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 Aftermarket Speakers???

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AA
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PostSubject: Re: Aftermarket Speakers???   Tue May 27, 2008 9:03 am

IBx1 wrote:
No, the bass definitely tops out at a certain level where the audio computer is set to make it so. If I turn the volume down from above that limit, the bass level stays the same until I reach the top and then it goes down. Not a decibel of distortion, by the way.

This may be a function of the "loudness" curve built in to most receivers nowadays. The bass (and treble) gets softer compared to the midrange as you turn up the volume. This is to compensate for the human ear's lack of sensitivity to high and low sounds at low volume levels.

Distortion is measured in %, not dB. The common listener will not notice up to 10% distortion in the bass range, and that is using a subwoofer - the lowest distortion method for reproducing bass. Some listeners actually do hear the distortion in bass, but mistakenly identify it as "punch". Using 6x9"s to produce low bass, and doing so without an amp, you can be sure to get fairly copious amounts of distortion, both clipping and harmonic, when you turn up the volume to a comfortable level.

Not that this is a bad thing. If you can't hear the distortion, or you like what you hear - that's all that really matters.

_________________
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PostSubject: Re: Aftermarket Speakers???   Thu May 29, 2008 3:05 am

Aaron - check this out:

Basslink II

It's the Infinity Basslink II - apparently they've upgraded it?

EDIT: Heh, apparently they've discontinued this badboy, at least at Crutchfield. A lot of people were having trouble with it (but not the original Basslink).
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PostSubject: Re: Aftermarket Speakers???   Thu May 29, 2008 6:36 am

AA wrote:

Distortion is measured in %, not dB.

rolleyes You know what I mean.
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PostSubject: Re: Aftermarket Speakers???   Thu May 29, 2008 9:21 am

Quote :
You know what I mean.

Yes, but it's better to use the correct terms.

I would not even consider that new BassLink II without reading up. BassLink I was proven product. Notice the prices are about the same for each? That's how it goes in the car audio world, Newer isn't necessarily better, and often it's not.

_________________
'98 SC Riviera 281k miles 298 HP/370 TQ 0-60: 5.79s ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 4087 lb 20.1 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley AL104 plugs 180 t-stat FWI w/K&N 1.9:1 rockers OR pushrods LS6 valve springs SLP headers ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts MaxAir shocks Addco sway bars UMI bushings GM STB Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus SS lines Brembo slotted discs DHP tuned Aeroforce Hidden Hitch

^^^ SOLD ^^^ frown

'05 GTO 85k miles 0-60: 4.8s 16.9 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun


'70 Olds Ninety-Eight Holiday Coupe 116k miles 455 Rocket V8
Because cool


'95 Celica 152k miles 0-60: yes
Because free
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PostSubject: Re: Aftermarket Speakers???   Thu May 29, 2008 1:33 pm

Well, I didn't know the correct terms. Anyway, my friend was considering a BassLink II for his '05 Liberty, not sure what they're like though.
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PostSubject: Re: Aftermarket Speakers???   Thu May 29, 2008 2:03 pm

I continued reading up on this Basslink II. The big special feature of this was an extra 50W output, as well as the option to install an expansion 4 channel amp to power your other speakers.

Sounds so very good on paper.

Then take a look at the Crutchfield reviews. A shitload of people had to return the amp section, the "main" section, and multiple times, too. I'm guessing that Crutchfield started losing money on these, so they just decided not to carry it anymore - a wise business decision.

The original Basslink has great reviews no matter where you go. Amazon, Crutchfield. Occasionally, someone put their bad review for the Basslink II in the Basslink I product description.

I think you should tell your friend to just go with the orignal Basslink.
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PostSubject: Re: Aftermarket Speakers???   Thu May 29, 2008 2:30 pm

Sometimes simpler is better. A powered sub should make bass. It doesn't have to do anything else, really. Those other options really aren't needed, and they can complicate things.

