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 Steering shudder, pump or rack noise?

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Rickw
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PostSubject: Re: Steering shudder, pump or rack noise?   Mon Jan 04, 2010 6:25 pm

Are you sure the OEM cap isn't supposed to be vented.???
And possibly you just had the wrong cap on there to start with.?
I'm curious, I was able to do a complete flush of my pump and rack, in the process I had the return line disconnected from the pump and directed into a pan to catch the crap fluid coming out of the rack. Put everything back together the way it is supposed to be and didn't experience any air related problems. I know in the process I must have admitted some air even though the procedure I used would absolutely minimize any air, but still would expect a vented cap to handle it.
I did not inspect the cap that closely, other than to clean it. Now you make me want to take the cap off and get a better look, again just out of curiosity. But I'm not so curious to go out right now and look in 20* weather and in the dark.
Maybe another day.
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PostSubject: Re: Steering shudder, pump or rack noise?   Mon Jan 04, 2010 8:37 pm

It definitely does not vent, and it is the correct factory style cap that is as pristine as everything else under the hood. Even if the original owner somehow lost the cap, all of their work was done at the dealer.

I think I read somewhere ( ITIRS wink) that they went to a non-vented system to help prevent aeration of the fluid (yeah, that worked out real well...)
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ibmoses
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PostSubject: Re: Steering shudder, pump or rack noise?   Mon Jan 04, 2010 9:00 pm

When I removed the PS cap on our 99 Riv it had the vacum pressure described.

I did not think anything of it at the time. scratch

Bert tavis
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Rickw
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PostSubject: Re: Steering shudder, pump or rack noise?   Mon Jan 04, 2010 9:11 pm

If a vented cap is the answer, aren't they available vented, as in the GM older style, from the auto parts stores in the HELP section.

BTW, After properly flushing the reservoir (about 5 times) and the steering rack and filling with fresh fluid and 1oz of Lucas additive, all my steering pump noise went away. Only added a measured 1 oz. and it took a while, maybe a couple hundred miles of driving, but it worked.
I was almost ready to replace pump and rack assy.
Not anymore.
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Eldo
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PostSubject: Re: Steering shudder, pump or rack noise?   Mon Jan 04, 2010 9:50 pm

Rickw wrote:
If a vented cap is the answer, aren't they available vented, as in the GM older style, from the auto parts stores in the HELP section.

BTW, After properly flushing the reservoir (about 5 times) and the steering rack and filling with fresh fluid and 1oz of Lucas additive, all my steering pump noise went away. Only added a measured 1 oz. and it took a while, maybe a couple hundred miles of driving, but it worked.

You're right Rick, I meant to add that when I wrote "and if you see an improvement go to Napa, etc. and buy a spare power steering cap in which you can drill a strategically placed vent hole..." I went back and added HELP!/Dorman/MotorMite to my prior post (they're all the same company now.)


PS - Thanks for the confirmation, Bert!
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VJD2
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PostSubject: Re: Steering shudder, pump or rack noise?   Fri Apr 02, 2010 12:58 am

duckstu wrote:
I just ordered the hose for my 97 from Rockauto. (Pt# 36366500)

It's now cheaper than the $40 mentioned above. It was $28 and change. $33 with UPS Ground shipping.

I don't think this is the revised hose. If you notice they have the AC Delco hose there which is the old part number, not the revised TSB part number. Also if you punch in the revised part number and the old part number into GM Parts Direct there is a major difference in price for the old one and the revised one.

I think the Rock Auto deal is too good to be true @ only $28 for the revised hose.

