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 Write-Up: Installing Intercooler (IC)

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T Riley
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Installing Intercooler (IC)   Tue Nov 17, 2009 2:57 pm

ssei turbo wrote:
i noticed the amount of room around the nose of the car, lots of room to mount a big a2a for turbo! that thought has also crossed my mind as well..... anyone done that here?
Be the first.
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Installing Intercooler (IC)   Tue Nov 17, 2009 8:57 pm

ssei turbo wrote:
i noticed the amount of room around the nose of the car, lots of room to mount a big a2a for turbo! that thought has also crossed my mind as well..... anyone done that here?

Not that I know of, but don't let that stop you! It's been done plenty of times on 3800 builds, this should be no different, besides the mounting and tubing...
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Installing Intercooler (IC)   Sat May 15, 2010 5:35 pm

Drew, I never noticed how you turned your alternator over and up. So basically you left the bottom bolt out and turned it up so you could use the support bracket that bolts up to the blower case? I had never considered that. I have the support bracket that bolts to the rear of the alternator off so the two front ears of the alternator hold it in stock position (without the rear support bracket). Is there any reason you chose to do it that way as opposed to just deleting that bracket?


Another question for Drew and EWolfe, why do you recommend the Meziere pump over say a bosch pump? Is it just a - it flows more and therefore gets heat out of the system faster thing or what?
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Installing Intercooler (IC)   Tue Jul 06, 2010 4:50 pm

Hows the engine coolant temps with all that stuff blocking the air flow of your radiator?
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Installing Intercooler (IC)   Tue Jul 06, 2010 4:59 pm

I've got a 4x23" wide transcooler blocking the lower 'mouth' under the bumper, and it doesn't seem to effect my engine coolant temps at all.


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'98 SC Riviera 268k miles 298 HP/370 TQ 0-60: 5.79s ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 4087 lb 20.1 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley AL104 plugs 180 t-stat FWI w/K&N 1.9:1 rockers OR pushrods LS6 valve springs SLP headers ZZP fuel rails
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Installing Intercooler (IC)   Tue Jul 06, 2010 5:03 pm

AA wrote:
I've got a 4x23" wide transcooler blocking the lower 'mouth' under the bumper, and it doesn't seem to effect my engine coolant temps at all.


Sry, that question was for Dreww in response to this pic....was just curious smile

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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Installing Intercooler (IC)   Tue Jul 06, 2010 5:10 pm

Lol, I can see your point there. I've read at a trans cooler site that the front-most cooler has near 100% efficiency, behind the radiator is 75%, and behind the AC condenser you can expect 60%. That's actually better than I would expect.



Using the above idea, we could say if you covered the entire radiator area with cooling devices, it would still have 75% efficiency compared to stock. Judging from Drew's picture, he should be at least 85-90% efficient.

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'98 SC Riviera 268k miles 298 HP/370 TQ 0-60: 5.79s ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 4087 lb 20.1 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley AL104 plugs 180 t-stat FWI w/K&N 1.9:1 rockers OR pushrods LS6 valve springs SLP headers ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts MaxAir shocks Addco sway bars UMI bushings GM STB Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus SS lines Brembo slotted discs DHP tuned Aeroforce Hidden Hitch


'05 GTO 49k miles 0-60: 4.8s 16.9 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Installing Intercooler (IC)   Tue Jul 06, 2010 5:17 pm

AA wrote:
Lol, I can see your point there. I've read at a trans cooler site that the front-most cooler has near 100% efficiency, behind the radiator is 75%, and behind the AC condenser you can expect 60%. That's actually better than I would expect.

Using the above idea, we could say if you covered the entire radiator area with cooling devices, it would still have 75% efficiency compared to stock. Judging from Drew's picture, he should be at least 85-90% efficient.

I would think thickness of cooler would also need to be added to that equation, since the air flow through coolers would be different depending on the thickness.

good info though, thanks!
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Installing Intercooler (IC)   Tue Jul 06, 2010 5:30 pm

Yeah, I agree. And the temp of the coolant or trans fluid also plays into it. I'm not sure how hot the coolant in the IC gets, but I'd bet it's pretty warm. Trans fluid can be 250+ under extreme duty.