And that 50 watt boost isn't what it seems. Sound power is different than engine power. 50 watts is pretty loud by itself - it sounds twice as loud (+10 dB) as 5 watts, which is a good listening level. But compare 50 watts to 40 watts, most people cannot tell the difference unless you switch back and forth to compare. This is because powering speakers increases exponentially, not on a linear scale. As you increase, you need bigger changes to make a difference.

So, the original Basslink makes a healthy 200 watts, I think. To gain double it's output, you'd need 10 times the power, or 2000 watts. Now, think about what you get by adding "only" 50 watts to the original 200. Not much at all from your ear's perspective, because 250 watts sounds just a little louder than 200.

_________________
'98 SC Riviera 281k miles 298 HP/370 TQ 0-60: 5.79s ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 4087 lb 20.1 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley AL104 plugs 180 t-stat FWI w/K&N 1.9:1 rockers OR pushrods LS6 valve springs SLP headers ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts MaxAir shocks Addco sway bars UMI bushings GM STB Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus SS lines Brembo slotted discs DHP tuned Aeroforce Hidden Hitch

^^^ SOLD ^^^ frown

'05 GTO 85k miles 0-60: 4.8s 16.9 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun


'70 Olds Ninety-Eight Holiday Coupe 116k miles 455 Rocket V8
Because cool


'95 Celica 152k miles 0-60: yes
Because free
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PostSubject: Re: Aftermarket Speakers???   Thu May 29, 2008 2:47 pm

Never knew that about speaker output. As far as proper terms go, it's a logarithmic curve, which slows down as it goes up. The higher the wattage, the less of a difference in noticable power compared to a previous measurement.
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PostSubject: Re: Aftermarket Speakers???   Thu May 29, 2008 3:04 pm

The perception of the the sound is logarithmic; the power increase itself is exponential.

_________________
'98 SC Riviera 281k miles 298 HP/370 TQ 0-60: 5.79s ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 4087 lb 20.1 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley AL104 plugs 180 t-stat FWI w/K&N 1.9:1 rockers OR pushrods LS6 valve springs SLP headers ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts MaxAir shocks Addco sway bars UMI bushings GM STB Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus SS lines Brembo slotted discs DHP tuned Aeroforce Hidden Hitch

^^^ SOLD ^^^ frown

'05 GTO 85k miles 0-60: 4.8s 16.9 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun


'70 Olds Ninety-Eight Holiday Coupe 116k miles 455 Rocket V8
Because cool


'95 Celica 152k miles 0-60: yes
Because free
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PostSubject: Re: Aftermarket Speakers???   Thu May 29, 2008 3:55 pm

Excellent analyzation!

Kinda like how earthquakes are measured, heh heh.

I know I'll be repeating this info to someone else in the future.
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PostSubject: Re: Aftermarket Speakers???   Sat Jul 12, 2008 5:47 pm

After reading this thread, I replaced my stock front and back speakers with Infinity Reference series speakers. I left the stock tweeters up front disconnected. What a great improvement! It was easy to install and didn't cost much at all. Thanks everyone for the great tips you provided.

I recommend swapping in the Infinty Reference series speakers if you just want the easiest, cheapest stereo upgrade. They sound great with the stock head unit and you will be very happy with the improvement.
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PostSubject: Re: Aftermarket Speakers???   Sat Jul 12, 2008 6:58 pm

Thanks for the update, Steve! Glad you are pleased with your new set-up.

_________________
'98 SC Riviera 281k miles 298 HP/370 TQ 0-60: 5.79s ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 4087 lb 20.1 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley AL104 plugs 180 t-stat FWI w/K&N 1.9:1 rockers OR pushrods LS6 valve springs SLP headers ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts MaxAir shocks Addco sway bars UMI bushings GM STB Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus SS lines Brembo slotted discs DHP tuned Aeroforce Hidden Hitch

^^^ SOLD ^^^ frown

'05 GTO 85k miles 0-60: 4.8s 16.9 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun


'70 Olds Ninety-Eight Holiday Coupe 116k miles 455 Rocket V8
Because cool


'95 Celica 152k miles 0-60: yes
Because free
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PostSubject: Infinity Speakers   Sun Aug 03, 2008 8:10 pm

I have seen many people talk about the Reference speakers. I am looking at getting a set for my riv. Are these the ones everyone talks about Infinity Reference 9623i . Also do they fit without chaning the mounting bracket at all?
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PostSubject: Re: Aftermarket Speakers???   Sun Aug 03, 2008 8:25 pm

Both the Reference and Kappa series get great reviews. They are both good for different reasons:

Reference:

Very efficient. You get more output per watt than with most speakers. Great for using when keeping the stock head unit and no amplifier.

