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 FAQ: Brake Rotors and Pads

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jax95riv
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Brake Rotors and Pads   Thu Dec 27, 2007 8:38 pm

I have the drilled rotors on mine and I believe it's helped tremendously against the warping issues. I've heard the pros and cons about drilled rotors and I guess it's just a matter of personal preference. As far as the pads go, there is no option, GET CERAMIC.
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AA
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Brake Rotors and Pads   Thu Dec 27, 2007 8:52 pm

I also have drilled rotors. They seem to be holding up very well, and maybe it's just me, but feels like they brake a lot better in the wet.

_________________
'98 SC Riviera 268k miles 298 HP/370 TQ 0-60: 5.79s ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 4087 lb 20.1 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley AL104 plugs 180 t-stat FWI w/K&N 1.9:1 rockers OR pushrods LS6 valve springs SLP headers ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts MaxAir shocks Addco sway bars UMI bushings GM STB Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus SS lines Brembo slotted discs DHP tuned Aeroforce Hidden Hitch


'05 GTO 49k miles 0-60: 4.8s 16.9 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun
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turtleman
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Brake Rotors and Pads   Thu Dec 27, 2007 8:59 pm

Ryan I think you have a good set up picked out. I'd say unless you actually hope to increase braking power from stock, a set of raybestos ceramics or other premium grade pad with a lifetime warranty would be sufficient - attainable at any parts store. just don't get the cheap. most carry raybestos.

Also, I agree with Randall. The imported rotors pretty much suck especially on a heavy car. ceramic pads do NOT make up for crap rotors. They make the rotors worse. Although I think every big parts store offers US made (raybestos usually) brakes
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RhinoFLA
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Brake Rotors and Pads   Fri Dec 28, 2007 9:46 pm

Quote :
are you doing brakes all the way around?
you know about the F-body upgrade right? assuming your riv is 97+

just the front, the rear are in good shape. and no, i don't know about the upgrade, fill me in!

hmm so it's mixed reviews here on the drilled rotors :>
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AA
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Brake Rotors and Pads   Sat Dec 29, 2007 1:25 am

One criticism of drilled is they can crack under extreme use. I don't think this is a real concern for most of us.

_________________
'98 SC Riviera 268k miles 298 HP/370 TQ 0-60: 5.79s ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 4087 lb 20.1 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley AL104 plugs 180 t-stat FWI w/K&N 1.9:1 rockers OR pushrods LS6 valve springs SLP headers ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts MaxAir shocks Addco sway bars UMI bushings GM STB Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus SS lines Brembo slotted discs DHP tuned Aeroforce Hidden Hitch


'05 GTO 49k miles 0-60: 4.8s 16.9 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun
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T Riley
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Brake Rotors and Pads   Sat Dec 29, 2007 10:56 am

AA wrote:
One criticism of drilled is they can crack under extreme use. I don't think this is a real concern for most of us.

97rivman COUGH COUGH razz
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RhinoFLA
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Brake Rotors and Pads   Sat Dec 29, 2007 9:48 pm

yeah, the conditions will be far from extreme :> unless I pull a dukes of hazard on my way to work..

matt what upgrade?
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Mr.Riviera
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Brake Rotors and Pads   Sat Dec 29, 2007 10:11 pm

we can us the rotors, calipers and pads off a newer f-body (firebird, camaro, and maybe the c5 vette)
it only fits on the 97+ lower knuckles, but if you have a 95/96 you can switch out the knuckles.

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1996 with 244k miles, L324" FWI -> ported N* -> Ported Gen V w/3.0" Pulley, Stage 3 Phenolic I/C, ZZP FMHE, 1.84 RR, Headers and 3" pipe to mufflers, F-body brakes, and lowered on Eibachs.
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Brake Rotors and Pads   Sat Dec 29, 2007 10:42 pm

is that what you did
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Mr.Riviera
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Brake Rotors and Pads   Sat Dec 29, 2007 10:50 pm

no but some have, and places like zzp sell kits for the regals/gtps. (but i would find some used calipers off ebay or LS1tech wink

Rivman did it on his 95 . i dont know all the details, but the fbody brakes are larger 12" rotors with dual piston aluminum calipers that will stop better and weigh less than the rivs.

