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 Write-Up: L32 (Series III SC) Install/swap, the saga continues

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urbsnspices
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: L32 (Series III SC) Install/swap, the saga continues   Thu Mar 22, 2007 10:35 am

Not sure why they stopped, maybe they just want to limit their stock. In my research I have not been able to fine a significant difference between the two brands.

Oh yeah, the other great reasons for not running the double chain: you have to modify the front cover and you have to disable the balance shaft. I am not a dynamics engineer, but it just seems like bad mojo to remove this.
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: L32 (Series III SC) Install/swap, the saga continues   Thu Mar 22, 2007 10:48 am

Yeah, loose the balance shaft and find out how smooth your engine used to run. Agree, bad idear...

_________________
'98 SC Riviera • 268k miles • 298 HP/370 TQ • 0-60: 5.79s • ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 • 4087 lb • 20.1 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley • AL104 plugs • 180ş t-stat • FWI w/K&N • 1.9:1 rockers • OR pushrods • LS6 valve springs • SLP headers • ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts • MaxAir shocks • Addco sway bars • UMI bushings • GM STB • Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s • F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus • SS lines • Brembo slotted discs • DHP tuned • Aeroforce • Hidden Hitch


'05 GTO • 49k miles • 0-60: 4.8s • 16.9 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun
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Jason
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: L32 (Series III SC) Install/swap, the saga continues   Thu Mar 22, 2007 11:47 am

your post is making me wish I had ported my blower while it was off for the cam install frown



Quote :
This will take all my skill....
= stealing the candy Venus de Milo
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urbsnspices
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: L32 (Series III SC) Install/swap, the saga continues   Thu Mar 22, 2007 10:21 pm

Put in a few hours tonight and installed the HGs. Here are the Cometic Gaskets getting their copper spray treatment. Popular opinion says these MLS gaskets are better, but in reality it seems like only nitrous and ultra high advance will bust a regular ole graphite/metal head gasket. I went with popular opinion. Note that my extension cord also got the copper spray treatment.


Slap that 6!†İh on! Still second guessing myself, but this should be the left bank and it is pointed to the front. scratch


Heads installed, no turning back now. The other balance shaft is from my '97 motor (built in '96). The L32 balance shaft is obviously different, maybe stronger and better tuned? From pictures I have seen I think they started using the newer shaft in later L67s.


Remember the clean "operating table" from the first post? This table reminds me of that dentist I went to in the bowery. Some russian dentist who only said 4 words to me. "Dont worry, I fix..."
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: L32 (Series III SC) Install/swap, the saga continues   Wed Mar 28, 2007 9:51 pm

Worked a bit tonight, cleaned the gaskets off the intake manifold. I used a scotchbright pad and a palm sander. Prolly frowned upon, but if you just hold the sander flat, and only hit it for a second, it is unlikely that you will screw up the machined finish. Also this seal isnt as critical as the headgaskets.


Overlayed the gasket and used a sharpie to mark the material that over hangs. Only going to take off enough to match the gasket.


Working on these two runners


Nuttin fancy, no mirror polish, just a nice gasket match. I wonder how much a difference this will make. bonk Oh well once you start you gotta do them all.


Check this out, this is molded in to the bottom of the sand cast manifold. WTF! thumbsup It is the Weezer 'W" symbol!?!

I dont know what to say except...
Oo-ee-oo I look just like Buddy Holly
Oh-oh, and you're Mary Tyler Moore
I don't care what they say about us anyway
... rock lil ole school weezer..
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nothincame2mind
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: L32 (Series III SC) Install/swap, the saga continues   Wed Mar 28, 2007 10:01 pm

If you want to destroy my sweater...

Good call on the Weezer.
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: L32 (Series III SC) Install/swap, the saga continues   Sun Apr 01, 2007 9:29 pm

I have to say there is more gasket matching to be done on the intake manifold then the heads. rolleyes It seemed to me there was just a little lip and some rough casting to clean up on the heads. On the manifold there was a good size lip on 3 sides of each runner. You open it up to the gasket and naturally you have to blend it in. Seemed like I was taking a lot of material out of there, just to get the gaskets to match. It is easier to grind the aluminum, but the bits are more likely to bounce around and break. And break they did. Spent about 4-5 hours today and finished things up.

