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 0KR ...now what!?

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Mr.Riviera
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PostSubject: 0KR ...now what!?   Thu Sep 27, 2007 5:30 am

so i just got back in from another scan and i am running 0KR all the time. i was peaking at like 2* before i had the 3" DP and cat delete. its 78* out right now and very high humidity. also, i was sitting for awhile so IAT's were high (~115*) but coolant temps were no higher than 185*. i did several runs from 0-60 and one from 0-90 and didnt peak above 1* KR. (my friend was scanning with his HP tuner in the passenger seat) i almost wonder if my knock sensors are not working lol but she pulled hard all the way to 90 .
02's are looking great and so are LTFT and STFT. LTFT rarely goes outside +-8 and locks at -3 @ WOT (i cant remember if thats rich or lean)

what i dont understand is why my timing is at 12* WOT. is that stock settings? any way i can get some more time at WOT? or do i just need to wait for cooler, dry weather?

i have another friend with DHP software and the open L67 file. he will be giving me a small tune sometime in the near future. what would you guys recommend i change? so far i want;
speed limiter set to 130
fan turn on if temps >210*, and stay on until temps <190
up transmission line pressure (to what? and are there any down sides to this?)
maybe a few more deg of timing at WOT
O2 catalytic code removed
fans run 60 sec after car off, if temps >205
anything else? shift points? air fuel? performance shift mode?
thanks for any and all input,
Matthew

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1996 with 244k miles, L324" FWI -> ported N* -> Ported Gen V w/3.0" Pulley, Stage 3 Phenolic I/C, ZZP FMHE, 1.84 RR, Headers and 3" pipe to mufflers, F-body brakes, and lowered on Eibachs.
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PostSubject: Re: 0KR ...now what!?   Thu Sep 27, 2007 5:44 am

-3 LTFT at WOT means rich, as it is pulling back on fuel. A positive number means it's adding fuel, as it detects a lean condition. I believe ideal at WOT would be zero. Don't know the implications of a -3 reading. If you have swapped in a cooler t-stat, you may want to have the fans turn on at a lower temp. Mine will be set to 185 turn on, with a 180 tstat. Performance shift, YES. Ask Aaron about that. Bump your shift rpm's to maybe 5600, without a cam or rockers.
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PostSubject: Re: 0KR ...now what!?   Thu Sep 27, 2007 9:17 pm

Mr.Riviera wrote:
so i just got back in from another scan and i am running 0KR all the time. i was peaking at like 2* before i had the 3" DP and cat delete. its 78* out right now and very high humidity. also, i was sitting for awhile so IAT's were high (~115*) but coolant temps were no higher than 185*. i did several runs from 0-60 and one from 0-90 and didnt peak above 1* KR. (my friend was scanning with his HP tuner in the passenger seat) i almost wonder if my knock sensors are not working lol but she pulled hard all the way to 90 .
02's are looking great and so are LTFT and STFT. LTFT rarely goes outside +-8 and locks at -3 @ WOT (i cant remember if thats rich or lean)

what i dont understand is why my timing is at 12* WOT. is that stock settings? any way i can get some more time at WOT? or do i just need to wait for cooler, dry weather?

i have another friend with DHP software and the open L67 file. he will be giving me a small tune sometime in the near future. what would you guys recommend i change? so far i want;
speed limiter set to 130
fan turn on if temps >210*, and stay on until temps <190
up transmission line pressure (to what? and are there any down sides to this?)
maybe a few more deg of timing at WOT
O2 catalytic code removed
fans run 60 sec after car off, if temps >205
anything else? shift points? air fuel? performance shift mode?
thanks for any and all input,
Matthew

you cannot adjust the transmission shift pressures on a 96. you have to do it another way. I forget how exactly, but long story short, its best to wait until you have to rebuild it.

also, I couldnt get my fans to stay on after the car is turned off, now matter how hot the car is. Again, another feature probably not available on 96's. you can safely raise your shift points maybe 200rpms higher, I wouldnt go higher without head/rocker mods. make sure to remove all abuse control features also. Then you will be flying. You will hear your car rev like never before. mine came alive after a PT.
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PostSubject: Re: 0KR ...now what!?   Thu Sep 27, 2007 10:33 pm

to adjust shift pressure you need a adjustable shift modulator.



