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albertj
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albertj

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PostSubject: Re: 1997 Rivera :)   1997 Rivera :) - Page 2 EmptyMon Oct 07, 2019 12:20 pm

I just remembered something Tyler. The mechanic that installed that engine may not have remembered that you can "clock" that model GM alternator - that is, take the case halves apart and rotate them. He probably installed it as he did so the connectors would connect and maybe did not know that sometimes you have to pull the bolts out, separate the halves slightly and rotate one half versus another to make the mounting points all line up, when you get a reman or junkyard alternator.

When you do that with a JY alternator it's good practice to file the commutator smooth to eliminate any bridging, and inspect/replace the brushes and bearings. The toughest bearing is the nose one because you have to pull the pulley. Need an impact wrench to get the bolt off - it's not torqued on too tight but you have to depend on inertia to hold the rotor still and that won't really happen by hand. You *might* be able to use hand tools by holding the fan on the nose still with a rod of some sort. Careful not to bend the fan blades, that's a whole 'nother problem.
And if you use a hand impact it can whak the needle bearing in the tail case. .
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EyeDoc1
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PostSubject: Re: 1997 Rivera :)   1997 Rivera :) - Page 2 EmptyMon Oct 07, 2019 3:04 pm

Is there any chance the harmonic balancer is causing the vibration issues or does that particular part cause a constant vibration at any speed? I also note in the first picture that your wiring harness loom is missing from the top of the supercharger, and somehow having wires rubbing on metal when tooling down the highway of life can't be good for the wires, long term. Might want to look at motors that haven't been modified to see the proper setup. It's a good junkyard part that probably will set you back a couple of bucks.
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albertj
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albertj

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PostSubject: Re: 1997 Rivera :)   1997 Rivera :) - Page 2 EmptyMon Oct 07, 2019 6:01 pm

EyeDoc1 wrote:
Is there any chance the harmonic balancer is causing the vibration issues or does that particular part cause a constant vibration at any speed?  I also note in the first picture that your wiring harness loom is missing from the top of the supercharger, and somehow having wires rubbing on metal when tooling down the highway of life can't be good for the wires, long term.  Might want to look at motors that haven't been modified to see the proper setup.  It's a good junkyard part that probably will set you back a couple of bucks.

My guess is the vibes are coming through the rigged brace on top of the engine where the sound cover is supposed to be, abetted by the absence of the sound cover, and probably worsened by worn engine mounts. Aftermarket mounts are harder than OE ones and so they buss. Also, some mechanics get the mount inserts in backwards, which makes them even buzzier. It's an odd firing engine so without the balance shaft and isolating mounts it is very buzzy; with them everything has to be right or it's - well - annoying.

The OE balancers are great, unless they are horsed on R&R. If you have to replace it get an OE or JY one, or a Dayco (about 1/2 the price of a Delco I think). Better elastomer insert... and don't forget to get a new Woodruff key.

But hey that's only a guessssss. study
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xxlifesucksxxx
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Name : Tyler
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1997 Rivera :) - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: 1997 Rivera :)   1997 Rivera :) - Page 2 EmptyMon Oct 07, 2019 7:12 pm

albertj wrote:
EyeDoc1 wrote:
Is there any chance the harmonic balancer is causing the vibration issues or does that particular part cause a constant vibration at any speed?  I also note in the first picture that your wiring harness loom is missing from the top of the supercharger, and somehow having wires rubbing on metal when tooling down the highway of life can't be good for the wires, long term.  Might want to look at motors that haven't been modified to see the proper setup.  It's a good junkyard part that probably will set you back a couple of bucks.

My guess is the vibes are coming through the rigged brace on top of the engine where the sound cover is supposed to be, abetted by the absence of the sound cover, and probably worsened by worn engine mounts. Aftermarket mounts are harder than OE ones and so they buss.  Also, some mechanics get the mount inserts in backwards, which makes them even buzzier. It's an odd firing engine so without the balance shaft and isolating mounts it is very buzzy; with them everything has to be right or it's - well - annoying.  

The OE balancers are great, unless they are horsed on R&R. If you have to replace it get an OE or JY one, or a Dayco (about 1/2 the price of a Delco I think). Better elastomer insert... and don't forget to get a new Woodruff key.