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1996 with 244k miles, L324" FWI -> ported N* -> Ported Gen V w/3.0" Pulley, Stage 3 Phenolic I/C, ZZP FMHE, 1.84 RR, Headers and 3" pipe to mufflers, F-body brakes, and lowered on Eibachs.
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Brake Rotors and Pads   Thu Jan 03, 2008 6:55 pm

I ordered the above mentioned parts last night and it shipped last night! expected delivery is tomorrow.. 197.00 total, and free shipping woo..

that's why I like ordering from summit..
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Brake Rotors and Pads   Thu Jan 03, 2008 8:12 pm

I didn't see this thread in time but I can guarantee you'd be happy with good pads and rotors ordered from NAPA. Which parts did you get?

I also find the cheap rotors are only good for one set of pads, good rotors last for 100K miles or two sets of pads at least. It also makes a difference to get good pads and break them in properly. (good pads will come with break-in instructions!)
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Brake Rotors and Pads   Fri Jan 04, 2008 2:05 pm

...last time I did my brakes, used Raybestos pads and Bendix rotors from Advance. What surprised the counter guy was the Bendix rotors weighed a *lot* more than the comparable, store brand. !

Driven these since July - quite happy.

By the way - if you want drilled and slotted rotors and you have the larger brakes you can get them from gmpartsdirect.com. For my '98 Riv, numbers are 89000529 (Left - New Part #: 19171339) and 89000530 (Right - New Part #: 19171340) for the front rotors. On the site they show up as for the F-body but in case you did not know, the brakes on the later Rivs were pulled out of the F-body parts bin as a quick improvement over the originals. Anyway - they are GM OEM, mine were made in Canada - pretty sure they are made by Raybestos. At the time I bought (2005) they were about $89 each. They are now $80 each. I liked 'em, they made this cool and relatively quiet whine when I stopped, and they stopped *really* well. shocked I got 2 years out of 'em, replaced them because of a problem with the pads, actually. For some reason the pads left crap on the rotors. Anyway - I suggest you paint them with hi temp (rotor) paint (AutoZone) but mask off the friction surfaces (and hub face), then use some rotor coating (from CarQuest) to coat and condition the friction surfaces. And when you install them, if you paint them up you *must* break them in - they will smoke and stink on break in but it's worth it to avoid the rust. neutral

Thinking about it, I suspect one reason the cheepie imported (China) rotors warp - if you look at them in cross section or put them on a lathe and spin them they are machined straight enough, but the thickness of the friction plate varies a lot from place to place around the circumference. You can see the variation with naked eye, don't need micrometer or even glasses hardly. With that thickness variation it's no surprise that after a number of heat/cool cycles the cheepie rotors warp. They kind of have to due to the uneven heating of the uneven material. On the other hand, the Bendix rotors did not appear to vary (thickness of each face of rotor) for jack, and are working well so far. ride

Happy new year,

Albertj
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AA
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Brake Rotors and Pads   Fri Jan 04, 2008 2:36 pm

If the Bendix were "a lot" heavier than the Chinese cheaper ones, is that really a good thing? I always thought having more unsprung weight was a negative in regards to cornering, traction, acceleration, and wheel hop.

_________________
'98 SC Riviera 268k miles 298 HP/370 TQ 0-60: 5.79s ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 4087 lb 20.1 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley AL104 plugs 180 t-stat FWI w/K&N 1.9:1 rockers OR pushrods LS6 valve springs SLP headers ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts MaxAir shocks Addco sway bars UMI bushings GM STB Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus SS lines Brembo slotted discs DHP tuned Aeroforce Hidden Hitch


'05 GTO 49k miles 0-60: 4.8s 16.9 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun
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Mr.Riviera
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Brake Rotors and Pads   Fri Jan 04, 2008 2:43 pm

i too have bendix rotors on the front. i think i am using their pads too. lifetime warranty, so when they wear low i can send em in and get a new set.
you're right they are heavy compared to chepo's but about the same weight as the stock ones. they are yet to warp, even with hard stops. i get some vibration on hard stops from 90, but it could be tires,pads, or combo of things at that speed/heat. rotors still dont warp after a run like that though.
my only complaint is no initial bite. but they should last a long time and are very consistent.

