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 Plog!! (power log thread)

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T Riley
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PostSubject: Re: Plog!! (power log thread)   Mon May 19, 2008 9:40 am

AA wrote:
Just bend the heat shield out of the way, using pliers. Worked for my header install. If you had to, you could mark and snip away part of it.

good idea with cutting it!!!!!!!! cool when i do my XS header install thats what im gonna do
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1998 Riv
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PostSubject: Re: Plog!! (power log thread)   Mon May 19, 2008 11:22 am

Mr.Riviera wrote:
sorry to keep prodding you for results Dave poke, but i'm still not convinced a plog is worth the money. Do you feel a difference in power? sound? gas mileage? it's looking like lots of fitment issues for little effect. this was going to be my next mod, but i'm second thinking it.


Don't hold your breath waiting for before/after results from me, LOL! I'm lucky to find some time to do any installs at all. The installation was really not difficult at all, and bending that lower heat shield a little bit is no problem.

There may be a slight difference in the engine sound, but not particularly evident. It also sounds a bit different because of the Gatorback belts, IMO. And I'm on the 3.8 pulley right now, so that reduced SC rpm affects the eng sounds as well.

Think of the Plog this way: It's an excellent alternative to running a front PEM, for those of us that are not interested in running headers on their Riv. I've already got a header'd car, don't need 2. I guarantee you it flows a hell of a lot better than stock or a PEM, and "should" reduce underhood temps if you go with the coated version, like I chose to do. Just need to get the coated crossover on to complete it.

My view is that if you are considering headers, do headers. If you don't want to run headers, go Plog, perferably coated.

Next fill will get my tank back up to near 100% premium, then I'll put the 3.6 back on and maybe hook up the LS1M and check for WOT KR, and let you know how it seems to compare. The best comparison would come at the track, but I'm really not planning on any more 1/4's with the Riv.
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PostSubject: Re: Plog!! (power log thread)   Mon May 19, 2008 11:24 am

If the Riv was not my daily driver, it would have headers. And if I was the only driver.
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Mr.Riviera
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PostSubject: Re: Plog!! (power log thread)   Mon May 19, 2008 11:44 am

i would do header too if i had the money. i know the knockoffs arent that much, but it would have to be welded back up and i dont want to pay for another ($100+) install when a plog is a DIY project.
ok next paycheck i'll get the plog wink
thanks dave for the details.

_________________
1996 with 244k miles, L324" FWI -> ported N* -> Ported Gen V w/3.0" Pulley, Stage 3 Phenolic I/C, ZZP FMHE, 1.84 RR, Headers and 3" pipe to mufflers, F-body brakes, and lowered on Eibachs.
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Buapo
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PostSubject: Problems with stainless ZZP Powerlog - cracked?   Sun May 25, 2008 5:04 am

No, it isn't me. I was looking around to buy one on ClubGP, and I found this post which is kind of interesting.

Thread Link

Yeah, so his stainless (version 2) plog cracked.

Jesus, I wonder why. It's getting harder and harder to bite the bullet on this mod! almost want to go headers and say fuck it, but it'll cost me a shit-ton more money.
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deekster_caddy
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PostSubject: Re: Plog!! (power log thread)   Sun May 25, 2008 7:09 am

Headers will not be that much more money if you buy used, or get the knockoff SLPs. I had my header install done for $300 start to finish. And if you think about the time you'll spend installing the Plog/rear PEM, then removing it all again later, you might as well just wait and save up for the headers.
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Buapo
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PostSubject: Re: Plog!! (power log thread)   Sun May 25, 2008 2:04 pm

The only problem is, I don't want to go past the 3.4" pulley - simply because of the money.

The Riviera is very heavy, and it'll never be as fast as my Regal was with similar mods.

I still love this car, but I'm not sure the headers would be worth it, especially considering I've already invested in a downpipe.

I'm actually considering getting 3800Performance's ported manis for a total price of $224. Yes, it still uses the crappy front manifold, but I'll still get the flow I'm looking for.

Don't get me wrong, I'd really love to slap some headers on this car. It would be cool as hell. Unfortunately, I can't find any of those knock-off stainless headers anywhere, only the mild steel which people have said they had a lot of problems with.
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Buapo
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PostSubject: Re: Plog!! (power log thread)   Sun May 25, 2008 2:22 pm

I just got a PM from the guy on Club GP.

He's willing to sell his "500 mile" stainless/coated plog for $225 shipped. He's in Canada, so that's an okay deal. It's not amazing, though.