_________________
'98 SC Riviera 268k miles 298 HP/370 TQ 0-60: 5.79s ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 4087 lb 20.1 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley AL104 plugs 180 t-stat FWI w/K&N 1.9:1 rockers OR pushrods LS6 valve springs SLP headers ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts MaxAir shocks Addco sway bars UMI bushings GM STB Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus SS lines Brembo slotted discs DHP tuned Aeroforce Hidden Hitch


'05 GTO 49k miles 0-60: 4.8s 16.9 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Installing Intercooler (IC)   Fri Jul 09, 2010 7:49 pm

Anyone know off hand what size the stock S/C bolts are? I gotta buy some an inch longer for Manuels SSIC. Also, are we running green coolant or dexcool or what? Details...details...
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Installing Intercooler (IC)   Fri Jul 09, 2010 8:50 pm

Codith,
i don't have the exact answer to your question but I asked the same question some time back in preparation of installing a GenV on my car, which hasn't happened. Waaaaaaaaaa.

Anyway the answer i got was the following:

LIM to SC bolts needed for GenV are:

1-M8x1.25x140
1-M8x1.25x120
1-M8x1.25x80
7-M8x1.25x40

I don't know which ones are the stock ones for the Gen 3 and which are the longer ones for the GEN V, but I would guess they are cheap enough to replace all of them or gamble and just have the longer 2 on the list for the GenV.

Remember these bolts, stock, have the flange head design or washer head, however you prefer to call them.
So, if all you find are regular hex head, make allowance for a small area washer under the head of the hex head bolt.

I hope this helps.

Regarding the type coolant, that's up to you. The jury is split on that one. I have found half the people say Dexcool is fine with the new aluminum LIM gaskets and others just prefer using regular OL green coolant.
Whichever you use, just flush the cooling system while you have the chance before removing your intake and drain the system leaving only fresh water in it, so when you do break it down the only thing that can contaminate the oil is fresh water.
Then do the obvious and change your oil and filter when done and then put in the 50/50 mix of your choice. Just my recommendation from experience.
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Installing Intercooler (IC)   Fri Jul 09, 2010 9:14 pm

The bolts you say for the GenV are for no I/C or what?
With the coolant, I meant for the I/C system, not the motor.
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Installing Intercooler (IC)   Fri Jul 09, 2010 9:22 pm

I'm sorry, your correct. i did not look at the heading of the post.

Those were bolt length's for the GEN V install only and as far as the coolant for the IC, well I do not know what is recommended.

FAIL,
Rick
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Installing Intercooler (IC)   Sat Jul 10, 2010 3:52 am

Regarding coolant, I tend to agree with Rick's statement about the replacement manifold gaskets. Also, others have reported no problems after replacing those gaskets.

As for myself, with original gaskets (as far as I know) I switched to green coolant as soon as I bought the car, based on my brother's experience with customers' cars...

dunno
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Installing Intercooler (IC)   Tue Jan 25, 2011 7:55 pm

There might be a better place for this topic but it directly relates to the install of a full size IC. I know Eric has the new style ZZP setup so he's got their LIM that's groove-cut with a little passage for the front PCV passage through the supercharger that many full size cores block off. What did you do Drew?

This is kind of a sub-write-up for a PCV solution.

I'm installing the current WBS IC core and here's what I did. This same method should work for virtually any intercooler.

I added a fitting to the LIM for external way to the blocked side.


Add another one to the blower right there. (If you look at the passageway underneath the blower, you can see what area you need to drill for the new fitting) I used a 90 degree elbow and then the fitting. More pics...





plenty of clearance from boost bypass lever
There is a little wiggle room for the exact location to drill and tap for the fitting on the blower but make sure you give yourself enough room to screw in your elbow piece without hitting the case.
It turns out, the two fittings line up almost perfectly to each-other as far as depth. I should also point out that this is a gen V blower. The gen 3 is not the same. I have to check to see if the location on a gen 3 blower would be the same.

Now, tie the two together.





My intercooler recedes slightly from the edges of the blower feet and LIM mounting points so basically my hose sneaks through that area. This could be different for other intercooler cores so check clearance before you make a final decision about routing and choosing fittings.


This would easily clear OEM fuel rails. I have no definite way to check against my aftermarket fuel rails without taking them off my car but it looks like it should be ok.

