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carguy8888
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Name : Brian Cohen
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PostSubject: Power steering pressure lines   Power steering pressure lines EmptySat Mar 09, 2019 10:43 pm

I want to fix the tsb shudder in my steering, can I go with AC Delco lines from Rock Auto or do I have to go to the deal of where they are $250?
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DeepFrozen
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PostSubject: Re: Power steering pressure lines   Power steering pressure lines EmptyFri Mar 15, 2019 4:15 am

AC Delco is as good as original GM stuff.
... or ...
I didn't understand the question smile
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Abaddon
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Abaddon

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PostSubject: Re: Power steering pressure lines   Power steering pressure lines EmptyFri Mar 15, 2019 8:25 am

carguy8888 wrote:
I want to fix the tsb shudder in my steering, can I go with AC Delco lines from Rock Auto or do I have to go to the deal of where they are $250?

That TSB was made for the Riv when it was new, or a few years old. Your particular shudder may not be repaired by just the lines.

Just sayin. Those TSBs are made for cars still under warranty.

If you're replacing them anyway, go with Delco.
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albertj
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albertj

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PostSubject: Re: Power steering pressure lines   Power steering pressure lines EmptyFri Mar 15, 2019 8:59 am

carguy8888 wrote:
I want to fix the tsb shudder in my steering, can I go with AC Delco lines from Rock Auto or do I have to go to the deal of where they are $250?

This thread, below, addresses the power steering issue:

http://rivperformance.editboard.com/t1580-steering-shudder-pump-or-rack-noise?highlight=power+steering

You can get a "sell down" of the hose from Summit Racing at this LINK.

It's even less pricey at RockAuto but check the shipping on both.

Albertj
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carguy8888
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PostSubject: Re: Power steering pressure lines   Power steering pressure lines EmptyFri Mar 15, 2019 8:08 pm

Thank you both, I bought ACDelco hoses and I'll have them installed in a week or two.
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carguy8888
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PostSubject: Re: Power steering pressure lines   Power steering pressure lines EmptySun Mar 17, 2019 10:52 am

I had both lines replaced yesterday and I still have the shutter, sh#!. Should I try the Albert Lucas trick or any advice?
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albertj
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PostSubject: Re: Power steering pressure lines   Power steering pressure lines EmptySun Mar 17, 2019 10:41 pm

carguy8888 wrote:
I had both lines replaced yesterday and I still have the shutter, sh#!. Should I try the Albert Lucas trick or any advice?

If you have not done so yet, read through all the posts at the link:

http://rivperformance.editboard.com/t1580-steering-shudder-pump-or-rack-noise?highlight=power+steering
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Abaddon
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Abaddon

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PostSubject: Re: Power steering pressure lines   Power steering pressure lines EmptyMon Mar 18, 2019 8:40 am

I'd try switching the fluid over to Dexron VI and see if it alleviates the concern at all. It won't make it go away completely, but it may help.

Does your Riv have an aftermarket gear in it by chance? Both of mine are still rockin the factory gears. There's probably a restriction or a worn seal inside the gear itself that's causing the problem.
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carguy8888
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PostSubject: Re: Power steering pressure lines   Power steering pressure lines EmptyMon Mar 18, 2019 9:01 am

I'm very new and green to this platform so can you tell me what gear you're talkin about?
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albertj
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PostSubject: Re: Power steering pressure lines   Power steering pressure lines EmptyMon Mar 18, 2019 10:06 am

carguy8888 wrote:
I'm very new and green to this platform so can you tell me what gear you're talkin about?

Conceptually a "rack and pinion" steering mechanism is a flat gear called a rack and a round gear called a pinion.  Conceptual drawing follows.

Power steering pressure lines E41cfa10

Typically the hydraulics (oil pump and pistons) look/work look like this (another conceptual drawing):

Power steering pressure lines Rack-a10

Depending on the position of the valve, oil is pumped onto one side of the piston or the other to assist pushing the rack one direction or the other, favoring the direction of pinion rotation.  

Like water hammering in residential supply pipes, the noise that's bugging you typically but not always comes from  oil hammering in the hydraulic lines.  To get it to not do that you can change the length of the lines, the viscosity of the fluid, or switch to a manual rack and pinion assembly (no hydraulic assist). There is also a chance that your rack is just worn; worn racks can make grinding and/or clunking noises when turning (wear in the assist servo), and/or have a 'dead spot (worn rack teeth), and/or be overly tight to turn, and/or have leaks or a burning oil smell, and/or have a 'wander' not explained by bad bushings or tie rod ends. Mnmmmm... also it occurred to me that any hammering could be absorbed with an air damper of some sort, but no one does that for some reason and I have not studied (and currently am not interested enough in) the issue to figure out why.

This issue has been addressed earlier on this forum, and if you wish you can avail yourself of those insights by reading the posts at the link I earlier posted.

As for the PS fluid -- typically manufacturers specify a clear hydraulic fluid or an automatic transmission fluid for the steering gear. You can't use plain old gear oil (such as a differential 85W or an engine 30W) largely because the gear oil is too heavy and both lack the anti-foam properties of hydraulic oils, and in use would foam up and cause cavitation in the pump. Simply defined, cavitation is formation of bubbles or cavities in low pressure areas around a moving pump impeller. Imploding or collapsing of these bubbles will happen as the impeller spins, triggering shockwaves inside the pump that can (will) cause damage to the impeller, the pump housing, or both.  