But hey that's only a guessssss. study

doesnt just vibrate. under 1.5k rpm it "knocks" but not from the engine. i think its from the tensioner. hope tomorrow ill be able top share the video of it
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xxlifesucksxxx
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Name : Tyler
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1997 Rivera :) - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: 1997 Rivera :)   1997 Rivera :) - Page 2 EmptyMon Oct 07, 2019 7:42 pm

albertj wrote:
I just remembered something Tyler.  The mechanic that installed that engine may not have remembered that you can "clock" that model GM alternator - that is, take the case halves apart and rotate them.  He probably installed it as he did so the connectors would connect and maybe did not know that sometimes you have to pull the bolts out, separate the halves slightly  and rotate one half versus another to make the mounting points all line up, when you get a reman or junkyard alternator.

When you do that with a JY alternator it's good practice to file the commutator smooth to eliminate any bridging, and inspect/replace the brushes and bearings. The toughest bearing is the nose one because you have to pull the pulley.  Need an impact wrench to get the bolt off - it's not torqued on too tight but you have to depend on inertia to hold the rotor still and that won't really happen by hand.  You *might* be able to use hand tools by holding the fan on the nose still with a rod of some sort. Careful not to bend the fan blades, that's a whole 'nother problem.
And if you use a hand impact it can whak the needle bearing in the tail case. .  

possible. about to upload some pics. the whole alt setup is messed up. its installed... ehh
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xxlifesucksxxx
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Name : Tyler
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1997 Rivera :) - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: 1997 Rivera :)   1997 Rivera :) - Page 2 EmptyFri Oct 11, 2019 8:15 pm

So what's getting somewhere. Haven't messed with the car anymore it's rained here for a few days.

Anyways from my research I've came up with a few things. So let's see what we can come up with.

The tensioner set up looks to be part number 19107110. Which is a later model l67 setup. Gtp, regal, Bonneville, and a 99 Riveira.





With the gold fuel rail and with it have a broke upper motor mount bracket on the driver side has led me to a few different cars. The one I noticed most like it is the 04/05 Monte Carlo SS. So no telling at all.

So I'm needing to source a 97-98 Riviera tensioner setup to fix the alternator mounting problem.


Also any idea on what to do about the steering wheel. Left side of bracket is broke and right side pin is gone. Thought I found the support piece but can't order it. Some pretty serious play in it.

From the looks of it when I get the riv tensioner I need to rotate the alternator counter clockwise and mount the long ear of the alternator to the bolt in center of the tensioner. Right side to the ear on the tensioner. What mounts to the left ear on the alternator?
1997 Rivera :) - Page 2 Img_2021
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EyeDoc1
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Name : Christen
Location : Vancouver, WA
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1997 Rivera :) - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: 1997 Rivera :)   1997 Rivera :) - Page 2 EmptySat Oct 12, 2019 3:04 pm

Here's some pictures of my 1998 Riveria, deadlined at present due to a mystery oil leak (see that thread posted elsewhere).  I just replaced the lower intake manifold (LIM) gasket and cleaned the motor to see if I can isolate the source, which appears to be in the vicinity of the power steering pump.  But I've got it all put together and took some shots pour vous this AM

1997 Rivera :) - Page 2 IMG_1365

1997 Rivera :) - Page 2 IMG_1366

Hope this helps
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xxlifesucksxxx
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Name : Tyler
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1997 Rivera :) - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: 1997 Rivera :)   1997 Rivera :) - Page 2 EmptySat Oct 12, 2019 9:24 pm

EyeDoc1 wrote:
Here's some pictures of my 1998 Riveria, deadlined at present due to a mystery oil leak (see that thread posted elsewhere).  I just replaced the lower intake manifold (LIM) gasket and cleaned the motor to see if I can isolate the source, which appears to be in the vicinity of the power steering pump.  But I've got it all put together and took some shots pour vous this AM

1997 Rivera :) - Page 2 IMG_1365

1997 Rivera :) - Page 2 IMG_1366

Hope this helps


Your pics aren't showing up for some Reason :/.

Sooner or later I'm going to have to do the same. But as of now it's my only running vehicle lol. Other one I've had to replace 5 alternators in the past 2 years.

