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 Write-Up: Installing Intercooler (IC)

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deekster_caddy
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Installing Intercooler (IC)   Sun Apr 24, 2011 7:01 pm

Sounds like a broken wire.
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Mr.Riviera
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Installing Intercooler (IC)   Sun Apr 24, 2011 10:20 pm

scanner is showing the O2 is fluctuating between 400 and 450 mV. never hits any other number, even at WOT. Wires all apear fine and do not touch the headers or plug wires.
good news is i have no Kr in 90* FL heat, even after sitting in traffic.
Getting a new O2 sensor put on as well as the 3.2 with a new smaller belt later this week.
I will try to keep this topic updated.


Matthew

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1996 with 244k miles, L32 4" FWI -> ported N* -> Ported Gen V w/3.0" Pulley, Stage 3 Phenolic I/C, ZZP FMHE, 1.84 RR, Headers and 3" pipe to mufflers, F-body brakes, and lowered on Eibachs.
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Installing Intercooler (IC)   Mon Apr 25, 2011 6:50 pm

Put in my old O2 sensor and found out the area where i made the O2 extension was coming apart. No more O2 code.

I got a misfire code today. ended up being the wire even though they are less than a year old. Must have pinched it when putting the alternator on or something.

Replaced the belt with 5060735 and got the 3.2 pulley on. Its still a little bit looser than what i would like but i dont think dayco makes a 5060730 belt (but that would be perfect sized with my oversize tensioner)

All is well and let the tuning begin!!!!

Still need to buy an I/C pump and FMHE. I was thinking of getting the Bosch from ZZP and a frozen boost 101 since i know those will fit a riv.

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1996 with 244k miles, L32 4" FWI -> ported N* -> Ported Gen V w/3.0" Pulley, Stage 3 Phenolic I/C, ZZP FMHE, 1.84 RR, Headers and 3" pipe to mufflers, F-body brakes, and lowered on Eibachs.
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Installing Intercooler (IC)   Tue Apr 26, 2011 6:57 am

Frozen boost also offers the Bosch cobra style pump for $119.
http://www.frozenboost.com/product_info.php?products_id=1001

They have a nice looking mounting clamp also. I think you get it with the pump for $5 bucks.
http://www.frozenboost.com/product_info.php?cPath=212&products_id=712&osCsid=5a50c16e49b28c9913a36b4227865c38

If your not buying anything else from ZZP you can save on shipping.
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Mr.Riviera
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Installing Intercooler (IC)   Tue Apr 26, 2011 6:03 pm

i believe Wbody store sell the frozen boost FMHE. same pictures, price and size.
I am getting their coolant reservoir as well.
What's the verdict on their Ford Motorsports IC pump? it has less flow than the bosch, but does it maybe last longer?

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1996 with 244k miles, L32 4" FWI -> ported N* -> Ported Gen V w/3.0" Pulley, Stage 3 Phenolic I/C, ZZP FMHE, 1.84 RR, Headers and 3" pipe to mufflers, F-body brakes, and lowered on Eibachs.
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Installing Intercooler (IC)   Tue Apr 26, 2011 7:18 pm

I'm not certain, but ZZP, WBS and Frozen boost all look to be the exact same Bosch pump. ZZP and WBS remove the sticker from the manufacturer in there pictures The flow ratings are a little goofy but some are rated free flow and others are in the intercooler system.

•Bosch part #0 392 022 002 Ford
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Installing Intercooler (IC)   Sun Aug 07, 2011 2:22 pm

Update: for anyone with a 3.2 or 3.1 pulley on a 2" I/C use belt 5065730.

The Dayco 5060730 works PERFECT with my setup. The belt is off a 2002 Audi S4 btw. The belt i had originally used was a 735 series belt but i had a lot of slip with it.
I was seeing powdered belt material all over my engine, could hear it slip when cool out, and i was seeing spikes of boost.

Now i see boost steadily build up and hold at 10+psi (its 90° outside). Much better throttle feel and as soon as it gets cold out i should see some nice boost numbers.

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1996 with 244k miles, L32 4" FWI -> ported N* -> Ported Gen V w/3.0" Pulley, Stage 3 Phenolic I/C, ZZP FMHE, 1.84 RR, Headers and 3" pipe to mufflers, F-body brakes, and lowered on Eibachs.
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Installing Intercooler (IC)   Mon Aug 08, 2011 12:17 am

Mr.Riviera wrote:
Update: for anyone with a 3.2 or 3.1 pulley on a 2" I/C use belt 5065730.

The Dayco 5060730 works PERFECT with my setup. The belt is off a 2002 Audi S4 btw. The belt i had originally used was a 735 series belt but i had a lot of slip with it.
I was seeing powdered belt material all over my engine, could hear it slip when cool out, and i was seeing spikes of boost.

