done, stick a fork in it.

_________________
98 Riviera SC3800  All stock except gutted air box.
1970 Buick GS455 Stage1, TSP built 470BBB, 602HP/589TQ
Best MPH, 116.06 MPH, Best ET, 11.54
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHCda-t_Jls
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfT2tEO4XcU
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JacobsRedRivi
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PostSubject: Re: Water Pump Pulley   Tue May 16, 2017 8:18 pm

So i did a little more investigating and i may just go with an illousion on this one.
I took a bit of gridwire and set it up on both sides of the pulley to where they are pretty much touching the pulley. So close i had to pull out my camera to find out if it was touching before i spinned it. I spinned it and it did not touch the pulley at all.
Also, on the back side of the pulley it seems the metal isnt perfectly streight as well as the line on the metal where the belt touches the pulley. That may be whats making it look wobbley. I cant relly wiggle the shaft any direction at all either.
I will post the video tomorrow if i can get some time.
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AA
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PostSubject: Re: Water Pump Pulley   Wed May 17, 2017 10:01 am

When it's doing this, time to replace!



_________________
'98 SC Riviera • 268k miles • 298 HP/370 TQ • 0-60: 5.79s • ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 • 4087 lb • 20.1 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley • AL104 plugs • 180Ί t-stat • FWI w/K&N • 1.9:1 rockers • OR pushrods • LS6 valve springs • SLP headers • ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts • MaxAir shocks • Addco sway bars • UMI bushings • GM STB • Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s • F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus • SS lines • Brembo slotted discs • DHP tuned • Aeroforce • Hidden Hitch


'05 GTO • 49k miles • 0-60: 4.8s • 16.9 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun
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http://www.cardomain.com/ride/657082/4
JacobsRedRivi
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PostSubject: Re: Water Pump Pulley   Wed May 17, 2017 10:39 am

Oh LAWD that is terrible. Mine is definitely not like that lol. Im going to leave mine alone for now since it spins true but just looks funky. I already have a new ACDELCO water pump that i will just hold on to for now.

Thanks for your guys help. Ill post some pics when i have her all back together. All new pulleys, new supercharger, I just ordered a 180 t-stat, and im just waiting for my injectors to arrive at Mr.Injectors front door. For whatever reason USPS sent them to Puerto Rico. mad Bastards
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JacobsRedRivi
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PostSubject: Re: Water Pump Pulley   Mon May 22, 2017 10:41 am

Hey guys so it turns out the pump was bad so i replaced it. But when o went to put it back on i cleaned all the bolts and added thread locker and all my bolts went good except the top one behind the motor mount bracket. It stripped out somehow. I tightened it to spec and then it spun on me :/ what do i do? Im worried it will star spilling coolant as soon as i turn it on. All the other bolts are tight except 1 that was missing when i bought the car.
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LARRY70GS
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PostSubject: Re: Water Pump Pulley   Mon May 22, 2017 3:40 pm

Helicoil

_________________
98 Riviera SC3800  All stock except gutted air box.
1970 Buick GS455 Stage1, TSP built 470BBB, 602HP/589TQ
Best MPH, 116.06 MPH, Best ET, 11.54
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHCda-t_Jls
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfT2tEO4XcU
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albertj
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PostSubject: Re: Water Pump Pulley   Mon May 22, 2017 4:20 pm

LARRY70GS wrote:
Helicoil
...+ 1 on this

a nearly *perfect* application for a Helicoil.
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AA
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PostSubject: Re: Water Pump Pulley   Mon May 22, 2017 4:21 pm

Here are two options (#2 isn't fun, but it's a good learning experience):

1) Ignore the stripped screw and hope for the best. With RTV sealing and the other screws supporting the pump, it might hold. Inspect religiously for the first few weeks, and be prepared to proceed to #2 at a moments notice.

2) Find a right angle drill or adapter and appropriate bit to drill out the hole, then tap the hole with a new oversize thread. Ideally do this with the pump off the engine. The size of the drill bit depends on the recommended diameter used with the tap. Whatever the size of the stripped screw (there are two I think), find a tap that's the next size up. It should be metric.

The old (stripped) hole will guide the path of the new bit. Be careful to correctly estimate the hole depth. Do this by measuring the screw length and adding thickness for the pump flange. Mark your bit and drill the block. Drill out the flange to a slightly larger diameter.

Tap the block, then use the new screw to reassemble. Be sure not to confuse your torque units (I once twisted off 2 transmission pan screws before realizing I was reading Nm but setting lb-ft on the wrench).

Best of luck. Let us know how it goes.

EDIT: or you could use Helicoil as mentioned. This lets you use the old screw size, which is nice.

_________________
'98 SC Riviera • 268k miles • 298 HP/370 TQ • 0-60: 5.79s • ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 • 4087 lb • 20.1 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley • AL104 plugs • 180Ί t-stat • FWI w/K&N • 1.9:1 rockers • OR pushrods • LS6 valve springs • SLP headers • ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts • MaxAir shocks • Addco sway bars • UMI bushings • GM STB • Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s • F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus • SS lines • Brembo slotted discs • DHP tuned • Aeroforce • Hidden Hitch


'05 GTO • 49k miles • 0-60: 4.8s • 16.9 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun
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http://www.cardomain.com/ride/657082/4
JacobsRedRivi
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PostSubject: Re: Water Pump Pulley   Mon May 22, 2017 8:55 pm

Nice i think ill go with the helicoil! Seems easy enough. If it doesnt leak on me ill let it be untill i ha e to replave it. Does anyone know the size bolt it is? One of the long ones? Also does anyone know the size of the bolts are for the alternator bracket?
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JacobsRedRivi
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PostSubject: Re: Water Pump Pulley   Wed May 24, 2017 9:07 am

Also do i need to order the next size up? If so what size should i get
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albertj
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PostSubject: Re: Water Pump Pulley   Wed May 24, 2017 10:09 am

JacobsRedRivi wrote:
Also do i need to order the next size up? If so what size should i get


Go to the store or online and read the instructions for the Helicoil.  It comes in a kit.  What you'll find, in general, is you'll want one that matches the size of the other bolts. You will also find guidance for what to do if your hole is already too big for a helicoil insert that matches the other bolts.  Then get the kit and an appropriate drill and install:


  1.   Drill out the old threads using the drill size that is recommended on the thread repair kit packaging. The shank of the tap also lists the recommended drill size.
  2.   Tap the hole using the Screw Thread Insert (STI) tap.
  3.   Install the insert using the installation tool.
  4.   Remove the tang of the insert.