Doing the research now because I'm hoping to replace my hose soon to get rid of the damn shuddering when turning.
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Rickw
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PostSubject: Re: Steering shudder, pump or rack noise?   Fri Apr 02, 2010 1:17 am

Try plugging the revised (newest) P/N into www.monsterpartsonline.com
Have found them to have the best prices on OEM GM parts.
I don't remember the new P/n right now or else I'd plug it in for you.
If you have any problem with the P/N not showing as a valid number with monsterparts, use there contact (email) feature and direct a inquiry to Patrick, he handles ALL on-line orders and will answer your email and solve most if not all your problems.
At least he has for me. He's a very good guy.
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Rickw
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PostSubject: Re: Steering shudder, pump or rack noise?   Fri Apr 02, 2010 1:20 am

FROM PAGE ONE of this post: HTH

The bulletin I have is dated, Jan 31, 2001:
I only listed the Riviera
since that is all the info we need, RIGHT! wink

Condition
Some customers may comment on a steering vibration, shudder or moan noise when steering during parking maneuvers on dry pavement.

Correction
Install a new power steering pressure (inlet) hose assembly on the following vehicles:
- 1995 98 Buick Riviera
- P/N 26059162
Pressure/Inlet Hyd Hose Assembly (with Magna Steer)



This is what I came up with on monster parts:
Item Number MSRP Core Price Price
26059162 $130.03 $0.00 $85.24

HOSE

I would still contact Patric and see what he may be able to do for you.
Good Luck
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Eldo
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PostSubject: Re: Steering shudder, pump or rack noise?   Fri Apr 02, 2010 3:16 am

Just a reminder that of the 3 things I did, the 6 ounces of Lucas made the most improvement, the vented cap made the second most improvement, and the stinking PITA hose made the least!

Unfortunately, I trusted the TSB and did these things in the exact reverse order... headbutt
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VJD2
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PostSubject: Re: Steering shudder, pump or rack noise?   Fri Apr 02, 2010 11:17 am

Rickw wrote:
FROM PAGE ONE of this post: HTH

The bulletin I have is dated, Jan 31, 2001:
I only listed the Riviera
since that is all the info we need, RIGHT! wink

Condition
Some customers may comment on a steering vibration, shudder or moan noise when steering during parking maneuvers on dry pavement.

Correction
Install a new power steering pressure (inlet) hose assembly on the following vehicles:
- 1995 98 Buick Riviera
- P/N 26059162
Pressure/Inlet Hyd Hose Assembly (with Magna Steer)



This is what I came up with on monster parts:
Item Number MSRP Core Price Price
26059162 $130.03 $0.00 $85.24

HOSE

I would still contact Patric and see what he may be able to do for you.
Good Luck

Damn I didn't see that info in the first post! DOH! Well thanks for the info.

I put the part number into GM Parts Direct and it came up with the best prices. $77.08. I'll still call Patrick and see if he can meet or beat the price.

Eldo wrote:
Just a reminder that of the 3 things I did, the 6 ounces of Lucas made the most improvement, the vented cap made the second most improvement, and the stinking PITA hose made the least!

Unfortunately, I trusted the TSB and did these things in the exact reverse order... headbutt

Really? Hmm, maybe I will try that first. I know I read about the vented cap but for time sake do you have a part number or anything so I can pick one up quick? Thanks!
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Abaddon
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PostSubject: Re: Steering shudder, pump or rack noise?   Fri Apr 02, 2010 1:25 pm

The shudder doesn't bother me really, I'm used to it. It's not hurting anything so I just deal with it.....
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albertj
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PostSubject: Re: Steering shudder, pump or rack noise?   Fri Apr 02, 2010 1:52 pm

Abaddon wrote:
The shudder doesn't bother me really, I'm used to it. It's not hurting anything so I just deal with it.....

6 oz or so of Lucas is as likely as anything else to get rid of that shudder (read my posts early in this thread - thread started off me asking *why* that goose juice worked at all).

Albertj
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Eldo
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PostSubject: Re: Steering shudder, pump or rack noise?   Fri Apr 02, 2010 2:40 pm

VJD2 wrote:
Eldo wrote:
Just a reminder that of the 3 things I did, the 6 ounces of Lucas made the most improvement, the vented cap made the second most improvement, and the stinking PITA hose made the least!

Unfortunately, I trusted the TSB and did these things in the exact reverse order... headbutt

Really? Hmm, maybe I will try that first. I know I read about the vented cap but for time sake do you have a part number or anything so I can pick one up quick? Thanks!