Pictures in the link below about installation

http://www.bonnevilleclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=53285&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0


I have one on my car best $17 I spent on the tranny.
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Mr.Riviera
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PostSubject: Re: 0KR ...now what!?   Thu Sep 27, 2007 11:53 pm

"abuse control features" what are those??
i will probably leave the stock shift points alone, 200rpm isnt really that much difference.
my trans shifts pretty well now, but i may just get a zzp shift kit if i cant tune it.

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1996 with 244k miles, L324" FWI -> ported N* -> Ported Gen V w/3.0" Pulley, Stage 3 Phenolic I/C, ZZP FMHE, 1.84 RR, Headers and 3" pipe to mufflers, F-body brakes, and lowered on Eibachs.
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PostSubject: Re: 0KR ...now what!?   Fri Sep 28, 2007 12:27 am

The humidity probably helped your KR. I've noticed I have less knock on rainy days, probably works like a mild form of water injection. Re-scan the next dry air day you have.

Outside temps make a real difference in knock levels. For example, if I see KR at 75F ambient, then tune it out with the PowrTuner, the KR will likely return at 85F. As a result, I have a tune for each SC pulley size at every 5F increment. I don't change the tune that often, but for the track it's nice.

You know when your knock sensors aren't working because your engines goes, "Clank-ity-clank, clank!!" smile

LTFT should lock in at zero at WOT. Even if your tune isn't right on, it should do this consistently. As Dave said, your -3 reading indicates a rich A/F mix. That's not a severe problem, but it probably means the PCM is commanding too much fuel. The downside is, you could more easily go below the the range of 11:1 - 12:1, which is optimum A/F mix for creating power. If it goes down to around 9:1, your engine will not be making as much power as it did at 11:1.

Your timing is supposed to drop at WOT. If it didn't, your engine would knock itself to pieces. 12 advanced is a perfectly good value, especially if you are getting nearly zero KR. If you were never seeing even a hint of KR, advancing the timing a degree or two would be an option. Maybe it is in your case, but if you do, remember you need to throw fuel in, and it appears like you're rich already.

Set fans to turn on at 185F or thereabouts. That's what keeps your engine cool when sitting idle. I've never gotten the "key off" fan operation to work. Must not be in the cards for the Riviera.

A shift point increase of 200 RPM is a big difference at WOT. You'll definitely notice the gear winding out longer. Stock is 5400. 5600 is enough to make someone think they're driving a different car. Not sure if it would give you that much of a power advantage without rockers/cam, but you could try it. I'm shifting at 5800, and it feels almost like the engine will fly apart.

The "abuse control" (aka torque management, TM) is there to prevent damage. There's engine TM and transmission TM settings. Important: know what you're doing before you go messing with this. I remember a guy over at RegalGS.org who was saying how cool it was because he set TM to nearly off, the car would chirp tires on upshifts. Then about 3 months later his tranny died... he blamed it on GM. suspect

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'98 SC Riviera 268k miles 298 HP/370 TQ 0-60: 5.79s ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 4087 lb 20.1 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley AL104 plugs 180 t-stat FWI w/K&N 1.9:1 rockers OR pushrods LS6 valve springs SLP headers ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts MaxAir shocks Addco sway bars UMI bushings GM STB Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus SS lines Brembo slotted discs DHP tuned Aeroforce Hidden Hitch


'05 GTO 49k miles 0-60: 4.8s 16.9 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun
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Mr.Riviera
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PostSubject: Re: 0KR ...now what!?   Fri Sep 28, 2007 1:59 am

ok TM i know. i just never heard it called abuse control.

thanks for the advice so far.
i can manualy turn the fans on by cutting on the a/c in the 96's (or at least mine), so i can control it most of the time by doing that. i just want to have the option of turning the a/c off and still have the fans on if its really hot out, or if i am sitting idle for a long time. maybe i'll set it at 200*

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1996 with 244k miles, L324" FWI -> ported N* -> Ported Gen V w/3.0" Pulley, Stage 3 Phenolic I/C, ZZP FMHE, 1.84 RR, Headers and 3" pipe to mufflers, F-body brakes, and lowered on Eibachs.
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