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 Write-Up: Installing Intercooler (IC)

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turtleman
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Installing Intercooler (IC)   Fri Feb 11, 2011 1:35 pm

Mr.Riviera wrote:
Whats wrong with the zzp mod rails
From the standpoint of fueling, their fine. What I don't like is you are confined to the vinyl supply and return lines forever (which I don't believe pass tech inspection if your track actually sticks you with that stuff) and you still have a line that needs to go over the blower which is very nice not to have. Although when I was making my response, I was really only thinking about aftermarket fuel rails that are out there, not so much modded stock rails. For the money, they get the job done. I think I was mostly trying to save you the mistake of getting some older used zzp logs or something non-dressed like I got. lol
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AA
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Installing Intercooler (IC)   Fri Feb 11, 2011 5:02 pm

I have the ZZP mod rails. I think they can be modified to accept AN fittings. For now, they're working okay with the OEM plastic lines.

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Mr.Riviera
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Installing Intercooler (IC)   Thu Feb 17, 2011 10:10 pm

Now that i have my S3 core i have a few more questions before i start ordering the rest of the I/C setup.

1. I am currently running a breather and dont really care if the pcv system doenst work like factory. Do i need to drill out my core to match the gen V or am i safe completely pulling the pcv valve and capping everything off so long as i have the breather.

2. I also do not intent to run coolant to the N* TB so will there be a leak if i just install the little O-rings and then use the I/C core to block the flow? Do i need to get a cap for the LIM or leave the o-ring off?

3. Last and most important...Is everyone running separate coolant bottles for the I/C or are you just installing a purge valve?
reason i ask is there isnt a lot of room under our hoods for another resov. I would ideally like to run a closed system with no reservoir. Problem i see with that is it would be hard to get the air out and when the fluid gets hot and expands where does the pressure go?

Thank you for the input thus far.

Matthew

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1996 with 244k miles, L324" FWI -> ported N* -> Ported Gen V w/3.0" Pulley, Stage 3 Phenolic I/C, ZZP FMHE, 1.84 RR, Headers and 3" pipe to mufflers, F-body brakes, and lowered on Eibachs.
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Installing Intercooler (IC)   Fri Feb 18, 2011 7:57 am

2. Sand the diameter of 2 dimes and silicone them into the 2 water passages. Workes great and costs $0.20
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Installing Intercooler (IC)   Fri Feb 18, 2011 10:36 am

Answer to #2......

If you simply plug up the coolant passages to the throttle body, you will restrict coolant flow to the rear head. This is what you do (to do it right). Pull that little cap (2 8mm bolts) off of the LIM (under the EGR tube) and this is what you see....


That "wall" is what blocks the coolant from flowing and forces it through the LIM, S/C, and TB. You want to remove this "wall" to allow the coolant to flow freely to the rear head. I'm not finished yet, as I have some filing to do, but you get the idea.....


Once you get that removed and smoothed, you can either tap and pipe plug the coolant passage holes on the LIM (from the top), or use another method.....

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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Installing Intercooler (IC)   Fri Feb 18, 2011 11:51 am

Scott is right about the optimal flow of coolant, though many have plugged without doing it and have had no issues.

I know this is about inter-coolers but, in case there is a series one person reading this:
SERIES ONE ONLY: Plugging the TB coolant ports will 100% block coolant flow through the middle LIM passage(the one the s2 doesn't have.) To correctly plug the ports for S1, the end cap must be removed, and a relief hold drilled into the TB gallery from bottom right to top left.

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turtleman
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Installing Intercooler (IC)   Fri Feb 18, 2011 1:24 pm

I need to do that coolant passage in my new LIM as well. Some people say there's no real evidence to suggest it's restrictive enough to be an issue but I'm gonna do it.

Matthew, is the LIM you'll use with the IC modified in any way besides the opening the s/c outlet area? If it isn't and you do nothing as far as drilling for the PCV channel, the PCV valve will be blocked off and the crankcase will be venting out your breather all the time. The benefit there is the engine won't be taking in any of those oily fumes at all and the intake and IC will stay pretty clean.

Your other option, while using a breather, would be drill the one hole in the LIM underneath the PCV valve area to allow the valve to work and let the engine pull in the crankcase vapors. In this case, while you're not in boost, fresh air will be sucked into the crankcase through the breather and then when you're in boost, crankcase vapors will be pushed out the breather and also continue to enter the intake through the PCV valve. The benefit there is crankcase pressure will always be ideal for managing oil-related conditions inside the crankcase.