Now i see boost steadily build up and hold at 10+psi (its 90° outside). Much better throttle feel and as soon as it gets cold out i should see some nice boost numbers.

Good to know. What idler & tensioner pulley sizes do you have?
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Installing Intercooler (IC)   Mon Aug 08, 2011 1:17 am

i have the stock size idler and the 3.5" upgraded tensioner.

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1996 with 244k miles, L32 4" FWI -> ported N* -> Ported Gen V w/3.0" Pulley, Stage 3 Phenolic I/C, ZZP FMHE, 1.84 RR, Headers and 3" pipe to mufflers, F-body brakes, and lowered on Eibachs.
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Installing Intercooler (IC)   Sun Oct 02, 2011 3:44 pm

Some random intercooler problems and solutions I'm working with right now.


have my mockup top end

First - alternator support bracket solution - grab some 1/4" x 1" aluminum flat bar - Ace harware



The verticle piece is the one that lowers the original mouting point for the alternator brace down. I'm going to tap that bottom hole and tighten a bolt in from the back to use like a stud - easier than trying to get in nut in there during install/uninstall and stronger than torquing the bolt down into the aluminum bar.

The supports bracket and the added brackets. The second smaller one is just an extra support since the alternator brace has that threaded ear there to use.

and the MAP sensor bracket basically just gets screwed in from the bottom of the same holes that it would otherwise go on top of.
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Installing Intercooler (IC)   Sun Oct 02, 2011 3:58 pm

Problem with Aeromotive fuel rails & WBS/ZZP intercooler

The Aeromotive rails have brackets that are kind of like the PRJ rails. On each rail, one brack hooks up to the front of it and the other bracket is on the back. The brackets that attach outboard are not any conern but the inboard can cause clearance problems. Since I'm already running the rails, I took the questionable bracket off and brought it over to my mockup.

BACK



With the intercooler, the back bracket is fine. Non-intercooled, you can see why you need to grind about 1/4" off the one ear of the supercharger for the bracket and screw heads to clear. That goes for gen3 and gen5.

FRONT

Houston, we have a problem
That bracket fits without the intercooler. With the intercooler, the elbow portion of the bracket is in the intercooler's space.

If that middle part of the bracket happened closer to the LIM mount, it would be fine. There's clearnace on the rail side.


I don't see any reason I can't grind or cut into that area of the IC core for the bracket to set into. That's the plan for now but How do I do it so it looks nice..?
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Installing Intercooler (IC)   Mon Oct 03, 2011 9:34 am

Can you get your guy who cleaned up the SC block-off plate to do it? With a milling machine it would be really easy to just clamp it down flat and plunge in with an end-mill. (result is a half moon shape where your sharpie mark is.) Short of that, you could put an end-mill cutter in a drill-press, clamp the crap out of it, and plunge very slowly to get the same result. Just plunge the depth you need, use a 3 or 4 flute spiral end-mill cutter.

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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Installing Intercooler (IC)   Mon Mar 19, 2012 12:30 am

I'm getting to that point now. I just order 18ft of silicone hose and once I get that, I want to get this IC system up and running.

So you guys who installed the frozenboost 101 heat exchanger, a couple questions...
1 - did you just eliminate the two criss-cross support bars in front of the rad/condenser entirely?
2 - You must have cut off the bottom portion of the hood latch frame since the HE sits right there but then what did you all do with the hood latch frame then to support it? I beg pics!
3 - is there simply no way to mount the pump on the passenger side? It would simplify hose routing so much!
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PostSubject: short stack intercooler core   Fri Aug 10, 2012 11:08 am

What would I need to run the short stack intercooler? There is one in zzperformance for 299 i'm looking at
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Installing Intercooler (IC)   Fri Aug 10, 2012 11:43 am

To start, a set of fuel rails or logs that allow you to raise the blower up. I bought a pair of ZZP modified stock rails for about $130. I don't run an IC, but they really clean up the engine, and leave the option open if I ever want to.

You might need a longer SC belt. I'm sure there a few other small bits and pieces that don't come with the kit, like the mounting brackets for the heat exchanger.

Because you will be intercooling, you'll need a smaller pulley to make added boost (IC doesn't make power by itself). I would HIGHLY recommend a 3" downpipe or headers, and rockers or cam to let the engine breath - converting the extra boost into HP higher in the RPM band. Otherwise, you could end up with some very heavy low-end torque output, kind of like a diesel truck.