Here is a video of the sound at idle. Hard to see the vibration bit it's there. It's vibrating with the noise.

https://youtu.be/6IXHjV-rkW0


Edit: your pictures don't work on this end
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stan
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1997 Rivera :) - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: 1997 Rivera :)   1997 Rivera :) - Page 2 EmptySun Oct 13, 2019 5:48 am

I also can't see pics.
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Jack the R
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Jack the R

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1997 Rivera :) - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: 1997 Rivera :)   1997 Rivera :) - Page 2 EmptySun Oct 13, 2019 2:36 pm

Stan, your image links are only a file name.  You have to have a url, like this -

https://i.servimg.com/u/f94/20/11/95/13/img_2020.jpg

if you put the above in the image tags, it will display the image -

1997 Rivera :) - Page 2 Img_2020

Hit the quote button to see what the html for the above image is, if it isn't clear.
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xxlifesucksxxx
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Name : Tyler
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PostSubject: Re: 1997 Rivera :)   1997 Rivera :) - Page 2 EmptyFri Oct 18, 2019 11:38 am

Thanks for the help guys. Hopefully one day I'll get more progress done.

I had the codes scanned for the check engine light.
The 2 I remember were p0118 And p0705. Neither are too major really. Other 2 codes were for random misfire and had pedal? I figured the random misfire was from a lot of different things.

I need to check my vacuum lines. I noticed the t for the vacuum line under the super charger snout is broke.

It's currently 42 degrees here. (north Alabama) and my heat doesn't work. My temp stays around 140, figured bad thermostat next week getting a Riviera tensioner and a new thermostat. The heater hose leaks pretty bad so I try not to run the heat anyways. So hopefully next week we will get alot of things straightened out.
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albertj
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albertj

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PostSubject: Re: 1997 Rivera :)   1997 Rivera :) - Page 2 EmptyFri Oct 18, 2019 3:43 pm

For that P0118, when you replace the thermostat you'll need to burp the coolant system.  Might take care of it however, the code means the engine temp input to the PCM is stuck high.  So check the wiring else your gas mileage is going to stink among other problems.  It's actually a pretty important code.  

P0705 is a wack transmission range sensor (switch).  You'd want to check that the engine will crank in only park and neutral.  My guess is there's a wiring fault and your car would start in any gear as it is now. However, be sure the gear indicated on the instrument cluster is the gear you're shifted into as indicated on the gear selector lever.

As for that Vac line, that's a Fix Me Now item. Without full vacuum neither the supercharger nor the fuel rail pressure regulator not the MAP sensor will work 100% right.

Once you get that Riviera tensioner you may need to re-clock the alternator to get it to fit back on the engine. Re-clock just means remove the thru bolts on the alternator case and turn the case so that the hole line up right for mounting.  Look at those pictures others posted to figure how it should be aligned.


Last edited by albertj on Fri Oct 18, 2019 9:32 pm; edited 1 time in total
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xxlifesucksxxx
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Name : Tyler
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PostSubject: Re: 1997 Rivera :)   1997 Rivera :) - Page 2 EmptyFri Oct 18, 2019 5:31 pm

Ahh. I saw where someone changed the pigtail to the sensor go fix his p0118.

Atm I'm averaging about 11mpg. $10 at $2.18/ gallon gets me about 55miles. I only use it to drive to work about 35 miles a week. So it's rarely drove alot.

For the range sensor. Before I replugged the sensors on the transmission it did crank in reverse. Haven't tried again but now the indicator is working before it wasn't.

Going to try to take care of that vacumm line and tensioner asap that's my 2 priorities. Limited money atm. That might be causing my random misfire.

For the alternator I need to clock it back about 44 degrees it looks like. I got the manual on alldata for now it shows some good stuff. Not all but alot.
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stan
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PostSubject: Re: 1997 Rivera :)   1997 Rivera :) - Page 2 EmptyFri Oct 18, 2019 6:27 pm

Jack yes, I can see the picture now. Thanx.
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albertj
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1997 Rivera :) - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: 1997 Rivera :)   1997 Rivera :) - Page 2 EmptyFri Oct 18, 2019 9:43 pm

Check your Alldata for the location and wiring of the engine temperature sensor(s). IIRC there's more than one but it's late, I don't have my manuals handy, so I could be way wrong on that. All other tings being OK your mileage should be higher...