While I was in there, I removed two posts that obstruct the manifold. I wouldnt consider these critical supports. They are removed when people machine their manifold for an intercooler. They were easy to remove, I just nicked the top and middle with a cutoff wheel and gave them a tap. Cast aluminum is pretty brittle when you give it a place to crack, then I just smoothed out the stump.
before:


My wrist got tired, but here it is after some smoothing:
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: L32 (Series III SC) Install/swap, the saga continues   Fri Apr 06, 2007 1:28 am

Put some wheezer on in the ole garage and got to work. Personal additives included Tab energy drink and Disaronno. A special mix developed by yours truly for the occasion. Not too fond of either by itself, but when put together...atleast you have a conversation piece.

After degreasing the lower intake manifold I did some extra work on it. First off I plugged the EGR port with RTV. In case you didnt know, the EGR cycles exhaust back through the combustion cycle. This warms your car up quicker and helps minimize pollution during warm up. People argue back and forth about the neccesity of the EGR system. The short of it is, if you disable it like this, you might lose 1-2MPG as your car is warming up. The plus being that you never cycle exhaust back through the engine.


You can see the other two holes that are plugged. These are a coolant loop that sends coolant to the throttle body. Not something I need. I drilled and tapped the holes for these steel plugs. Would have been nice to use aluminum to match the LIM material, but they arent going anywhere. I used teflon paste to seal the threads and laid a little GM thread lock on top for good measure.




It is comming together! Gaskets in place, note the black RTV in the corners. For good measure I put a thin coat on the bottom of the LIM. I dont want this leaking.


Rockers and lower intake manifold installed.


Made myself another "Tabsaronno" and had to take some macro shots. You would think they would allow more clearance, but if things start rubbin here you are already sol.


Every garage needs a sign or two... banana In the words of Huter S Thompson, "Is this not a reasonable place to park?" freak


Back to work..I rotated the engine to check clearances. Obviously it is pretty good. Spinning the engine by hand is a best case scenario, but there is a lot of margin here. The goop on there is assembly lube.


Covers on. I primed and painted, I used a rustoleum pebble textured spraypaint. Came out nice. Per my brothers instructions I baked these in the oven to cure the paint. Hopefully they dont look like crap after a few miles.


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T Riley
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: L32 (Series III SC) Install/swap, the saga continues   Fri Apr 06, 2007 12:00 pm

IM JEALOUS bounce bounce
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Jason
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: L32 (Series III SC) Install/swap, the saga continues   Fri Apr 06, 2007 12:02 pm

Impressive work! I don't know if disabling the EGR on the L67 will reap any benefits without the appropriate pcm tuning.
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: L32 (Series III SC) Install/swap, the saga continues   Sun Apr 08, 2007 2:30 pm

A GN buddy of mine told me that the egr helps reduce knock..not sure if it does on this gen 3.8 though!?
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: L32 (Series III SC) Install/swap, the saga continues   Mon Apr 09, 2007 8:26 am

I spend a lot of time soaking up what the GN guys talk about. Even they argue back an forth about the EGR. The EGR will help you from running overly rich, but that has more to do with emissions then anything else. There is a lot more to it, but wont go into all that. My PCM already has the code removed, and my headers have the EGR tube capped. My motivation for removing it is mostly about removing a point of failure.

I am buying an adaptor, so I can use my 97 throttle body on the GenV SC. I will probibly want to do a little porting/matching on these parts for better flow. Just when I thought I was getting close to putting it back together...