For further details, just Google "Helicoil directions" - there are posts and videos with just the directions, and post from the manufacturer (Stanley Engineered Fastening) with other details. These things are used for all sorts of situations including replacing cross threaded spark plug bores. They are right up there with sliced bread.
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JacobsRedRivi
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PostSubject: Re: Water Pump Pulley   Fri May 26, 2017 11:29 am

Does anyone know the size of one of the shorter long bolts on the water pump and the size of the bolt that holds the alternator bracket to the engine? Trying to order my Helicoil kit
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AA
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PostSubject: Re: Water Pump Pulley   Fri May 26, 2017 3:27 pm

I don't know the specs, but you can take the bolt to a local parts or hardware store and check with their thread guide, or try finding a matching nut.

_________________
'98 SC Riviera • 268k miles • 298 HP/370 TQ • 0-60: 5.79s • ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 • 4087 lb • 20.1 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley • AL104 plugs • 180Ί t-stat • FWI w/K&N • 1.9:1 rockers • OR pushrods • LS6 valve springs • SLP headers • ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts • MaxAir shocks • Addco sway bars • UMI bushings • GM STB • Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s • F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus • SS lines • Brembo slotted discs • DHP tuned • Aeroforce • Hidden Hitch


'05 GTO • 49k miles • 0-60: 4.8s • 16.9 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun
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http://www.cardomain.com/ride/657082/4
JacobsRedRivi
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PostSubject: Re: Water Pump Pulley   Tue May 30, 2017 10:53 am

So since i already had it all back togather o took it for a test run and the wp gasket blew FML! I found the replacmebt hardware for the pump online. I will try to thread a new bolt in the block and.if it doesnt want.to turn ill just have to re thread the block. Fml. I got damn near all new parts on the engine and i still havent been able to drive it for a week streight. Just my luck. It just sucks because i have to take out the same bolts over and over i feel like more are going to strip on me. Sorry about the rant. Im heated >frown
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albertj
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PostSubject: Re: Water Pump Pulley   Tue May 30, 2017 12:27 pm

Bolts won't strip if you don't overtorque. 3800 has cast iron block & heads from factory. I can't really tell sitting here but I suspect that if you are stripping those things something else is wrong.
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JacobsRedRivi
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PostSubject: Re: Water Pump Pulley   Tue May 30, 2017 1:31 pm

Relly? I thought it was aluminum. I never over torqued it i used a torque wrench and it spun when i reached the torque. So should i just try a new bolt? Ill post a pic pf my stripped one here in a bit
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albertj
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PostSubject: Re: Water Pump Pulley   Tue May 30, 2017 3:16 pm

JacobsRedRivi wrote:
Relly? I thought it was aluminum.  I never over torqued it i used a torque wrench and it spun when i reached the torque.  So should i just try a new bolt?   Ill post a pic pf my stripped one here in a bit

ZZP sells an aluminum head for the Riv engine. I can't tell from here if your is stock or the modified ZZP head.

That said, a stripped bolt is different from a stripped block, and a Helicoil is a very good remedy whether inserted in cast iron or aluminum. Finally be sure you are using the right grade bolts (can't help you with that either but you can check on your own). Your bolts are torx heads, right?
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LARRY70GS
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PostSubject: Re: Water Pump Pulley   Tue May 30, 2017 4:39 pm

The only time I use a torque wrench is when I am installing heads, intake, crank, connecting rods, or some other critical part. You are literally begging for trouble when you use it for something like a water pump. Use some common sense and snug up the bolt and call it done.

_________________
98 Riviera SC3800  All stock except gutted air box.
1970 Buick GS455 Stage1, TSP built 470BBB, 602HP/589TQ
Best MPH, 116.06 MPH, Best ET, 11.54
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHCda-t_Jls
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfT2tEO4XcU
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AA
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PostSubject: Re: Water Pump Pulley   Tue May 30, 2017 5:30 pm

I'd try a fresh OEM bolt first, if the old one appears stripped. Use some thread locker and apply torque via Larry's method.

_________________
'98 SC Riviera • 268k miles • 298 HP/370 TQ • 0-60: 5.79s • ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 • 4087 lb • 20.1 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley • AL104 plugs • 180Ί t-stat • FWI w/K&N • 1.9:1 rockers • OR pushrods • LS6 valve springs • SLP headers • ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts • MaxAir shocks • Addco sway bars • UMI bushings • GM STB • Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s • F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus • SS lines • Brembo slotted discs • DHP tuned • Aeroforce • Hidden Hitch


'05 GTO • 49k miles • 0-60: 4.8s • 16.9 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun
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http://www.cardomain.com/ride/657082/4
JacobsRedRivi
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PostSubject: Re: Water Pump Pulley   Thu Jun 01, 2017 2:08 pm

Bet, I already orderd the bolts ill let yall know how it turns out. I believe all my parts were stock when i bought it from an old man. No ZZP parts except what ive put on lately. But she did drive like a dream with those clean fuel injectors smile
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