On an unmodified Riviera your mileage will also improve if you burn premium instead of regular... but fix the sensor nonsense first. On the Riv the ECU is supposed to retard timing to prevent knock if you burn lower octane gas - the more retarded it is the worse your mileage gets. It advances timing to get more power out of higher octane gas. So -- after you fix the sensors it will take 1-2 tank fulls of premium to see a difference. If you are really into it you can modify the fuel maps to do better on regular gas but that will not give you the equivalent to the OE fuel map and burning premium.
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xxlifesucksxxx
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1997 Rivera :) - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: 1997 Rivera :)   1997 Rivera :) - Page 2 EmptySun Nov 03, 2019 7:56 am

Meh. Story of my life :'(.

Halloween night as I was going through a 4 way someone hot me. As to what to do now I'm not sure.

1997 Rivera :) - Page 2 Img_2023
1997 Rivera :) - Page 2 Img_2022
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Jack the R
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Jack the R

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1997 Rivera :) - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: 1997 Rivera :)   1997 Rivera :) - Page 2 EmptySun Nov 03, 2019 10:33 am

You picked the right username, that's for sure.  On a positive note, you're alive, and a $500 car kept you alive.  Did the other guy have insurance?  Does the car need more than a door and a front fender to repair?  I mean, it looks totaled given that these aren't valuable cars, but I don't know what your situation is.
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xxlifesucksxxx
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Name : Tyler
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1997 Rivera :) - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: 1997 Rivera :)   1997 Rivera :) - Page 2 EmptySun Nov 03, 2019 12:27 pm

Ehh.. ive been unable to get a license for a few years now. I have no insurance. I know I know very bad, but I have to work. It's only me. Both parents are passed. I have no one. I work part time at a gas station. Just trying to live :/

But I'm going to hire a attorney. She is at fault. Going to call around tomorrow and see what direction they point me in.

As for the damage. The pass side tie rod is bent. The steering is turned straight but the wheel is turned. The driver's side is leaned inwards. I'm tried to take as many pictures as possible. I was managed to drive it to work to prevent it from being towed to a yard. Going to try to get it home next week and remove the door and fender., But I can already notice small frame damage. :/
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Jack the R
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Jack the R

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PostSubject: Re: 1997 Rivera :)   1997 Rivera :) - Page 2 EmptySun Nov 03, 2019 2:15 pm

A rough situation. It sounds like your Riv is out of action for a while, if it's worth saving. Sorry to hear you're on your own. I hope you're able to manage this.
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xxlifesucksxxx
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PostSubject: Re: 1997 Rivera :)   1997 Rivera :) - Page 2 EmptySun Nov 03, 2019 3:07 pm

Hardest part is seeing if its worth saving or not. After I talk to some attorneys tomorrow maybe they will point me in the right direction.

As for plans after I get it home I'm going to start taking it apart to see all the damage. If all fails I'll pull the swap. Put it at the back of my property either part every out ad let it sit.

I know where a 01 Monte Carlo SS is so that would be my next project. Sucks because I really loved the riveira but it all depends on what all is actually done. And estimates from body shops but if the driver at fault is reliable for it I'm all in to save it
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Jack the R
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Jack the R

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1997 Rivera :) - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: 1997 Rivera :)   1997 Rivera :) - Page 2 EmptySun Nov 03, 2019 5:31 pm

I suppose you didn't call a cop to the scene of the accident due to not having a license? I'd imagine that will make it hard to go to court, but I'm not a lawyer.
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carguy8888
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1997 Rivera :) - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: 1997 Rivera :)   1997 Rivera :) - Page 2 EmptySun Nov 03, 2019 5:44 pm

It's a really good thing nobody was hurt in the passenger seat. Where are you located?
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xxlifesucksxxx
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PostSubject: Re: 1997 Rivera :)   1997 Rivera :) - Page 2 EmptySun Nov 03, 2019 11:14 pm

We called the police. A state trooper worked the accident. I'm going in 10 days to get the report.

As far as I know, no one was hurt. Everyone refused ambulance. So it could have always been worse.

But it renders me carless and no way to my job so I'm screwed on that part :/. Good news is hopefully I'll get it home and replace the tie rod and just get it road ready again I may have a lead on a parts car for the door and fender for now. 1997 Rivera :) - Page 2 Img_2027
1997 Rivera :) - Page 2 Img_2026
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Jack the R
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Jack the R

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1997 Rivera :) - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: 1997 Rivera :)   1997 Rivera :) - Page 2 EmptyMon Nov 04, 2019 10:57 am

Well, it sounds like it's not all bad news. Good luck getting it back on the road!
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