Totally up to you
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Installing Intercooler (IC)   Fri Feb 18, 2011 1:30 pm

Matthew, on your second question, you can just throw the o-rings in there and put it together that way if you want but plugging those ports is better - no engine coolant touching your IC core housing and one less item of concern for future service.
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Mr.Riviera
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Installing Intercooler (IC)   Fri Feb 18, 2011 7:58 pm

Great info guys. thanks.
That still leave #3
Is everyone running separate coolant bottles for the I/C or are you just installing a purge valve?
reason i ask is there isnt a lot of room under our hoods for another resov. I would ideally like to run a closed system with no reservoir. Problem i see with that is it would be hard to get the air out and when the fluid gets hot and expands where does the pressure go?

Matthew

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1996 with 244k miles, L324" FWI -> ported N* -> Ported Gen V w/3.0" Pulley, Stage 3 Phenolic I/C, ZZP FMHE, 1.84 RR, Headers and 3" pipe to mufflers, F-body brakes, and lowered on Eibachs.
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Installing Intercooler (IC)   Sat Feb 19, 2011 6:57 am

#3. I have tees on the inlet and outlet of the front mount heat exchanger.

I ran 2 hoses up beside my driver headlight and than plugged them. You don't have to worry about expansion the hoses are pretty flexible and you leave an small air bubble at the top.
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Installing Intercooler (IC)   Sat Feb 19, 2011 7:49 am

#1. For a funtcional PCV drill manifold at the back and connect a hose between valve cover cap and throttle body. The connection must be between throttle plate and MAF so that the air is measured. On my northstar this port is correct.

You get a good idle and remove the moisture from the crankcase. With the 2.0 " intercooler you cap the port on the back of the gen 5 supercharger.
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Installing Intercooler (IC)   Sat Feb 19, 2011 8:31 am

Ok,thats all well and good but where is the series 1 IC huh!??
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Mr.Riviera
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Installing Intercooler (IC)   Sat Feb 19, 2011 10:05 am

that helps a bunch and probably what i will end up doing with my setup.

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1996 with 244k miles, L324" FWI -> ported N* -> Ported Gen V w/3.0" Pulley, Stage 3 Phenolic I/C, ZZP FMHE, 1.84 RR, Headers and 3" pipe to mufflers, F-body brakes, and lowered on Eibachs.
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Mr.Riviera
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Installing Intercooler (IC)   Thu Mar 10, 2011 6:24 pm

Which bolts should be used with a 2.02" I/C? ZZP sells them in 1.9" and 2.25" lengths. I'm leaning towards the shorter ones b/c i dont want a 1/4" of washers, but maybe 1.9 isnt enough for the core plus gaskets?


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1996 with 244k miles, L324" FWI -> ported N* -> Ported Gen V w/3.0" Pulley, Stage 3 Phenolic I/C, ZZP FMHE, 1.84 RR, Headers and 3" pipe to mufflers, F-body brakes, and lowered on Eibachs.
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turtleman
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Installing Intercooler (IC)   Fri Mar 11, 2011 7:56 pm

If it would help, I can post the length of the set I got from ZZP for a 2.25" GENV combo.
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Mr.Riviera
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Installing Intercooler (IC)   Fri Mar 11, 2011 8:59 pm

wouldn't hurt to have them as a reference in case i need to run out and pick some up

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1996 with 244k miles, L324" FWI -> ported N* -> Ported Gen V w/3.0" Pulley, Stage 3 Phenolic I/C, ZZP FMHE, 1.84 RR, Headers and 3" pipe to mufflers, F-body brakes, and lowered on Eibachs.
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Installing Intercooler (IC)   Sun Mar 13, 2011 8:28 pm



The 6 smaller bolts that don't have measurements are all the same as the 10cm one at the top left of the picture.
ZZP screwed up because that one 15cm at the top right is about 1/2" too long - not to mention why is that one a standard hex head..? I'm gonna email them about that.
If I put everything on with gaskets and all and just drop the bolts in without turning them at all, there's about 9/16" of stem at the top so that would be about the length of thread that makes it down into the LIM for this setup, not taking into account gasket compression.

hope that helps some

I wish somebody sold stainless steel flange bolts in all these lengths. I'd buy 'em for sure.
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Installing Intercooler (IC)   Thu Mar 24, 2011 5:40 pm

Mr.Riviera wrote:
Which bolts should be used with a 2.02" I/C? ZZP sells them in 1.9" and 2.25" lengths. I'm leaning towards the shorter ones b/c i dont want a 1/4" of washers, but maybe 1.9 isnt enough for the core plus gaskets?