I might just have to wait until I get a good deal or something.
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palermocorey90
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PostSubject: Re: Plog!! (power log thread)   Sun May 25, 2008 2:25 pm

im going to be running PEMs, they cant be that crappy
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Buapo
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PostSubject: Re: Plog!! (power log thread)   Sun May 25, 2008 2:32 pm

Well Corey, apparently the stock front manifold isn't so great. It flows a lot less exhaust than the rear. Of course, I'm just repeating things that I've heard.

The PEMs would be easy to install - I'd do it myself. Hell, I'd try to to the headers myself too. Fuck paying someone a small fortune to have them only spend an hour on this. Plus, no leaking, no extra heat, etc.
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PostSubject: Re: Plog!! (power log thread)   Sun May 25, 2008 11:35 pm

The 3 primary tubes of the front manifold can be opened up quite a bit, and the main PEM vendors also weld additional material on the outside of the tubes so they can open them up more without worrying about grinding too far. However, that only opens up the 3 primaries. A big problem with the front manifold is the main body is so dang small in diameter, it doesn't take full advantage of the enlarged primaries. GM really f'd up the front manifold.

I ported my own front PEM last year and installed in the summer. Simple installation, really. Not satisfied, I bought a SS coated Plog and coated crossover last winter and installed the Plog a couple weeks ago. Happy so far, no complaints. Still need to install the crossover though. I didn't read your link yet, but this is the first time I've heard of an issue with the improved design. Will have to keep an eye on mine.
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PostSubject: Re: Plog!! (power log thread)   Mon May 26, 2008 7:18 pm

This stinks. If the SLP headers were $400, there wouldn't be a question. I'd just do those.

Arg!
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PostSubject: Re: Plog!! (power log thread)   Mon May 26, 2008 11:40 pm

Ben, a lot of guys are using the 2nd gen Plogs with no problems. As with anything you might buy anywhere, there will always be some defectives items sold now and then. If you don't see yourself spending the bucks for headers down the road, go ahead and do the Plog, stainless at least, if not also coated.
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Buapo
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PostSubject: Re: Plog!! (power log thread)   Tue May 27, 2008 3:03 am

I know, I know.

It's just... I got screwed over by a ZZP PCM that had "all the bugs worked out" for my Regal, and it was a really upsetting experience. Got my money back, sure, but pain-in-the-ass factor +10.

I'm now thinking that I should do a rear ported manifold as well. It might be a little more difficult to install, but at the end of the day, I'll have no where else to improve, and I should have very little KR with my 3.4" pulley - which is my ultimate goal. Considering I was running a "regular" set of PEM's on my Regal, I bet I had more KR than I thought I did. That thing did run very strong though.
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PostSubject: Re: Plog!! (power log thread)   Tue May 27, 2008 10:08 am

Don't make assumptions about your KR levels. Have you been able to scan for KR? With all the mods in my sig, plus my Plog installed, and currently with my 3.8 pulley installed, I'm seeing up to 4deg of KR. Our mods are very similar except I'm currently gutted with a drop in K&N filter, FWI soon I hope, but I don't think that will have a significant KR impact. However I am running a DHP 1.5 modified tune, with a few degrees of timing added, plus some fueling changes. I wonder if I shouldn't pull back a bit of that timing. Right now I won't even consider putting the 3.6 pulley back on.
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AA
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PostSubject: Re: Plog!! (power log thread)   Tue May 27, 2008 11:51 am

Your DHP timing tables are advanced, Dave. Might try setting them back to stock, or somewhere in between. I always thought your KR levels were too high for your mods.

_________________
'98 SC Riviera 268k miles 298 HP/370 TQ 0-60: 5.79s ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 4087 lb 20.1 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley AL104 plugs 180 t-stat FWI w/K&N 1.9:1 rockers OR pushrods LS6 valve springs SLP headers ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts MaxAir shocks Addco sway bars UMI bushings GM STB Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus SS lines Brembo slotted discs DHP tuned Aeroforce Hidden Hitch


'05 GTO 49k miles 0-60: 4.8s 16.9 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun
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PostSubject: Re: Plog!! (power log thread)   Tue May 27, 2008 1:20 pm

Wanna know how much time I've spent with my PT since I bought it and got it set up? Zero.(big sigh...)

I agree completely about my KR situation, just shouldn't be seeing these levels. I'm thinking it's possibly the injectors not flowing normally, maybe gunked up. That's why I picked up Bill's cleaned/flowed set over the winter, but not installed yet.
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AA
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PostSubject: Re: Plog!! (power log thread)   Tue May 27, 2008 1:24 pm

Let me know if they help. I've noticed a slight increase in KR lately myself. Not huge, but enough that I couldn't run the 3.2" pulley this year. I think it could be the injectors, but not sure. I don't want to spend on new ones just yet. Maybe I'll just buy your old ones and clean them up!

