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 VATS Security bypass

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IFallsRon
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PostSubject: VATS Security bypass   Sat Jun 17, 2017 6:39 pm

I'll leave the writeup alone this round.

I've followed the procedure to get to the VATS module. My wire colors are different than the photos from Setton's writeup. And I assume there's a year difference.

When my security delay started, it was very random, maybe months between. Most recently, I often reach the third rotation and give up which extends the wait time enough that the morning reliability no longer exists.

My research tells me that installing a remote starter requires some amount of modifying the security system. Is it possible that's an option?
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albertj
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PostSubject: Re: VATS Security bypass   Sun Jun 18, 2017 3:49 am

My understanding is the remote start can work but until you replace the ig switch and ig cylinder the problem recurs.
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IFallsRon
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PostSubject: Re: VATS Security bypass   Sun Jun 18, 2017 6:47 pm

Unhooked the VATS module. Security light flashes, car starts again and again and again.
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albertj
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PostSubject: Re: VATS Security bypass   Mon Jun 19, 2017 10:03 am

IFallsRon wrote:
Unhooked the VATS module. Security light flashes, car starts again and again and again.

That's a way to do it - next step is pull the IC and disable the light, I guess.... or did you do that already?
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IFallsRon
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PostSubject: Re: VATS Security bypass   Mon Jun 19, 2017 6:20 pm

The light blinks at a normal interval and goes out. I'm OK with that.

My assumption was that unhooking the module would make something/everything not work. I've never had any other security issue aside from start delay. Time will tell.

My goal was to add the resistor. I'll have to research which wires to bypass as noted above.
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albertj
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PostSubject: Re: VATS Security bypass   Tue Jun 20, 2017 8:30 am

Got it.

Reminds me of the starter interlock on 1974 model year American vehicles. One way to defeat that was to simply disconnect a sensor wire, underneath the seat. Varied depending on make/model.
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IFallsRon
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PostSubject: Re: VATS Security bypass   Thu Jun 22, 2017 9:24 pm

Ouch. No start for first time.

Same symptom: key in, SECURITY light stays on, wait three minutes and start.

Stop at power house for Friday eve provisions and normal restart.

Now I question my/our approach. Threads have suspected that inclusion of resistor will fix the problem (the test being adding resistor and car starts although few have cited failure).

I have deleted the VATS module from the equation with success (maybe) ... until many days into the process.

With success, it makes me wonder what has happened to the loop that requires the key of proper resistor code?

My next plan would be looping the resistor into the dangling VATS plug (see wire color note above). How would I measure success? The car has started without the module. Success or failure cannot be attributed to anything that has been held valid by others' tests.
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albertj
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PostSubject: Re: VATS Security bypass   Fri Jun 23, 2017 2:26 am

That's kind of why i bit the banana and replaced the starting wear parts--ig switch, ig cylinder. Replacing the cylinder, have to get new keys cut or re-pin the new cylinder to match the old key. I simply bought blanks in advance and had those cut using the pattern keys that came with the cylinder.
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IFallsRon
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PostSubject: Re: VATS Security bypass   Sun Jun 25, 2017 9:07 pm

Tuesday gone with the wind.

My retired neighbor's GM dealership guy is coming by with his scan tool on Tuesday. I make no assumptions but I have a Google-list of questions. I hope positive but there is chance it will, perhaps, become the day the music died for my Riv.








I







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albertj
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PostSubject: Re: VATS Security bypass   Tue Jun 27, 2017 11:12 am

IFallsRon wrote:
Tuesday gone with the wind.

My retired neighbor's GM dealership guy is coming by with his scan tool on Tuesday. I make no assumptions but I have a Google-list of questions. I hope positive but there is chance it will, perhaps, become the day the music died for my Riv.


Actually, you 100% will be able to get it going again as long as you have no problems with wiring harness splices and you have/get a VATS system that tests OK (I think you can tell with the Tech II). I imagine, Ron, you'll go ahead and replace the ig switch and ig cylinder. The tech II won't be able to tell that the ig switch/ig cylinder is bad, I don't think, but it will eliminate most other failures. Your other headache here is that the dealership mechanics may or may not see high-mileage/old-age failures depending on what they drive. At the dealership I often go to a couple of the mechanics do.