Afraid not... As I said above, I just used an old style cap off of my Wildcat, which doesn't have the proper length dip-stick for the Rivi. I would take the Rivi cap into a parts store and compare it the the Dorman/HELP! products to find a cheap replacement and then drill my own vent hole in it.

Frankly I've never gotten around to it since I have to move out of state this season, but even with the 'proper' cap back on the car, I only get one lesser groan (with less resistance thru the wheel) every few trips now... Whereas I would originally get at least one occurrence every driving cycle, after the Lucas treatment it's now infrequent enough, and weak enough, that it doesn't really register with me. It also parks easier, with no 'loaded' sound or feeling.

For those healthy enough that they don't dread putting the car up on stands, I'd recommend starting out by going under and pulling the return hose off the pump, sticking it into an empty container of some sort, and having someone slowly crank the wheel with the engine running while I carefully poured/siphoned fresh fluid into it. Then I'd put everything back together, add 4 to 6 ounces of Lucas to the reservoir, top it off with fluid and probably be done with it... for a whole lot less money and work than replacing the hose(s).
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VJD2
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PostSubject: Re: Steering shudder, pump or rack noise?   Sun Apr 04, 2010 12:21 pm

Hmm, alright. I'll try the easy way out first.

I'm just one of those people who can't stand things like that on my car. I have to fix it!

Thanks again.
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Rickw
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PostSubject: Re: Steering shudder, pump or rack noise?   Sun Apr 04, 2010 12:40 pm

Eldo wrote:

For those healthy enough that they don't dread putting the car up on stands, I'd recommend starting out by going under and pulling the return hose off the pump, sticking it into an empty container of some sort, and having someone slowly crank the wheel with the engine running while I carefully poured/siphoned fresh fluid into it. Then I'd put everything back together, add 4 to 6 ounces of Lucas to the reservoir, top it off with fluid and probably be done with it... for a whole lot less money and work than replacing the hose(s).
This flush, described above, flushes the pump and steering rack and worked for me.
I put whatever the reservoir holds in fluid oz. of Lucas in and after driving the car for about a week the noise slowly went away.
Did not go away immediately, but give it a little time and keep checking the reservoir daily and top off with lucas as need. I don't think I used more than 4-5 oz. of Lucas.
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skymilerjc
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PostSubject: Re: Steering shudder, pump or rack noise?   Thu Jul 29, 2010 12:48 am

I had this issue as well, and had the hoses changed per the TSB, and the problem went away. However while driving and turning to the right, I have a grinding sound. The bearings and CV joints have been checked and are all good. No popping noise just a grinding sound and it gets worse if accelerating while turning to the right.
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Eldo
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PostSubject: Re: Steering shudder, pump or rack noise?   Thu Jul 29, 2010 12:52 am

skymilerjc wrote:
...just a grinding sound and it gets worse if accelerating while turning to the right.

Sorry, but my vote is either outer CV joint(s) or hub(s)...
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skymilerjc
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PostSubject: Re: Steering shudder, pump or rack noise?   Thu Jul 29, 2010 12:57 am

Thanks for the advice, I will double check both.....
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Rickw
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PostSubject: Re: Steering shudder, pump or rack noise?   Thu Jul 29, 2010 1:15 am

While loading the right Hub Bearing and a grinding noise, hmmmmm.
That would be where I would be setting up a dial indicator to check for play if you can't feel it by hand.
Just remember to jack with a floor jack under the control arm when checking the bearing. First just try rotating the tire and wheel and feeling for roughness or listening for any noise, then pull on wheel / tire assy from 3 and 9 o:clock back and forth and then 12 and 6 o:clock positions. If no play is felt, then you will have to remove wheel and check hub with a dial indicator.
I think the manual says anything more than .008" and it's bad. Might even be less, they don't give much tolerance on them.
May want to double check the number.
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PostSubject: Re: Steering shudder, pump or rack noise?   Thu Jul 29, 2010 1:23 am

Rickw wrote:

Just remember to jack with a floor jack under the control arm when checking the bearing. First just try rotating the tire and wheel and feeling for roughness or listening for any noise, then pull on wheel / tire assy from 3 and 9 o:clock back and forth and then 12 and 6 o:clock positions....

