HomeDashboardFAQSearchRiviera Questions & AnswersWrite-Ups IndexRegisterRelated LinksMemberlistLog in
Share | 
 

 Write-Up: Stage I Voltage Booster

View previous topic View next topic Go down 
Go to page : Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
AuthorMessage
Rickw
Guru


Name : Rick
Age : 59
Location : Lancaster, MA
Joined : 2008-09-13
Post Count : 6081
Merit : 105

PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Stage I Voltage Booster   Wed Aug 12, 2009 7:20 pm

http://store.alternatorparts.com/quicktifier-210remoteheavydutybridgerectifiersystem.aspx

Check this out for an external Diode Bridge Rectifier rated at 210 amps for AC Delco Alternators.
This company also supplies all parts needed to rebuild our alternators.
Ours is a CS-144 Late model
Back to top Go down
AA
Administrator
avatar

Name : Aaron
Age : 40
Location : C-bus, Ohio
Joined : 2007-01-13
Post Count : 18310
Merit : 239

PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Stage I Voltage Booster   Wed Aug 12, 2009 10:07 pm

Hmm... $109. That's a lot more than 25!

_________________
'98 SC Riviera 268k miles 298 HP/370 TQ 0-60: 5.79s ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 4087 lb 20.1 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley AL104 plugs 180 t-stat FWI w/K&N 1.9:1 rockers OR pushrods LS6 valve springs SLP headers ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts MaxAir shocks Addco sway bars UMI bushings GM STB Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus SS lines Brembo slotted discs DHP tuned Aeroforce Hidden Hitch


'05 GTO 49k miles 0-60: 4.8s 16.9 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun
Back to top Go down
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/657082/4
Rickw
Guru


Name : Rick
Age : 59
Location : Lancaster, MA
Joined : 2008-09-13
Post Count : 6081
Merit : 105

PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Stage I Voltage Booster   Wed Aug 12, 2009 10:40 pm

AA wrote:
Hmm... $109. That's a lot more than 25!
Well it does much more than boost voltage by .6 volts.
They have other rectifier bridges designed to be added/bolted to the alternator externally to extend the life of the alternator while allowing you to get 200 amps or more from it.
But in our application it won't fit because of the SC. So the other solution is the remote rectifier. It is for someone who wants to boost output of the alternator by a considerable amount yet provide a long service life by not taxing a normal 3 diode internal bridge.
I just found it interesting as I had never seen one before. I'm sure the guys running gobs of amplifiers and running a higher output alternator without RFI are using these.


Last edited by Rickw on Fri Aug 14, 2009 5:34 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top Go down
AA
Administrator
avatar

Name : Aaron
Age : 40
Location : C-bus, Ohio
Joined : 2007-01-13
Post Count : 18310
Merit : 239

PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Stage I Voltage Booster   Wed Aug 12, 2009 11:38 pm

Interesting, but I find it hard to believe this device can extract more than 200 amps from my 140 amp alternator - and extend it's life at the same time? How does it do all of that?

If I want to get 1.2V boost, I spend 50 on two diodes. I can keep going, but really there isn't much point of going beyond 15-16 volts. For extra amperes, I'd think you would need to upgrade the alternator.

_________________
'98 SC Riviera 268k miles 298 HP/370 TQ 0-60: 5.79s ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 4087 lb 20.1 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley AL104 plugs 180 t-stat FWI w/K&N 1.9:1 rockers OR pushrods LS6 valve springs SLP headers ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts MaxAir shocks Addco sway bars UMI bushings GM STB Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus SS lines Brembo slotted discs DHP tuned Aeroforce Hidden Hitch


'05 GTO 49k miles 0-60: 4.8s 16.9 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun
Back to top Go down
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/657082/4
Ryan from Ohio
Fanatic


Name : Ryan
Location : Toledo, Ohio
Joined : 2008-11-16
Post Count : 307
Merit : 7

PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Stage I Voltage Booster   Fri Aug 14, 2009 5:17 pm

AA wrote:
Interesting, but I find it hard to believe this device can extract more than 200 amps from my 140 amp alternator - and extend it's life at the same time? How does it do all of that?