This thread from clubgp contains the stock lengths of Gen 3 and 5 supercharger bolts

http://www.clubgp.com/newforum/tm.asp?m=3208563&appid=&p=&mpage=1&key=bolts&language=single&tmode=&smode=&s=&cookieCheck=486913413#3208563

I'm also offering bolts (not stainless) for my intercooler kits now. Note the Stainless bolts are not a rated bolt (grade).
http://www.3800pro.com/forum/sale/34886-phenolic-intercooler-gen-3-iii-gen-5-v-l67-l32-eaton-m90-stage-3-a.html

Gen 5 ZZP 2.25 bolt lengths. (hex head and socket head are used in Gen 5 kits)
1 M8 x 1.25 x 200mm
1 M8 x 1.25 x 180mm
1 M8 x 1.25 x 140mm
7 M8 x 1.25 x 100mm
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Installing Intercooler (IC)   Fri Apr 22, 2011 1:49 am

I am about 90% done with my I/C install. pictures will be up tomorrow afternoon is all goes well.

I am running into 2 snags though.
1. What are you guys doing the the Alt bracket? maybe i missed it somewhere in here but with the gen V i will have to grind down the area where the 10mm bolt goes and then it will only be held on with the side and bottom bolt. Will that be enough?

2. when i close the hood the light cover makes serious contact with my intake coupler. I have for now remove the cover and bulb and can get the hood to close carefully but im afraid with fill crack the housing on the first motor twitch.

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1996 with 244k miles, L324" FWI -> ported N* -> Ported Gen V w/3.0" Pulley, Stage 3 Phenolic I/C, ZZP FMHE, 1.84 RR, Headers and 3" pipe to mufflers, F-body brakes, and lowered on Eibachs.
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Installing Intercooler (IC)   Fri Apr 22, 2011 12:40 pm

Also, what belts are the S2 I/C guys using? I have the 3.2 pulley on and there is no way the belt will work. even with w smaller idler (would be going back to the stock size) wouldnt make enough of a difference.

HELP!?
Car cranks up fine right now with the s/c belt off but i want to get it running right ASAP.

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1996 with 244k miles, L324" FWI -> ported N* -> Ported Gen V w/3.0" Pulley, Stage 3 Phenolic I/C, ZZP FMHE, 1.84 RR, Headers and 3" pipe to mufflers, F-body brakes, and lowered on Eibachs.
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Installing Intercooler (IC)   Fri Apr 22, 2011 12:49 pm

teaser pics while i wait for an answer...
Parts to be installed:


Before:


After:


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1996 with 244k miles, L324" FWI -> ported N* -> Ported Gen V w/3.0" Pulley, Stage 3 Phenolic I/C, ZZP FMHE, 1.84 RR, Headers and 3" pipe to mufflers, F-body brakes, and lowered on Eibachs.
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Installing Intercooler (IC)   Fri Apr 22, 2011 3:30 pm

Looking at autozones belt selection i think i am going with 5060738 which is a 73.8" belt. Our stock belt is 72.05 part # 5060720.
I will be using the oversize 3.5" tensioner too so if its still a bit small a 3" tensioner should do the trick.

There is also Dayco belt 5060740 which is 74.02" ...

:crosses fingers and heads to AZ:

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1996 with 244k miles, L324" FWI -> ported N* -> Ported Gen V w/3.0" Pulley, Stage 3 Phenolic I/C, ZZP FMHE, 1.84 RR, Headers and 3" pipe to mufflers, F-body brakes, and lowered on Eibachs.
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Installing Intercooler (IC)   Fri Apr 22, 2011 5:24 pm

UPDATE:

It runs!!!!!

No place in town carries 5060738 so i was forced to try 5060740 which is really big. It will not work with w my 3.2 pulley so i put the 3.4 on and it barely has tension. I know im getting belt slip at WOT but it will have to do until i can order 5060738. Unless someone has another solution.

Need to get it tuned and i have a very small vac leak on the snout side. i either cracked the vac line that runs under the snout or have a seal pin hole. Not enough to cause any problems but i can hear it.

_________________
1996 with 244k miles, L324" FWI -> ported N* -> Ported Gen V w/3.0" Pulley, Stage 3 Phenolic I/C, ZZP FMHE, 1.84 RR, Headers and 3" pipe to mufflers, F-body brakes, and lowered on Eibachs.
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Installing Intercooler (IC)   Fri Apr 22, 2011 5:35 pm

I wish I could give you an answer but let me recommend what I'm going to do when I get there is just order like 8 belts around the best guess range and then try them and return the others.
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Installing Intercooler (IC)   Sat Apr 23, 2011 12:53 pm

Geting a p0134 code. O2 sensor 1 inactive. Car is running fineeven at wot. And the 02 volts are changing.
I put in a brand new denso sensor about a month ago so i dont think its bad. Maybe got a little coolant or gasket material in a cyl and its on the sensor? Ill check the wire for breaks and replace the sensor when i get home.
What else could cause this code? Fuel pressure problems?

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1996 with 244k miles, L324" FWI -> ported N* -> Ported Gen V w/3.0" Pulley, Stage 3 Phenolic I/C, ZZP FMHE, 1.84 RR, Headers and 3" pipe to mufflers, F-body brakes, and lowered on Eibachs.
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