_________________
1996 with 244k miles, L324" FWI -> ported N* -> Ported Gen V w/3.0" Pulley, Stage 3 Phenolic I/C, ZZP FMHE, 1.84 RR, Headers and 3" pipe to mufflers, F-body brakes, and lowered on Eibachs.
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Brake Rotors and Pads   Fri Jan 04, 2008 2:53 pm

Aaron: as a percentage of the weight of the car, I doubt the heavier rotors affect cornering/traction/acceleration as much as, say, installing the STS sway bars might. That is, I doubt there is a discernible difference. Would not surprise me if the Bendix rotors were an OEM option, albeit maybe for the F body.

Matthew: Can't tell about initial bite because I did a break-in. I did ~50 stops from 30-40 MPH to breakin the surfaces and cure the paint.

happy new year

albertj
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RhinoFLA
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Brake Rotors and Pads   Sat Jan 05, 2008 3:51 am

Quote :
I didn't see this thread in time but I can guarantee you'd be happy with good pads and rotors ordered from NAPA. Which parts did you get?

I got summit extreme performance cross drilled/slotted rotors and for pads I got Hawk ceramic
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Brake Rotors and Pads   Sat Jan 05, 2008 9:30 am

RhinoFLA wrote:
I got summit extreme performance cross drilled/slotted rotors and for pads I got Hawk ceramic

Now you just need some new shuz to sport the new rotors! wink
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RhinoFLA
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Brake Rotors and Pads   Sat Jan 05, 2008 10:29 am

ahaha.. I think I want to paint my calipers while they're off
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Brake Rotors and Pads   Sat Jan 05, 2008 5:00 pm

Welp, they're on.. and wow.. what a difference.. Great stopping power. I didn't notice until it was too late but Summit's rotors are made in china, and drilled/slotted in Canada. I don't have any complaints with the rotors, but I like to buy American parts
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Brake Rotors and Pads   Thu Mar 06, 2008 11:16 am

I'm looking at getting new front rotors. The drilled ones I got last year aren't bad yet, but I can feel them starting to judder more at high speeds. Good for the price I paid, but I want to step up to something better that will work with the stock wheels.

I believe drilling and slotting works. I've noticed my drilled grip nicely, especially in the wet. I prefer to this style again. I've read about cryo rotors, frozen iron that is supposed to resist warping. Anyone have opinions on this?

Buying criteria

1. Prime concern is using good steel formula that will last a long time and not warp.

2. Price is next. I want to spend $150-$200 for a pair. I'd go a little higher if I think the product is worth it, lower if it's on sale. I retail price that's too low suggests low quality to me. I think the cut-off is about $75 per side. Below that I begin to think it's no good.

3. Less weight would be a great thing, as long as it doesn't compromise integrity. I might even pay a little more for a light weight racing disc if it claimed to last a long time.

4. Appearance. I like the look of drilled or drilled + slotted. I can't see paying $200 for plain rotors unless they are likely to take tons of abuse and hold up for 50k+ miles, of give some other performance advantage. I also think rust preventative coatings are worth it if they last.

Here are a few deals I've found so far:

Power Slot Cryo:

http://www.autoanything.com/brakes/61A2723A0A0.aspx?kc=JOLLY20,MERCSHOP&from_search=1

R1 Concepts:

http://store.r1concepts.com/Items/Item.aspx?SKU=pdsf0273%20-%20120.62055

EBC drilled/slotted:

http://performance.gearheadracingparts.com/basket.php?makeid=3&year=1998&modelid=16&partid=78&brandid=4074

Frozen Rotors:

http://www.tirerack.com/brakes/brakes.jsp?&make=Frozen+Rotors&model=Frozen+Rotors&group=Frozen+Rotors&autoMake=Buick&autoModel=Riviera&autoYear=1998&autoModClar=&perfCode=P

Brembo drilled:

http://www.tirerack.com/brakes/brakes.jsp?&make=Brembo&model=Sport+Drilled+Rotors&group=Sport+Drilled+Rotor&autoMake=Buick&autoModel=Riviera&autoYear=1998&autoModClar=&perfCode=S

Power Stop drilled/slotted:

http://performance.gearheadracingparts.com/basket.php?makeid=3&year=1998&modelid=16&partid=78&brandid=3876

I'm not an expert on brakes. Right now I'm leaning toward the Brembos. Anyone have opinions or experience with higher quality brakes? Any options I'm overlooking? Thanks in advance for the help.