If I want to get 1.2V boost, I spend 50 on two diodes. I can keep going, but really there isn't much point of going beyond 15-16 volts. For extra amperes, I'd think you would need to upgrade the alternator.

That is because it CANT.

Who said it could?

Its 210 amp RATED. Doesnt mean it will produce Amperage- it cant. Its just an external rectifier. TBH its a very good price on one also, but its to small at only 210 Amps. Weve used an external one upto 250 Amps.

The alternator will set the maximum amperage due to the windings.

All this rectifier does is convert the AC to DC. Plus it probably allows you to adjust the voltage.

"When your alternator is turned on and making electricity it takes power from the engine to generate the electrical power in the alternator, the more electrical power an alternator makes the more it costs. "

Sure it takes power to turn the alternator- it creates DRAG. The alternator is free turning stator in amd the armature is a non moving outer core... Theres nothing to create more drag when more power is necessary. It may make the motor idle faster to bring the amperage up more...

The absolute bottom line is if you are into car audio and you need a bigger alternator, GET ONE! These magic boxes and such are simple gimmicks and wastes...

Sometimes when your amperage gets up there you can use an external rectifier... But its not a cure for your alternators shortcomings.
Back to top Go down
Rickw
Guru


Name : Rick
Age : 59
Location : Lancaster, MA
Joined : 2008-09-13
Post Count : 6081
Merit : 105

PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Stage I Voltage Booster   Fri Aug 14, 2009 5:32 pm

I never said it would boost the alternator's output. If it sounded that way I apologize.
I know the stock internal rectifier is the component that fails the most on these alternators due to heat, the diodes fail. With that said if you plan on having your alternator re-wired for more output or buy an alternator rated for higher output then an external rectifier is a good thing to have. The higher the output of the alternator the more heat that is generated by the rectifier. The external rectifier removes most of the heat that is generated inside the alternator by performing the function of rectifying AC to DC externally with fans mounted in the case and increases the number of diodes in the circuit to provide cleaner current, less RFI, etc.
I am considering a higher output alternator with external rectifier for when I add amplifiers.
Back to top Go down
97 park ave
Addict
avatar

Name : Tyler
Age : 26
Location : MN
Joined : 2009-03-06
Post Count : 669
Merit : 21

PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Stage I Voltage Booster   Fri Feb 12, 2010 11:23 am

okay in aarons first pic on page 1 of the diode it says 1n4004, i didnt double check here before going to radio shack yesterday and ended up getting 1n4005, can i still use this or do i need that exact 1n4004?

EDIT:
the only difference i can find between them is the 1n4005's peak inverse voltage is 600V with a forward voltage drop of 1.6V,
while the 1n4004's peak inverse voltage is 400V with a voltage drop of 0.8V
i dont know too much about these diodes anyone know if im still good?
Back to top Go down
Mr.Riviera
Expert
avatar

Name : Matthew
Age : 31
Location : Florida
Joined : 2007-01-17
Post Count : 4351
Merit : 99

PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Stage I Voltage Booster   Fri Feb 12, 2010 12:10 pm

the diodes cost a few cents, and if you didnt open it i'm sure they would exchange them for you. I personally would not experiment with other resistors unless it was the only option.

_________________
1996 with 244k miles, L324" FWI -> ported N* -> Ported Gen V w/3.0" Pulley, Stage 3 Phenolic I/C, ZZP FMHE, 1.84 RR, Headers and 3" pipe to mufflers, F-body brakes, and lowered on Eibachs.
Back to top Go down
97 park ave
Addict
avatar

Name : Tyler
Age : 26
Location : MN
Joined : 2009-03-06
Post Count : 669
Merit : 21

PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Stage I Voltage Booster   Fri Feb 12, 2010 12:35 pm

Mr.Riviera wrote:
the diodes cost a few cents, and if you didnt open it i'm sure they would exchange them for you. I personally would not experiment with other resistors unless it was the only option.
the cost doesnt bother me, its going back to the packed mall when i might be able to work with what i have (i hate the mall). but thats kind of what i was thinking i guess ill have to go back lol, even though that was the other bag i had in my hand what are the chances rolleyes
Back to top Go down
Mr.Riviera
Expert
avatar

Name : Matthew
Age : 31
Location : Florida
Joined : 2007-01-17
Post Count : 4351
Merit : 99

PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Stage I Voltage Booster   Fri Feb 12, 2010 12:57 pm

murphy's law

_________________
1996 with 244k miles, L324" FWI -> ported N* -> Ported Gen V w/3.0" Pulley, Stage 3 Phenolic I/C, ZZP FMHE, 1.84 RR, Headers and 3" pipe to mufflers, F-body brakes, and lowered on Eibachs.
Back to top Go down
AA
Administrator
avatar

Name : Aaron
Age : 40
Location : C-bus, Ohio
Joined : 2007-01-13
Post Count : 18310
Merit : 239

PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Stage I Voltage Booster   Fri Feb 12, 2010 1:09 pm

1n4005 will work fine. The number represents the max voltage spec, but both 1n4005 and 1n4004 are will be working well under the max spec at 12V. The critical aspect is the .6V drop in voltage - both diodes will do this.

_________________
'98 SC Riviera 268k miles 298 HP/370 TQ 0-60: 5.79s ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 4087 lb 20.1 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley AL104 plugs 180 t-stat FWI w/K&N 1.9:1 rockers OR pushrods LS6 valve springs SLP headers ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts MaxAir shocks Addco sway bars UMI bushings GM STB Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus SS lines Brembo slotted discs DHP tuned Aeroforce Hidden Hitch


'05 GTO 49k miles 0-60: 4.8s 16.9 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun
Back to top Go down
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/657082/4
97 park ave
Addict
avatar

Name : Tyler
Age : 26
Location : MN
Joined : 2009-03-06
Post Count : 669
Merit : 21

PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Stage I Voltage Booster   Fri Feb 12, 2010 2:19 pm

AA wrote:
1n4005 will work fine. The number represents the max voltage spec, but both 1n4005 and 1n4004 are will be working well under the max spec at 12V. The critical aspect is the .6V drop in voltage - both diodes will do this.
thank you! thumbsup
thats the answer i was lookin for just before i left. as ive said i really dont understand these diodes yet but does the drop in voltage have anything to do with the forward voltage drop spec on the bags?
Back to top Go down
Rickw
Guru


Name : Rick
Age : 59
Location : Lancaster, MA
Joined : 2008-09-13
Post Count : 6081
Merit : 105

PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Stage I Voltage Booster   Fri Feb 12, 2010 2:26 pm

How does a diode alter resistance. I thought the intent was to use a resistor to fake out the battery's thermistor circuit, thus supplying .6 extra volts from the alternator.
Doesn't a diode just prevent opposite current flow.?
Back to top Go down
97 park ave
Addict
avatar

Name : Tyler
Age : 26
Location : MN
Joined : 2009-03-06
Post Count : 669
Merit : 21

PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Stage I Voltage Booster   Fri Feb 12, 2010 2:27 pm

hopefully these diagrams are of the right area, it has the alternator. which wire am i looking for to splice in this diode?

Back to top Go down
97 park ave
Addict
avatar

Name : Tyler
Age : 26
Location : MN
Joined : 2009-03-06
Post Count : 669
Merit : 21

PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Stage I Voltage Booster   Fri Feb 12, 2010 2:30 pm

Rickw wrote:
How does a diode alter resistance. I thought the intent was to use a resistor to fake out the battery's thermistor circuit, thus supplying .6 extra volts from the alternator.
Doesn't a diode just prevent opposite current flow.?
from what i understand it acts the opposite of a resistor, even further than leveling it out, into the increasing flow range. (i could be WAY wrong but it seems to me that it ups the voltage itself before it even gets to the alternator)
Back to top Go down
Rickw
Guru


Name : Rick
Age : 59
Location : Lancaster, MA
Joined : 2008-09-13
Post Count : 6081
Merit : 105

PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Stage I Voltage Booster   Fri Feb 12, 2010 2:31 pm

AA wrote:
1n4005 will work fine. The number represents the max voltage spec, but both 1n4005 and 1n4004 are will be working well under the max spec at 12V. The critical aspect is the .6V drop in voltage - both diodes will do this.
What number represents the max voltage spec.????
Oh, the 600v and 400v, I get that.