Decent midbass response. These speakers kick pretty hard with moderate power.

Less expensive. Reasonable price for a quality driver with a good name like Infinity.

Kappa:

Optimum sound quality, but should use an amplifier or aftermarket head to supply the power they need.

Better crossover network for more realistic sound reproduction. Extended high-frequency response from better quality tweeters.

More expensive build materials provide a cool look.

_________________
'98 SC Riviera 281k miles 298 HP/370 TQ 0-60: 5.79s ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 4087 lb 20.1 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley AL104 plugs 180 t-stat FWI w/K&N 1.9:1 rockers OR pushrods LS6 valve springs SLP headers ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts MaxAir shocks Addco sway bars UMI bushings GM STB Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus SS lines Brembo slotted discs DHP tuned Aeroforce Hidden Hitch

^^^ SOLD ^^^ frown

'05 GTO 85k miles 0-60: 4.8s 16.9 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun


'70 Olds Ninety-Eight Holiday Coupe 116k miles 455 Rocket V8
Because cool


'95 Celica 152k miles 0-60: yes
Because free
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http://www.cardomain.com/ride/657082/4
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PostSubject: Re: Aftermarket Speakers???   Sun Dec 06, 2009 5:34 pm

http://www.crutchfield.com/p_237XT55/XTC-5-1-4-Speaker-Baffles-3-3-4-depth.html?tp=660

Do those do anything to enhance sound of the speaker? I'm looking for something to get some more out of my aftermarket front door speakers.
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PostSubject: Re: Aftermarket Speakers???   Sun Dec 06, 2009 6:33 pm

Not sure, but at that price, try them and let us know. If they are flexible foam, I doubt they will effect the sound much. If they were a more rigid plastic, you could expect a boost in mid-bass response.

_________________
'98 SC Riviera 281k miles 298 HP/370 TQ 0-60: 5.79s ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 4087 lb 20.1 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley AL104 plugs 180 t-stat FWI w/K&N 1.9:1 rockers OR pushrods LS6 valve springs SLP headers ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts MaxAir shocks Addco sway bars UMI bushings GM STB Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus SS lines Brembo slotted discs DHP tuned Aeroforce Hidden Hitch

^^^ SOLD ^^^ frown

'05 GTO 85k miles 0-60: 4.8s 16.9 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun


'70 Olds Ninety-Eight Holiday Coupe 116k miles 455 Rocket V8
Because cool


'95 Celica 152k miles 0-60: yes
Because free
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http://www.cardomain.com/ride/657082/4
Ryan from Ohio
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PostSubject: Re: Aftermarket Speakers???   Sun Dec 06, 2009 7:39 pm

Those are meant to keep moisture from touching the speakers.

Its a huge problem in door applications.
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PostSubject: Re: Aftermarket Speakers???   Sun Dec 06, 2009 8:02 pm

I think I'm going to give them a try.

There's more to it and my plans are not set in stone yet but I am probably going to get these for the front for Christmas.

http://www.crutchfield.com/p_107DB5251/Polk-Audio-db5251.html?tp=106

There's a few things that bother me about my current system that I want to change and that's a large part of it. Anyone have any opinion of that product? I use the same series by Polk audio for my rear 6x9's now and they are solid but I'd like to hear your thoughts.