One typically uses the manufacturers recommendation for fluid but, again typically, can substitute a decent transmission fluid for "power steering fluid."  Problem is that sometimes the factory recommendation is driven in part by specific fluid or mechanical properties.  In cases where you can sub, a change to a different hydraulic fluid will sometimes yield improvement.  Hence Abaddon's comment about Dexron VI.  Abaddon would know, as a GM tech in a fairly busy shop that fluid switcheroo and many other maintenance and repair alternatives are known to him. . .


Last edited by albertj on Tue Mar 19, 2019 1:14 pm; edited 1 time in total
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carguy8888
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PostSubject: Re: Power steering pressure lines   Power steering pressure lines EmptyMon Mar 18, 2019 8:38 pm

I did read your previous post but I was curious about this gear. now that I had a minute to let it sink in I guess I'm going to try your goose juice or if it still bothers me I guess I have to have the rack redone which I'm not sure is going to happen.
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Abaddon
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PostSubject: Re: Power steering pressure lines   Power steering pressure lines EmptyTue Mar 19, 2019 9:20 am

carguy8888 wrote:
I did read your previous post but I was curious about this gear. now that I had a minute to let it sink in I guess I'm going to try your goose juice or if it still bothers me I guess I have to have the rack redone which I'm not sure is going to happen.

Your best chances of new, updated fluid helping your situation is to have the entire system flushed out and replaced. Personally, I'd put Dexron VI transmission fluid in it.
As for the flush, there is no flush machine that will do it correctly. Even the "flush" machine we have here is nothing more than a fluid transfer pump. I refuse to sell that service to anyone because it is a legitimate rip off. I built my own section of hose that allows me to remove the P/S Return hose from the Resevoir. I attach my hose to the Return Hose and then run it to a drain or pan on the floor. You will then need to plug the Return Hose nipple on the Resevoir. I have a funnel that I install into the fill cap hole. Fill it with Dexron VI, and start the car. It's best to have a helper keep the funnel full. Turn the steering wheel from lock to lock to lock etc until you've run about a gallon of fresh Dexron VI through the system. DO NOT ALLOW THE SYSTEM TO RUN DRY. This way gives all the built up dirt and grime an exit point, and leaves you with brand new, fresh fluid. Just put it all back together and check the fluid level.

That's what I would do.
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carguy8888
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PostSubject: Re: Power steering pressure lines   Power steering pressure lines EmptyTue Mar 19, 2019 9:26 am

Darn, I wish I put the dexron 6 transmission fluid when I changed the hoses, pause does it help?
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Abaddon
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PostSubject: Re: Power steering pressure lines   Power steering pressure lines EmptyTue Mar 19, 2019 9:33 am

carguy8888 wrote:
Darn, I wish I put the dexron 6 transmission fluid when I changed the hoses, pause does it help?

It certainly won't hurt. If anything, it may lessen the harshness of the pulses. It won't change the frequency, but it will lower the amplitude of it. That make sense?
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carguy8888
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PostSubject: Re: Power steering pressure lines   Power steering pressure lines EmptyTue Mar 19, 2019 9:35 am

It does feel a little better after the changing the lines and adding new regular power steering fluid but it's still noticeable.
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Abaddon
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PostSubject: Re: Power steering pressure lines   Power steering pressure lines EmptyTue Mar 19, 2019 9:37 am

Yeah it will probably never go away until the problem part is replaced. Only thing you can do is lessen it at this point.
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carguy8888
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PostSubject: Re: Power steering pressure lines   Power steering pressure lines EmptyTue Mar 19, 2019 10:02 am

The gear you're talking about means the rack needs to be rebuilt?
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Abaddon
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PostSubject: Re: Power steering pressure lines   Power steering pressure lines EmptyTue Mar 19, 2019 1:40 pm

carguy8888 wrote:
The gear you're talking about means the rack needs to be rebuilt?

Steering Gear = Rack and Pinion

They are no longer available new, and the one you buy will be remanufactured. Please don't cheap out on one if you do buy. Get a Delco reman, or a Lifetime warranty reman aftermarket. Anything less usually fails within a year....all due to the shitty rebuild. That's just my experience, anyway.
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albertj
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PostSubject: Re: Power steering pressure lines   Power steering pressure lines EmptyTue Mar 19, 2019 4:18 pm

Abaddon wrote:
carguy8888 wrote:
The gear you're talking about means the rack needs to be rebuilt?

Steering Gear = Rack and Pinion

They are no longer available new, and the one you buy will be remanufactured. Please don't cheap out on one if you do buy. Get a Delco reman, or a Lifetime warranty reman aftermarket. Anything less usually fails within a year....all due to the shitty rebuild. That's just my experience, anyway.

I don't know if it is still true, but I had heard that the Delco remans worked better than the same-application new racks.
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carguy8888
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PostSubject: Re: Power steering pressure lines   Power steering pressure lines EmptyTue Mar 19, 2019 6:25 pm

Thank you both, next step is the Lucas goose juice lol, A rack is not happening.
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