Quote: the only difference i can find between them is the 1n4005's peak inverse
voltage is 600V with a forward voltage drop of 1.6V,
while the
1n4004's peak inverse voltage is 400V with a voltage drop of 0.8V End Quote.

But the forward voltage drop is considerably different between the 2.? now I'm still confused.

Does the 97 Park Ave even have a battery thermistor. Or can he use the wiring adapter available for the Gp's on ZZP's site.


Last edited by Rickw on Fri Feb 12, 2010 2:37 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top Go down
97 park ave
Addict
avatar

Name : Tyler
Age : 26
Location : MN
Joined : 2009-03-06
Post Count : 669
Merit : 21

PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Stage I Voltage Booster   Fri Feb 12, 2010 2:36 pm

Rickw wrote:
AA wrote:
1n4005 will work fine. The number represents the max voltage spec, but both 1n4005 and 1n4004 are will be working well under the max spec at 12V. The critical aspect is the .6V drop in voltage - both diodes will do this.
But the forward voltage drop is considerably different between the 2.? now I'm still confused.
thats what i was wondering in my post, does the forward voltage drop spec printed on the bag have anything to do with the voltage drop aaron is talking about. because as said the 2 are different:
1n4005 forward voltage drop- 1.6V
1n4004 forward voltage drop- 0.8V

still confused but as long as youre sure the 4005 will work all i need to know is which wire.
Back to top Go down
Rickw
Guru


Name : Rick
Age : 59
Location : Lancaster, MA
Joined : 2008-09-13
Post Count : 6081
Merit : 105

PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Stage I Voltage Booster   Fri Feb 12, 2010 2:39 pm

Does the 97 Park Ave even have a battery thermistor. Or can he use the wiring adapter available for the GP's on ZZP's site.
And if so, how are they wired differently.
I think that is spelled out as a free Mod on ZZP's site.
Back to top Go down
AA
Administrator
avatar

Name : Aaron
Age : 40
Location : C-bus, Ohio
Joined : 2007-01-13
Post Count : 18310
Merit : 239

PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Stage I Voltage Booster   Fri Feb 12, 2010 2:41 pm

Quote :
How does a diode alter resistance. I thought the intent was to use a resistor to fake out the battery's thermistor circuit, thus supplying .6 extra volts from the alternator.
Doesn't a diode just prevent opposite current flow.?
The way a diode "fakes out" the circuit is by subtracting .6V from it. We could use a resistor to do the same thing, but a diode is more precise, subtracting .6-.8V from the circuit, no matter what the load, voltage, or current. The fact that a diode blocks reverse current is irrelevant in this application.

Quote :
1n4005 forward voltage drop- 1.6V
1n4004 forward voltage drop- 0.8V
If that's true, go with the 1n4004. The 1n4005 will work, but you will get a higher boost (15.7V), so depending on how much voltage gain you want, both will work. I'd go with the 1n4004, as 15.7 may shorten the life of some components in the car.

_________________
'98 SC Riviera 268k miles 298 HP/370 TQ 0-60: 5.79s ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 4087 lb 20.1 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley AL104 plugs 180 t-stat FWI w/K&N 1.9:1 rockers OR pushrods LS6 valve springs SLP headers ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts MaxAir shocks Addco sway bars UMI bushings GM STB Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus SS lines Brembo slotted discs DHP tuned Aeroforce Hidden Hitch


'05 GTO 49k miles 0-60: 4.8s 16.9 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun
Back to top Go down
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/657082/4
Rickw
Guru


Name : Rick
Age : 59
Location : Lancaster, MA
Joined : 2008-09-13
Post Count : 6081
Merit : 105

PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Stage I Voltage Booster   Fri Feb 12, 2010 3:08 pm

What is your average system voltage while using the 1n4004.???
Back to top Go down
AA
Administrator
avatar

Name : Aaron
Age : 40
Location : C-bus, Ohio
Joined : 2007-01-13
Post Count : 18310
Merit : 239

PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Stage I Voltage Booster   Fri Feb 12, 2010 3:12 pm

14.5V, originally 13.9V before the diode.