Materials I used:
1 - 1/8" x 27 tap [$6.99 Ace Hardware]
1 - 21/64" drill bit [$5.99 Ace Hardware]
2 - brass hose fitting Dorman 73279 [$1.99 Pep Boys]
1 - brass 90* elbow Dorman 43030 [$1.99 Pep Boys]
1 - hard plastic 1/4" hose Dorman 47421 [$4.99 Pep Boys]
2 - rubber 90* elbow Dorman 47092 [$2.99 Pep Boys]
Optional:
1 - thread locker gel Permatex 27010 [$11.49 Pep Boys]

I couldn't quite fit my standard "t" handle tap in either of these spots so I used a socket wrench and a 12pt 3/8" socket to hold tap bit with no problems at all.
Also, have a good shop vac handy. You'll be cleaning up aluminum filings throughout the process.

Some other notes. This procedure is functionally undo-able. If, for instance, you wanted to remove your intercooler, you could just cap off these two fittings and you're back to how it was. If you wanted to go a step further, you could remove your fittings and use screw in plugs.


Last edited by turtleman on Wed Jan 26, 2011 7:46 pm; edited 3 times in total
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Installing Intercooler (IC)   Tue Jan 25, 2011 10:23 pm

This what 'ya lookin for?



Diagram Callouts

1 - MAP Sensor
2 - To Vacuum Brake Booster
3 - EVAP Canister Purge Solenoid Valve
4 - PCV Valve
5 - Throttle Actuator Control
6 - S/C Bypass Actuator
7 - S/C Bypass Solenoid
8 - Intake Manifold
9 - S/C Assembly
10 - BARO Sensor
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Installing Intercooler (IC)   Tue Jan 25, 2011 10:27 pm

naw, it's a diagram of the PCV path through the motor. It's like an inside view kindof.

EDIT: Here it is



Last edited by turtleman on Sun Jan 30, 2011 6:33 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Installing Intercooler (IC)   Tue Jan 25, 2011 11:05 pm

Damn...that sux. I know exactly what you mean though. I'll do some digging tomorrow at work.....
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Installing Intercooler (IC)   Wed Jan 26, 2011 7:41 pm

I edited my recent post so now it's pretty much a little write-up of what I did. It could be useful for anyone installing an intercooler.
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Installing Intercooler (IC)   Thu Feb 10, 2011 11:05 pm

Just purchased a phenolic inter-cooler core. see this thread:
http://rivperformance.editboard.com/t7998p15-phenolic-intercooler-core#125457

Would there be a down side to installing the core and NOT hooking it up to a FMHE and pump right away? I just dont have the extra cash around after the core and needing 4 new tires. I would like to at least get the core installed so it helps separate some of the heat from the blower and it would ease installation a lot when i do get the other parts.
In my mind it should be the same as running an I/C car without the pump running. Im not making full use of the core cooler but the car should still function fine and have cooler output right?


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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Installing Intercooler (IC)   Fri Feb 11, 2011 9:36 am

Shouldn't be a problem doing that. Most of the IC kits advertise the fact that the installation can be done in stages. I doubt you'll see any heat absorption, and of course you're blocking some air flow into the LIM (not a problem once you hook up the pump and HE - just increase boost).

_________________
'98 SC Riviera 268k miles 298 HP/370 TQ 0-60: 5.79s ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 4087 lb 20.1 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley AL104 plugs 180 t-stat FWI w/K&N 1.9:1 rockers OR pushrods LS6 valve springs SLP headers ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts MaxAir shocks Addco sway bars UMI bushings GM STB Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus SS lines Brembo slotted discs DHP tuned Aeroforce Hidden Hitch


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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Installing Intercooler (IC)   Fri Feb 11, 2011 12:40 pm

I agree. It'll probably be like using one of zzp's thick blower spacers and keep the blower from heat-soaking as quickly until it gets coolant through it. I'll probably end up doing it like that too. This is exciting that some more people are intercooling. I think this spring is gonna be a good one for the Riviera's out there.
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Installing Intercooler (IC)   Fri Feb 11, 2011 1:03 pm

Cool. Thats what i will do then. Now if only i could find some injectors and fuel rails...

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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Installing Intercooler (IC)   Fri Feb 11, 2011 1:08 pm

Mr.Riviera wrote:
Cool. Thats what i will do then. Now if only i could find some injectors and fuel rails...

Don't get anything but PRJ rails. my 2c
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Installing Intercooler (IC)   Fri Feb 11, 2011 1:23 pm

Whats wrong with the zzp mod rails

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