Speaking of never being done. After I got the valve covers on I turn the engine over a few times. To circulate some oil, and to check for clearance issues. Well it turned over fine, so I dont think I screw up the install. On sunday I looked at the engine and you could see oil seeping out from the valve cover gaskets. scratch WTF This p!$$ me off, I have no idea what to think. Maybe this oil sealed the gaskets or if it is a problem. headshot


Update:
I cranked the engine over some more and no more oil leaks. All the same I really dont want to mess with an oil leak on a new engine. Some people run a bead of clear RTV in the gasket groove, put the gasket back in and then install. I decided to try this and hopefully it works out. Supposedly this is a pretty foolproof short of RTVing the covers down.
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: L32 (Series III SC) Install/swap, the saga continues   Wed Apr 18, 2007 8:19 am

I finally got around to buying a GENV to L67 TB adaptor:
http://www.wbodystore.com/grandprix/gen-v-throttle-body-adapter-p-167.html
I was thinking of making one, but this was loads easier. Got the blue one of course.


After I installed the SC, I started rounding up the other parts including the alternator. As you may or may not know, the Riv has a different alternator set up. The Riv alternator is larger and has a higher output. The rear mounted battery may have driven the need for a larger alternator. The GS/GTP alt puts out 110amps, the Riv is rated at 140A.

Anyway, when I was dry fitting the Alt it's large size seems to interfere with the different snout on the GENV SC. I pulled out a GEN3 snout for comparison and the old design has ~.25" more clearance on the Alt side. hammer Well $h!†. Hopefully I am wrong. If not, it looks like I will have to performs some surgery on the snout and or alt. Dammit Jim...!
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: L32 (Series III SC) Install/swap, the saga continues   Wed Apr 18, 2007 11:47 am

I have a solution for you on the alt

http://www.bonnevilleclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=72504&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=200

he had to shave some material of the alt
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: L32 (Series III SC) Install/swap, the saga continues   Wed Apr 18, 2007 1:21 pm

Awesome, thanks oldsman, this makes me feel better. I couldnt view the pics, but I know what he is talking about. There are two screw tips that protrude from outside of the alt case. If thats all it takes, then I am all set.

When I was holding it in place, it looked like there was much more of a clearance issue. I will try messing with it tonight.
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: L32 (Series III SC) Install/swap, the saga continues   Wed Apr 18, 2007 3:48 pm






Visual aid. happy


Let me know when that baby is running I will drive out to you just to ride in it. twisted
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: L32 (Series III SC) Install/swap, the saga continues   Wed Apr 18, 2007 3:52 pm

Holy Tight Clearances, Batman! evil

_________________
'98 SC Riviera • 268k miles • 298 HP/370 TQ • 0-60: 5.79s • ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 • 4087 lb • 20.1 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley • AL104 plugs • 180ş t-stat • FWI w/K&N • 1.9:1 rockers • OR pushrods • LS6 valve springs • SLP headers • ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts • MaxAir shocks • Addco sway bars • UMI bushings • GM STB • Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s • F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus • SS lines • Brembo slotted discs • DHP tuned • Aeroforce • Hidden Hitch


'05 GTO • 49k miles • 0-60: 4.8s • 16.9 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun
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urbsnspices
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: L32 (Series III SC) Install/swap, the saga continues   Wed Apr 18, 2007 7:32 pm

Couldnt see the pics at work, but it looks ok after the mod. Yeah tight as hell, but a quarter inch should be enough. If it looks too close for comfort, Im not afraid to grind the snout a bit. Its lucky I am so slow at puttng things together or else he'd be looking at my pics, razz

Ill let you know when it is together. pimp

alright. I taped the alt up to keep the metal out and started grinding with the dremel. cat After a bit of that I say to myself, " what am I doing? Making tea or grinding an alternator?!?" Thats when I busted out the 4in angle grinder and went to town. gavel


This is a good macro shot but a poor perspective. There is about .1875-.25in clearance.
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: L32 (Series III SC) Install/swap, the saga continues   Fri May 11, 2007 6:10 pm

Did a little work on the side mount. Filled it with a firm, but still pliable rubber. This happens to be concrete repair goop. I wanted somthing more firm then RTV, or caulk. Anyway it ended up being a PITA because it is runny before it sets up.