Quick aside: dealer mechanics around here earn a decent living but around here they don't buy a new car every 3-5 years etc. They often buy high mileage trade ins from the dealership or an auto recycler for short money - popular one selling roadworthy junked cars is at this LINK, they sell at cost plus to the trade and discount from book to the public, doing mechanical repairs to sound cars from parts in the yard. In larger cities many if not most of the dealer mechanics are often relatively green and they leave when an independent shop comes along that they can buy from the owner, buy into, or work for better money at (right Abbadon?) apart from the dealership.

Bottom line for me is I still am not at all happy about having replaced my ig cylinder twice and ig switch once, in the back of my mind I still wonder if I really had to, and I'm sorry you've reached this juncture.
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IFallsRon
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PostSubject: Re: VATS Security bypass   Sat Jul 01, 2017 5:26 pm

Dealership guy wasn't able to connect his Tech II but he game me insight into what may be happening.

His most recent experience was replacing the ignition module and keys in an Olds Cutlass. He said the ig wires are very fine. Time and using the tilt may have caused enough wear to affect the resistance sent to the VATS. My car would not start the day he visited and it has sat for several days of unsuccessful attempts.

Today I removed everything necessary to see the top of the steering column and ig and wire harness. I wiggled the harness some while tracing its route. At that point I thought it was worth the effort to give starting a shot. Surprise. Successive attempts with different keys.

I think that allowing the wires to move freely when the ig rotates may be a key component to success. In normal position, there's a pinch point.

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albertj
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PostSubject: Re: VATS Security bypass   Wed Jul 05, 2017 1:59 pm

IFallsRon wrote:
Dealership guy wasn't able to connect his Tech II but he game me insight into what may be happening.

His most recent experience was replacing the ignition module and keys in an Olds Cutlass. He said the ig wires are very fine. Time and using the tilt may have caused enough wear to affect the resistance sent to the VATS. My car would not start the day he visited and it has sat for several days of unsuccessful attempts.

Today I removed everything necessary to see the top of the steering column and ig and wire harness. I wiggled the harness some while tracing its route. At that point I thought it was worth the effort to give starting a shot. Surprise. Successive attempts with different keys.

I think that allowing the wires to move freely when the ig rotates may be a key component to success. In normal position, there's a pinch point.


I kinda think that points to replacing the ig cylinder. If you had success wiggling the ig switch harness, that's kind of a different issue but also points toward replacement.
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Rickw
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PostSubject: Re: VATS Security bypass   Tue Jul 25, 2017 4:59 pm

I experienced a very similar problem a number of years back on my 98. After buying a new OEM ignition switch (Not Cylinder) and paying my local tech to replace it ...........he told me after replacing the switch and harness, that is all one part, the problem still remained.
He then removed the fuse from the fuse holder, cleaned the connections and the problem went away and has never returned.
I spent a lot of money for what turned out to be a simple fuse issue. I would start there and move on if necessary.

With all that said, I have a very good used switch assembly that you can have for the cost of shipping if you need it.

To contact me, it would be best to email me at IRRICKW (at) COMCAST.NET
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IFallsRon
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PostSubject: Re: VATS Security bypass   Tue Jul 25, 2017 7:40 pm

What fuse are you referencing?
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Rickw
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PostSubject: Re: VATS Security bypass   Tue Jul 25, 2017 9:29 pm

IFallsRon wrote:
What fuse are you referencing?


One of the fuses in the fuse panel in the drivers side A pillar area. I think it's marked "IGN".

Can't remember for sure, it's been so long and I'm loosing memory fast these days.
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albertj
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PostSubject: Re: VATS Security bypass   Wed Jul 26, 2017 1:31 pm

Rickw wrote:
I experienced a very similar problem a number of years back on my 98. After buying a new OEM ignition switch (Not Cylinder) and paying my local tech to replace it ...........he told me after replacing the switch and harness, that is all one part, the problem still remained.
He then removed the fuse from the fuse holder, cleaned the connections and the problem went away and has never returned.
I spent a lot of money for what turned out to be a simple fuse issue. I would start there and move on if necessary.

With all that said, I have a very good used switch assembly that you can have for the cost of shipping if you need it.

To contact me, it would be best to email me at IRRICKW (at) COMCAST.NET

+1 to this, simple stuff first.
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