I'll lay out my current and planned system either on this thread or a more fitting thread to get more into it.
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PostSubject: Re: Aftermarket Speakers???   Sun Dec 06, 2009 8:48 pm

I think that the stock speakers already have a similar plastic covering behind them so I dont think those will help at all. Pop off the cover and take a look behind the speaker and you will know for sure. Not very hard speaker has 4 screws holding it in and the cover is just clips that pop off.
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PostSubject: Re: Aftermarket Speakers???   Sun Dec 06, 2009 10:30 pm

parrot5254 wrote:
I think that the stock speakers already have a similar plastic covering behind them so I dont think those will help at all. Pop off the cover and take a look behind the speaker and you will know for sure. Not very hard speaker has 4 screws holding it in and the cover is just clips that pop off.

I don't remember seeing such a thing but I'll certainly take another look before I order anything.
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PostSubject: Re: Aftermarket Speakers???   Sun Dec 06, 2009 10:33 pm

Photobucket

That is my plan. The subwoofers aren't in the diagram because they are not really changing. Left side is the current setup and the right side is the plan as of now.
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PostSubject: Re: Aftermarket Speakers???   Mon Dec 07, 2009 8:36 am

Right side looks like a good plan, or you could invest the amp money into a better 2-channel unit, like this.



The idea would be to use a dedicated amp to send a more powerful, cleaner signal to the front components - it's your personal preference, of course.

_________________
'98 SC Riviera 281k miles 298 HP/370 TQ 0-60: 5.79s ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 4087 lb 20.1 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley AL104 plugs 180 t-stat FWI w/K&N 1.9:1 rockers OR pushrods LS6 valve springs SLP headers ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts MaxAir shocks Addco sway bars UMI bushings GM STB Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus SS lines Brembo slotted discs DHP tuned Aeroforce Hidden Hitch

^^^ SOLD ^^^ frown

'05 GTO 85k miles 0-60: 4.8s 16.9 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun


'70 Olds Ninety-Eight Holiday Coupe 116k miles 455 Rocket V8
Because cool


'95 Celica 152k miles 0-60: yes
Because free
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http://www.cardomain.com/ride/657082/4
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PostSubject: Re: Aftermarket Speakers???   Tue Dec 08, 2009 2:00 am

Ok so the plan which is pretty well in motion is this.
The pics within the diagrams above are fully true to the components.
There's one more thing I'm adding for fun...
http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/Products/CarAudioVideo/Accessories/AV-Components/DEQ-9200?tab=B

So the part list is this..
Front speakers: Polk db5251 components
Rear speakers: Polk db691 6x9's
Amp for speakers: Alpine MRP-F240 4channel
head unit: Pioneer DEH-P80MP
preamp EQ: DEQ9200
Subs: (2x) Infinity Perfect 12.1 - ported enclosure
Amp for subs: Sony XM-1600GSD 1channel
Capacitor for both amps: Poweramper 3farad

Wiring to amps is 4gauge + & - cables directly from the battery to the cap and 8gauge + & - to each amp from the capacitor.

One thing I'd like to know is what signal (RCA) cables are high quality and noise free and not overpriced? I want to get one that's a 4channel bundle (two right and left signals) for the full range amp.
Also what is a some high quality speaker wire that I could get a roll of to run from the amp to the front speaker system?

thanks audiophiles!
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PostSubject: Re: Aftermarket Speakers???   Tue Dec 08, 2009 6:41 am

www.knukonceptz.com

Im not a fan of the Polk speakers.

You could get a better set for less money...
http://massiveaudio.com/store/product.php?productid=16176&cat=274&page=1

http://www.caraudiocentral.net/forums/showthread.php?t=11341

They seem to be very stout and smooth setup. I havent got any complaints or negatives on them yet.

The worst thing you can do is move to quickly without planning.

That EQ is expensive, hope you are getting a super steal on it. Not worth 1/2 of what they MSRP it at.
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PostSubject: Re: Aftermarket Speakers???   Tue Dec 08, 2009 7:47 am

x2 on the eq. You can get much more for the money. That eq has been in production for at least 15 years. You could get a far better eq/processor for the money or even throw that money at a better head unit with built in eq/processor.
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