Here is somthing that I had installed before. My front poly trans mount. I took a big rod of poly and pushed in a bushing. Then I put flats on two sides so it would sit in the bracket. Among other things I really thing this helped me get those 2.0* 60' times.



Masked off the trans and applied some rubber under coating. Supposedly it helps kill the false kr that some see during shifts. I had some handy, so I sprayed away...



Engine going in


It is about time
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: L32 (Series III SC) Install/swap, the saga continues   Wed May 30, 2007 9:19 am

What a pain in the ass. They never tell you that one of the knock sensors is almost impossible to get to once the engine is installed. I have no idea how I am going to plug in the firewall kr sensor. It is one of those frustrating things. I can feel it, I know you could fit the connector on, but not easily. fµİk, I am going to have to get the thing way up on jack stand or somthing and have my wife plug it in or something. I think my hands are too big... gripe You almost need two people, one to fish the plug up the engines ass and the other to snap it in.

Pain in the ASS, number two. I am putting on the belts and it turns out that the reverse threaded idler/tensioner bolt is stripped. WTF I wouldnt worry about it, but you cant flex the tensioner when the bolt is stripped. So fµİk. I am going to try to JB weld in the bolt with a metal idler. The whole thing is trashed anyway. I hate to ghetto rig this, but Im not going to wait another 3 weeks to start this 6!†İh up.
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: L32 (Series III SC) Install/swap, the saga continues   Tue Jun 05, 2007 4:00 pm

It runs! Surprisingly with NO trouble codes. Unfortunatly I did make a rookie mistake. I didnt refill the radiator before starting up. nono It warmed up with out coolant circulating properly. The temp gauge only got to 200, but I know the block got hotter. Hopefully I didnt seriously damage anything. I mistakenly though I could bleed the system and just top off the overflow tank. headbutt

Anyway, after it cooled down I changed the oil and filled the rad.

The idle is still a little rough. Plugs and wires are new. I am going to pull the plugs and check the gap.

Also as irritating side notes, my AC compressor sounds like it is grinding or something. I think the clutch is sticking because the car sat so long. Just a guess. Also my master cylinder seems to have finally pooped out. Again, I think because the car sat so long.

Anyway even ideling it sounded awesome: XP cam + Headers + Borla mufflers = heart
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: L32 (Series III SC) Install/swap, the saga continues   Tue Jun 05, 2007 4:04 pm

As soon as I get my car back from the body shop I am heading to your place to see the monster. smile

congratulations
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: L32 (Series III SC) Install/swap, the saga continues   Tue Jun 05, 2007 4:13 pm

oldsman105 wrote:
As soon as I get my car back from the body shop I am heading to your place to see the monster. :)

congratulations

Give me a week or two and Ill drive out to you.

I am sort of ashamed of the appearance of the car right now. It needs to be detailed inside and out. I have high standards but low patience in this area, so I may have it professionally done. I can do up-keep, but after 2.5 years of sitting, the car needs a pro.
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: L32 (Series III SC) Install/swap, the saga continues   Wed Jun 06, 2007 8:20 am

urbsnspices wrote:
oldsman105 wrote:
As soon as I get my car back from the body shop I am heading to your place to see the monster. smile

congratulations

Give me a week or two and Ill drive out to you.

I am sort of ashamed of the appearance of the car right now. It needs to be detailed inside and out. I have high standards but low patience in this area, so I may have it professionally done. I can do up-keep, but after 2.5 years of sitting, the car needs a pro.

Bring it to me, I think I could do a job you'd be happy with. thumbsup Of course it would be a long way to bring it for a detail job.
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urbsnspices
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: L32 (Series III SC) Install/swap, the saga continues   Wed Jun 06, 2007 12:06 pm

[quote="99Rivman"]
urbsnspices wrote:

Bring it to me, I think I could do a job you'd be happy with. thumbsup Of course it would be a long way to bring it for a detail job.

I saw the detailing of your silver arrow, very nice.

I am not sure if I will do it immediately or wait till after I move but I will probibly get some paint touch-ups done. No dings or dents, just cosmetic blems. But there are enough of them to warrent some work. Might even need a new clear coat.
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