_________________
'98 SC Riviera 268k miles 298 HP/370 TQ 0-60: 5.79s ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 4087 lb 20.1 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley AL104 plugs 180 t-stat FWI w/K&N 1.9:1 rockers OR pushrods LS6 valve springs SLP headers ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts MaxAir shocks Addco sway bars UMI bushings GM STB Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus SS lines Brembo slotted discs DHP tuned Aeroforce Hidden Hitch


'05 GTO 49k miles 0-60: 4.8s 16.9 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun
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PostSubject: Re: Plog!! (power log thread)   Tue May 27, 2008 1:42 pm

smile Just don't hold your breath waiting for them to become available.
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Mr.Riviera
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PostSubject: got a powerlog today   Tue Jun 24, 2008 10:06 pm

as the title says, i got a ZZP powerlog installed today. took a little bit longer than anticipated b/c of the heat shield and oil dip stick. other than that it was very easy to install by myself, in the apartment parking lot, with minimal tools and PB blaster. i cant really say i feel a big difference, but then again it was 95* out when i did the test run, and my fuel tables probably need to readjust some. no leaks and no fitment issues. i also opted for the high temp ceramic coating, which looks really well done. no scratches, chips or any flaws on the plog.
i did not put the heat shield back on b/c i couldnt get it to line up again. is this going to be a problem? anyone else with the plog get it to fit back in? i dont want ot melt my lower radiator hose on a long trip nervous
i'll put up some pics of it installed if you'd like to see them.

now if i could only get a tune...poke

_________________
1996 with 244k miles, L324" FWI -> ported N* -> Ported Gen V w/3.0" Pulley, Stage 3 Phenolic I/C, ZZP FMHE, 1.84 RR, Headers and 3" pipe to mufflers, F-body brakes, and lowered on Eibachs.
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PostSubject: Re: Plog!! (power log thread)   Tue Jun 24, 2008 10:43 pm

I left my shield off too, this spring, after going thru the PITA reinstall when I did the front PEM last year. I suspect the ceramic coated plog runs a fair bit cooler than the stock CI manifold.

That reminds me, can anyone get their engine up to operating temp, then take an infrared thermo and check their STOCK cast iron front manifold temps, like by each port? I'd like to compare to my Plog temps, and forgot to check before I removed the stock mani.
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PostSubject: Re: Plog!! (power log thread)   Tue Jun 24, 2008 10:45 pm

I don't think this mod is necessarily something you'd "feel" in typical driving. It's more likely to make a difference at the track at high RPM operation, when you are flowing more air.
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Mr.Riviera
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PostSubject: Re: Plog!! (power log thread)   Tue Jun 24, 2008 11:20 pm

i go WOT a LOT during a day. i was able to feel the 3"DP, and i expected the same gains with this. time will tell. it did seem to pull a little bit faster in the mid RPM range (like 3200+) but WOT doesnt feel and faster.

_________________
1996 with 244k miles, L324" FWI -> ported N* -> Ported Gen V w/3.0" Pulley, Stage 3 Phenolic I/C, ZZP FMHE, 1.84 RR, Headers and 3" pipe to mufflers, F-body brakes, and lowered on Eibachs.
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PostSubject: Re: Plog!! (power log thread)   Wed Jun 25, 2008 1:35 am

Mr.Riviera wrote:
now if i could only get a tune...poke

You know damn well where to get that.... suspect
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Buapo
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PostSubject: Re: Plog!! (power log thread)   Wed Jun 25, 2008 8:55 am

The plog and rear PEM are really the only mods, aside from a tune that I'm going to do.

If you got the rear PEM I think you would feel the difference in the top end a LOT more. That's where I really felt the improvement in my Regal after PEMs.

The DP is a great mod, but I think it really just goes to show how restrictive the DP is. I honestly don't know why these cars didn't come with this size downpipe stock, considering it doesn't make the car much louder (if at all) increases overall power (especially top end) and should increase gas mileage a little bit on the highway, because the exhaust gases will be flowing better away from the block.

But still, I slightly digress. I just think that the p-log and PEMs are more of an insurance and safety policy for our cars that are running the 3.4" pulley. I know you go WOT all the time, but since I've had my 3.4 installed, I refuse to go WOT until I've opened up my manifolds. I know everyone wants me to scan for KR, but I don't really drive this car as roughly as I drove my Regal. I should have scanned on the Regal, to be honest.
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