_________________
'98 SC Riviera 268k miles 298 HP/370 TQ 0-60: 5.79s ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 4087 lb 20.1 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley AL104 plugs 180 t-stat FWI w/K&N 1.9:1 rockers OR pushrods LS6 valve springs SLP headers ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts MaxAir shocks Addco sway bars UMI bushings GM STB Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus SS lines Brembo slotted discs DHP tuned Aeroforce Hidden Hitch


'05 GTO 49k miles 0-60: 4.8s 16.9 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun
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ewolfe0050
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Brake Rotors and Pads   Thu Mar 06, 2008 11:34 am

I have the Brembo's and they work well. The vents are angled to the front whereas others I have seen angle back but that's how they say to install. The only negitive is the coating wears or burns off quickly so the hub starts to develope surface rust as well as the edges...anywhere the pads don't touch. I am going to paint (VHT Caliper paint) the bare areas so it's not an eye sore anymore. Performance is great and they seem to be well made so I am hoping the rotors don't develope cracks because of the crossdrilling and venting like most cheap ones are prone to do.
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Brake Rotors and Pads   Thu Mar 06, 2008 11:41 am

Thanks, Eric. How many miles do you estimate are on your set? Any judder slowing down from 85 mph?

Anyone heard anything good/bad about R1 Concepts?

http://store.r1concepts.com/Items/Item.aspx?SKU=pdsf0273%20-%20120.62055

_________________
'98 SC Riviera 268k miles 298 HP/370 TQ 0-60: 5.79s ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 4087 lb 20.1 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley AL104 plugs 180 t-stat FWI w/K&N 1.9:1 rockers OR pushrods LS6 valve springs SLP headers ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts MaxAir shocks Addco sway bars UMI bushings GM STB Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus SS lines Brembo slotted discs DHP tuned Aeroforce Hidden Hitch


'05 GTO 49k miles 0-60: 4.8s 16.9 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun
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http://www.cardomain.com/ride/657082/4
deekster_caddy
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Brake Rotors and Pads   Thu Mar 06, 2008 11:54 am

Aaron,

I don't race SCCA, that's the only reason I can think of to want drilled/slotted rotors. My Raybestos good stock replacements stop my car fast and hard, time and time again, even with multiple track runs. They don't warp until they get thin, and then it's near replacement time anyway. I drive my car hard, and lots of city driving, and track time, and my stockers work great and don't warp.

I don't think it's worth the money for the big dollar rotors unless you are planning to start racing SCCA or something similar. I paid $75 each for my Raybestos rotors. The Raybestos Kevlar pads are a nice compliment and have lasted 80000 miles so far without complaint.

Good luck with whatever you choose!
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Brake Rotors and Pads   Thu Mar 06, 2008 12:02 pm

Thanks Derek. I'll look into the Raybestos.

I found these Cryo-Stop rotors at Tire-Rack. I like the coating, the machined balancing, and the price:

Link

I agree, the drill & slot is mostly a looks thing, but I can't help but believe they help with cooling and lowering unsprung weight. I want to consider any design feature that can help slow the car from high speeds over and over again without damage.

I use the Akebono ProACT ceramic pads, and couldn't be happier. I won't use the Hawks again after trying the Akes.

_________________
'98 SC Riviera 268k miles 298 HP/370 TQ 0-60: 5.79s ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 4087 lb 20.1 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley AL104 plugs 180 t-stat FWI w/K&N 1.9:1 rockers OR pushrods LS6 valve springs SLP headers ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts MaxAir shocks Addco sway bars UMI bushings GM STB Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus SS lines Brembo slotted discs DHP tuned Aeroforce Hidden Hitch


'05 GTO 49k miles 0-60: 4.8s 16.9 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun


Last edited by AA on Fri Apr 04, 2008 9:03 pm; edited 1 time in total
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