Definitely do that first part. When I had a "sealed hub-bearing combo" go bad on my last car, I was able to feel the play in the 12-to-6-oclock position...
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DEMonte1997
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PostSubject: Re: Steering shudder, pump or rack noise?   Thu Jul 29, 2010 2:13 am

Good info. One of a few issues I'm experiencing with the Riv now.
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AA
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PostSubject: Re: Steering shudder, pump or rack noise?   Thu Jul 29, 2010 10:20 am

Wow, .008" that's some seriously tight hub tolerance. Does it say how far out from center this allowance is specified?

_________________
'98 SC Riviera 268k miles 298 HP/370 TQ 0-60: 5.79s ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 4087 lb 20.1 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
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PostSubject: Re: Steering shudder, pump or rack noise?   Wed Oct 12, 2011 5:28 pm

ibmoses wrote:
albertj wrote:
Update - okay, this isn't very funny, but I thought I should confess.

A while after I posted, I had the dealer flush the PS and fill with synthetic. Which made it quieter. Then just before Christmas I put in some Lucas 'power steering stop-leak, I guess 6 ounces or so, replacing some of the fluid. Largely because the stop leak was sitting around and the label said it quieted noisy systems... Stop leak was here because my son got an old Chrysler that had been sitting a while and he figured the Lucas fluid would puff up the seals (I told him don't bet on it just replace the pump and he said not so fast, I don't want to blow out the rack seals with the new pump so until I can do both this will have to do... he got the Chrysler another owner last week....)

Anyway - the Lucas fluid (at the time) did nothing. So I looked at my calendar to figure out when I could put in the TSB replacement PS hose. And realized there was no way I was gonna get to that until this summer at the earliest. Add to that that I took Randall's comment ("I couldn't see spending the money because it is very minor and only when stopped") seriously... and so I told myself 'fuggedaboudit.'

Well... the noise went away. And I had forgotten about it until seeing manofmany's post.

My guess it that the PS flush removed some crud and put in a more stable (synthetic) fluid; the Lucas is a very different viscosity than any PS fluid (it is about the consistency of dark amber honey at low room temperature). I suppose it took quite some time for it to mix completely with the new (very light) fluid.

So I confess to putting some 'goose juice' in my PS rack. But I am loath to post this as a fix: have your rack and pinion system flushed and refilled with synthetic fluid and then replace the synth you can suck with a turkey baster out of the pump reservoir with Lucas PS-repair-in-a-bottle and wait 6 months... Naaaaah I just don't wanna put my name on that.

Howeer if any of you have an explanation as to why this might have worked and if it might be repeatable, please post and let us know.

Albertj

I am planning on using a suction gun to remove the fluid from the resevoir(99Riv) and refill...then wait a few weeks and repeat this, maybe a few times to get as much new fluid in the system as possible without flushing it.

Just wanted some opinions on using the synthetic fluid-since I wont be removing all the fluid with the suction gun it will be a mixture of conventional and synthetic fluid. I am also considering some Lucas or other treatment in a small quantity.

Thanks for tips or opinions.

Bert
I realize this is an old thread, but why not just pull the hose from the bottom of the reservoir and drain it that way?
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AA
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PostSubject: Re: Steering shudder, pump or rack noise?   Wed Oct 12, 2011 5:44 pm

I used the suction gun, too. Took all of 10 mins. I think it's easier (for me) than getting under there and pulling the hose.

_________________
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PostSubject: Re: Steering shudder, pump or rack noise?   Sat Mar 03, 2012 7:23 pm

I know this is an old thread but I have the same problem with my 97. Before I caught this thread I had already added the Lucas treatment.

I bought a siphon from Autozone for $2 and took enough out to refill with a full bottle of the Lucas. The old fluid was not clear and looked perhaps contaminated, or just really dark in nature.

The Lucas has reduced the severity and frequency of the flutter. After reading this thread I will probably go ahead and change the hose as the TSB advised.

We'll try to photo journal the process.
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