_________________
'98 SC Riviera 268k miles 298 HP/370 TQ 0-60: 5.79s ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 4087 lb 20.1 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley AL104 plugs 180 t-stat FWI w/K&N 1.9:1 rockers OR pushrods LS6 valve springs SLP headers ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts MaxAir shocks Addco sway bars UMI bushings GM STB Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus SS lines Brembo slotted discs DHP tuned Aeroforce Hidden Hitch


'05 GTO 49k miles 0-60: 4.8s 16.9 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun
Back to top Go down
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/657082/4
Rickw
Guru


Name : Rick
Age : 59
Location : Lancaster, MA
Joined : 2008-09-13
Post Count : 6081
Merit : 105

PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Stage I Voltage Booster   Fri Feb 12, 2010 3:15 pm

97 park ave wrote:
hopefully these diagrams are of the right area, it has the alternator. which wire am i looking for to splice in this diode?

I would have to say it is your Gray wire. That is the generator field wire. Altering the voltage there is the only way to alter voltage at the output.
Your car has slightly different wiring than the Riv, I believe. You can always check the wiring diagram of the Riviera and compare the two.

Correction: The Gray wire does not correspond to the Lt Blue wire of the Riviera or the Orange wire spelled out in the ZZP upgrade. So unless your having a specific problem with Alternator output that can't be fixed by normal maintenance to the alternator (i.e. regulator, brushes, etc.) or corroded wiring, or some other part of the system with high resistance you will need to figure out how to hook up the "Not Used" part of the alternator.


Last edited by Rickw on Fri Feb 12, 2010 6:33 pm; edited 3 times in total
Back to top Go down
Rickw
Guru


Name : Rick
Age : 59
Location : Lancaster, MA
Joined : 2008-09-13
Post Count : 6081
Merit : 105

PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Stage I Voltage Booster   Fri Feb 12, 2010 3:21 pm

AA wrote:
14.5V, originally 13.9V before the diode.
I am averaging 14.5volts after increasing the diameter of the wire from the Alternator to the Underhood connector by adding a length of #4 AWG wire. I was going to add the diode but i think I'll hold off for now.
Back to top Go down
97 park ave
Addict
avatar

Name : Tyler
Age : 26
Location : MN
Joined : 2009-03-06
Post Count : 669
Merit : 21

PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Stage I Voltage Booster   Fri Feb 12, 2010 4:16 pm

Rickw wrote:
97 park ave wrote:
hopefully these diagrams are of the right area, it has the alternator. which wire am i looking for to splice in this diode?

I would have to say it is your Gray wire. That is the generator field wire. Altering the voltage there is the only way to alter voltage at the output.
thanks rick, and thanks aaron for the previous post, looks like im going to have to get the 1n4004 after all lol
this probably wont get done today now ill have to run later tonight but this weekend or monday when i do it i will post the differences from before and after for people who are on the fence about this. keep in mind no matter what some 4awg wire is in store for the alternator soon anyway.
Back to top Go down
Rickw
Guru


Name : Rick
Age : 59
Location : Lancaster, MA
Joined : 2008-09-13
Post Count : 6081
Merit : 105

PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Stage I Voltage Booster   Fri Feb 12, 2010 4:20 pm

97 park ave wrote:
Rickw wrote:
97 park ave wrote:
hopefully these diagrams are of the right area, it has the alternator. which wire am i looking for to splice in this diode?

I would have to say it is your Gray wire. That is the generator field wire. Altering the voltage there is the only way to alter voltage at the output.
thanks rick, and thanks aaron for the previous post, looks like im going to have to get the 1n4004 after all lol
this probably wont get done today now ill have to run later tonight but this weekend or monday when i do it i will post the differences from before and after for people who are on the fence about this. keep in mind no matter what some 4awg wire is in store for the alternator soon anyway.
Don't forget to look at the wiring diagram on the Riviera, look at say 98, to get a comparison. I think there might be differences between the PA and the Riv. as far as wiring goes.
Back to top Go down
 
Write-Up: Stage I Voltage Booster
View previous topic View next topic Back to top 
Page 2 of 4Go to page : Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
 Similar topics
-
» Write-Up: Stage I Voltage Booster
» B&Z booster buzz
» sd 2100 sd2200 voltage
» battery failures
» Rewound stator voltage output??

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
Riviera Performance ::   General Tech :: Audio & Electronics-
Jump to: