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 Steering shudder, pump or rack noise?

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PostSubject: Re: Steering shudder, pump or rack noise?   Wed Mar 18, 2009 12:00 am

i don't think anyone has, but if and when you do you must do a writeup, lots of others here that want to do the same thing.
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PostSubject: shaking in steering wheel   Tue Sep 22, 2009 2:22 pm

I have a problem with my 96 riv. ever since i bought the car when i turn the wheel hard whether to make a right or left turn, the steering wheel shakes and vibrates. i checked the ball joints and the tie rods and they appear tight. i also had it in to good year for an alignment and they said the lower control arm bushing was bad. so i replaced the front one on both sides of the car. the rear lower control arm bushing was good and at this time i checked the ball joint and it was tight so i reinstalled it.

even after that i have the steering wheel shaking. it drives fine, no rattles, no roughness etc. i did get the car from a little old lady and its got about 115,000 miles on it. original struts and suspension components. i am trying to track down the problem before i go and do any mods to this car. i am currently thinking maybe its the strut bearings?

any ideas of where to look and how to inspect the parts would be greatly appreciated. i've also though it was a cv joint going but i think i would hear other noises from that as well.
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PostSubject: Re: Steering shudder, pump or rack noise?   Tue Sep 22, 2009 2:27 pm

Does it do it at road speeds or parking lot only? I wont be able to help much, but mine shudders during parking maneuvers. I believe I read somewhere that its a power steering pump hose. Good luck
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PostSubject: Re: Steering shudder, pump or rack noise?   Tue Sep 22, 2009 2:28 pm

There is a factory Technical Service Bulletin that discuses the problem you are having and it involves replacing one of the power steering hoses.
I'd have to do a little research on that and get you the TSB # and find out if it pertains to the 95 and if so which hose and what p/n to replace it with.
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PostSubject: Re: Steering shudder, pump or rack noise?   Tue Sep 22, 2009 2:46 pm

TSB # 99-02-32-007A Titled "Steering Vibration / Shudder / Moan During parking maneuvers on dry pavement

It does pertain to 95-99 Riviera's as well as other models.
It calls to replace the low pressure (inlet) hose on 95-98 models
and both hoses on the 99
There are many things to check before just blindly replacing the hose assembly though. You should get a copy of this TSB and read through it first.
There is a note that specifically calls out the on the 1995 to check the harmonic balancer as it can influence steering vibrations if it is bad.
As well as checking other things and proper bleeding procedures of your power steering system to ensure there is no trapped air in the system.
Somewhere on here is a link to these SB's or you can get a copy by asking the service advisor at your local dealer
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PostSubject: Re: Steering shudder, pump or rack noise?   Tue Sep 22, 2009 2:47 pm

mine does it when turning into a side street or when turning into my driveway, in either the right or left direction. this really seems like something more than a power steering hose. but if you can find the TSB i will follow it and see if it fixes the problem.
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PostSubject: Re: Steering shudder, pump or rack noise?   Tue Sep 22, 2009 3:01 pm

Put the front of the car on some jack stands and try and duplicate the symptoms. Have someone turn the wheel back and forth and try and watch for any trouble signs.

Bert tavis
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PostSubject: Re: Steering shudder, pump or rack noise?   Tue Sep 22, 2009 4:17 pm

You wouldn't also happen to be braking when this happens? Warped old original rotors? Sounds more like the power steering issue though. Mine has this symptom, but it is barely noticeable so I can ignore it easily.
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PostSubject: Re: Steering shudder, pump or rack noise?   Tue Sep 22, 2009 5:01 pm

I agree this sounds like the hose TSB. Try new power steering fluid and hoses.
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PostSubject: Re: Steering shudder, pump or rack noise?   Tue Sep 22, 2009 5:28 pm

Look above your last post for the TSB #
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PostSubject: Re: Steering shudder, pump or rack noise?   Tue Sep 22, 2009 5:53 pm

My 96 had this problem, vibrations when taking turns going 40k/h or so. The dealership replaced both hoses and flushed the system out. The steering felt like new again afterwards.
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PostSubject: Re: Steering shudder, pump or rack noise?   Tue Sep 22, 2009 10:26 pm

Rickw wrote:
There is a factory Technical Service Bulletin that discuses the problem you are having and it involves replacing one of the power steering hoses.
I'd have to do a little research on that and get you the TSB # and find out if it pertains to the 95 and if so which hose and what p/n to replace it with.

I'm pretty sure that info is posted somehwere else on this Editboard - try using the search function, should not be too tough to find.

Albertj
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PostSubject: Re: Steering shudder, pump or rack noise?   Tue Sep 22, 2009 10:29 pm

Rickw wrote:
TSB # 99-02-32-007A Titled "Steering Vibration / Shudder / Moan During parking maneuvers on dry pavement

It does pertain to 95-99 Riviera's as well as other models.
It calls to replace the low pressure (inlet) hose on 95-98 models
and both hoses on the 99
There are many things to check before just blindly replacing the hose assembly though. You should get a copy of this TSB and read through it first.
There is a note that specifically calls out the on the 1995 to check the harmonic balancer as it can influence steering vibrations if it is bad.
As well as checking other things and proper bleeding procedures of your power steering system to ensure there is no trapped air in the system.
Somewhere on here is a link to these SB's or you can get a copy by asking the service advisor at your local dealer
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PostSubject: Re: Steering shudder, pump or rack noise?   Mon Dec 14, 2009 4:38 pm

I just ordered the hose for my 97 from Rockauto. (Pt# 36366500)

It's now cheaper than the $40 mentioned above. It was $28 and change. $33 with UPS Ground shipping.
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PostSubject: Re: Steering shudder, pump or rack noise?   Mon Dec 14, 2009 4:51 pm

Stuart, thanks for the price info. If you could let us know if this hose replacement solves the problem, I'm sure a number of us would appreciate the report. I don't think anyone's actually performed the swap yet.

And if you could snap some pics and/or create a small write-up, that would be fantastic!

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PostSubject: Re: Steering shudder, pump or rack noise?   Mon Dec 14, 2009 6:58 pm

manofmany wrote:
Has anyone actually replaced the hose themselves? I'm thinking about purchasing it and installing it.

I had my brother replace the pressure hose when he had the car in to replace the new water pump that went bad. This is the short hose, and he still said it was a royal PIA... Even worse, it never made a damned bit of difference.

I had already sucked out old fluid a few times with a turkey baster, and replaced it with fresh, but I don't remember if I put additive in. Lucas makes good stuff, though, so maybe I should take out another baster-full and replace it with Lucas...

One other thing
: I checked the fluid a couple months ago with the motor cold, and there was actually a vacuum holding the cap down. I checked again a week ago and it was the same... I'm tempted to spray the pump down with brakekleen and use duct tape to hold the cap in place without turning & locking it, and see if this one-way vent is pulling enough vacuum when the car cools to cause bubbles in the rack.


And Albert, I know you're frustrated, but nobody really knows these things... We don't question how Rislone, TransX or Lucas work, we just praise them if they do! bow
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PostSubject: Re: Steering shudder, pump or rack noise?   Mon Dec 14, 2009 7:01 pm

ibmoses might be onto something. i put a bottle of tranny fix into the tranny and she shifts beautifully and ultra quiet. but the tranny doesnt seem to spool up as fast as without?
weird. but the higher viscosity might be what the "goose juice is"
what it is exactly,only a lucas tech would tell you. but get ready for a earfull of whizbang techno babble to put ya to sleep over a 900 foot clif.................................................... sleep
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PostSubject: Re: Steering shudder, pump or rack noise?   Mon Dec 14, 2009 7:36 pm

I am guessing a combination of higher viscosity and higher lubricity.

Albertj
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PostSubject: Re: Steering shudder, pump or rack noise?   Mon Dec 14, 2009 10:09 pm

right. dont forget friction agents.
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PostSubject: Re: Steering shudder, pump or rack noise?   Mon Jan 04, 2010 3:36 pm

Eldo wrote:

I had my brother replace the pressure hose when he had the car in to replace the new water pump that went bad. This is the short hose, and he still said it was a royal PIA... Even worse, it never made a damned bit of difference.


One other thing
: I checked the fluid a couple months ago with the motor cold, and there was actually a vacuum holding the cap down. I checked again a week ago and it was the same... I'm tempted to spray the pump down with brakekleen and use duct tape to hold the cap in place without turning & locking it, and see if this one-way vent is pulling enough vacuum when the car cools to cause bubbles in the rack.

Well, I actually had a better idea than above - I swapped the air-tight steering pump cap on the Riviera with the vented cap from the Wildcat... sunny

It's not perfect, but after at least 5 driving cycles, the shudder is now the exception instead of the rule. I'd say that 80% of it is gone, and if I do get a shudder it seems like it's quieter and easier to turn though, like there's less air that it needs to get rid of for that trip.

The results are good enough that I'd recommend anyone with the same problem try the original "taped-down-cap" idea, and if you see an improvement go to Napa, etc. and buy a spare power steering cap in which you can drill a strategically placed vent hole... They're usually available in an aisle or on a rotating rack of "HELP!", Dorman, or MotorMite.


Last edited by Eldo on Mon Jan 04, 2010 9:48 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Steering shudder, pump or rack noise?   Mon Jan 04, 2010 6:25 pm

Are you sure the OEM cap isn't supposed to be vented.???
And possibly you just had the wrong cap on there to start with.?
I'm curious, I was able to do a complete flush of my pump and rack, in the process I had the return line disconnected from the pump and directed into a pan to catch the crap fluid coming out of the rack. Put everything back together the way it is supposed to be and didn't experience any air related problems. I know in the process I must have admitted some air even though the procedure I used would absolutely minimize any air, but still would expect a vented cap to handle it.
I did not inspect the cap that closely, other than to clean it. Now you make me want to take the cap off and get a better look, again just out of curiosity. But I'm not so curious to go out right now and look in 20* weather and in the dark.
Maybe another day.
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PostSubject: Re: Steering shudder, pump or rack noise?   Mon Jan 04, 2010 8:37 pm

It definitely does not vent, and it is the correct factory style cap that is as pristine as everything else under the hood. Even if the original owner somehow lost the cap, all of their work was done at the dealer.

I think I read somewhere ( ITIRS wink) that they went to a non-vented system to help prevent aeration of the fluid (yeah, that worked out real well...)
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PostSubject: Re: Steering shudder, pump or rack noise?   Mon Jan 04, 2010 9:00 pm

When I removed the PS cap on our 99 Riv it had the vacum pressure described.

I did not think anything of it at the time. scratch

Bert tavis
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PostSubject: Re: Steering shudder, pump or rack noise?   Mon Jan 04, 2010 9:11 pm

If a vented cap is the answer, aren't they available vented, as in the GM older style, from the auto parts stores in the HELP section.

BTW, After properly flushing the reservoir (about 5 times) and the steering rack and filling with fresh fluid and 1oz of Lucas additive, all my steering pump noise went away. Only added a measured 1 oz. and it took a while, maybe a couple hundred miles of driving, but it worked.
I was almost ready to replace pump and rack assy.
Not anymore.
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PostSubject: Re: Steering shudder, pump or rack noise?   Mon Jan 04, 2010 9:50 pm

Rickw wrote:
If a vented cap is the answer, aren't they available vented, as in the GM older style, from the auto parts stores in the HELP section.

BTW, After properly flushing the reservoir (about 5 times) and the steering rack and filling with fresh fluid and 1oz of Lucas additive, all my steering pump noise went away. Only added a measured 1 oz. and it took a while, maybe a couple hundred miles of driving, but it worked.

You're right Rick, I meant to add that when I wrote "and if you see an improvement go to Napa, etc. and buy a spare power steering cap in which you can drill a strategically placed vent hole..." I went back and added HELP!/Dorman/MotorMite to my prior post (they're all the same company now.)


PS - Thanks for the confirmation, Bert!
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