_________________
'98 SC Riviera • 268k miles • 298 HP/370 TQ • 0-60: 5.79s • ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 • 4087 lb • 20.1 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley • AL104 plugs • 180Ί t-stat • FWI w/K&N • 1.9:1 rockers • OR pushrods • LS6 valve springs • SLP headers • ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts • MaxAir shocks • Addco sway bars • UMI bushings • GM STB • Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s • F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus • SS lines • Brembo slotted discs • DHP tuned • Aeroforce • Hidden Hitch


'05 GTO • 49k miles • 0-60: 4.8s • 16.9 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Installing Intercooler (IC)   Fri Aug 10, 2012 2:49 pm

It's a fair bit of work to get an IC setup going, especially on a riv since there's no bolt in heat exchanger. That being said, it is very much worth the difference in cost to go with a full size. A short stack doesn't get you very far for the efforts IMO. It'll let you go down a couple tenths on the pulley assuming you're pretty much KR-free to start with, that's about it. Something like a downpipe and high ratio rocker combo will get you better results in power and without adding weight and complexity to the car. Sorry I digress.

Bottom line is you need a lot more than $299 for the core to get it all working and it's work. Unless you want to delete your AC condenser and buy another radiator to use for a heat exchanger like Eric did in the whipple riv, you will need a sawsall and preferably a grinder to mod the bumper for fitment. etc
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Installing Intercooler (IC)   Sat Aug 11, 2012 3:11 am

thanks turtleman and AA i think ill wait to later for it then
im def gonna go with those fuel rails your talkin about for later down the road thnx
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Installing Intercooler (IC)   Sat Aug 11, 2012 1:45 pm

The ZZP fuel rails are pretty cool, imo. A theoretical benefit is cooler fuel temps, because the fuel doesn't need to climb over the blower and absorb heat through the maze of tubes before it gets to injectors. This is a slight KR reducer, but no one has performed measurable tests to confirm. It's like a lot of things we do - we know it helps, just don't know exactly how much.

Another thing I like about the rails, you can more easily access the valve covers, or the front injectors, rockers, etc. independently from the rears. Only one rail needs to come off rather than both front and back as with the OEM rail.

Here's a link to the ZZP rails: http://rivperformance.editboard.com/t2290p15-fuel-rails

Note: the tube near the front fitting must be slightly bent to fit the Riviera - if you plan to use the stock lines.

_________________
'98 SC Riviera • 268k miles • 298 HP/370 TQ • 0-60: 5.79s • ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 • 4087 lb • 20.1 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley • AL104 plugs • 180Ί t-stat • FWI w/K&N • 1.9:1 rockers • OR pushrods • LS6 valve springs • SLP headers • ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts • MaxAir shocks • Addco sway bars • UMI bushings • GM STB • Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s • F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus • SS lines • Brembo slotted discs • DHP tuned • Aeroforce • Hidden Hitch


'05 GTO • 49k miles • 0-60: 4.8s • 16.9 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun
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PostSubject: Setting up intercooler?   Sun Sep 22, 2013 6:31 pm

So i am new to these cars and one of the first thing i would want to do is get a front mount intercooler for it, you guys know where i could find a whole kit and steps to install? Im not the car guy but im getting into it and its way cheaper to do things myself.

I have a 96 by the way.
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Installing Intercooler (IC)   Sun Dec 22, 2013 9:14 pm

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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Installing Intercooler (IC)   Sun May 18, 2014 6:38 pm

Let's talk exchangers...

I just got a ridiculously good deal on eBay. Zzp ss core, machined lim, shurflo pump, and pump wiring.
All I'm missing is the exchanger and lines to hook it up.

Since its the ss core, I want to get the biggest exchanger I can get away with so I can maximize efficiency. I don't have ac, so I was thinking about just putting an exchanger there.

Big questions are, can the exchanger be too big for the pump to keep up with?

And is a larger surface area but thinner core (24x18x1) better, or lesser surface area but thicker (24x8x2)?
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Installing Intercooler (IC)   Tue May 20, 2014 9:09 am

bump  on questions?
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Installing Intercooler (IC)   Tue May 20, 2014 9:53 am

I kinda like the idea of the Intense Heat Exchanger. It looks like a cleaner install with more surface area. If you're already missing your condenser, it would be perfect.

http://intense-racing.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=IR&Product_Code=GMH-IHE&Category_Code=3800_Induction

The ZZP exchanger that I have is wide and thick (no jokes please). I would assume that the Intense version probably has a more even distribution of heat. Although, ZZP's exchanger is a dual pass. Not exactly sure which one would work better, but I like the Intense.....my $.02
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Installing Intercooler (IC)   Tue May 20, 2014 9:59 am

Yeah, that definitely seems like a better option for me, if nothing else for ease of install.

http://www.votionspeed.com/servlet/the-517/Universal-Water-dsh-to-dsh-Air-Radiator-24x12x1/Detail

What about that one? Looks really similar, but is buying cheap radiators sketchy?
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Installing Intercooler (IC)   Tue May 20, 2014 10:41 am

A "cheap" Radiator is definitely something you want to stay away from. It's the same as buying cheap headers. Yeah, they'll work great for a little while, but they won't last as long as they should. I know nothing of the one you posted. I suppose you can do some research on it. It might be worth it. Who knows.
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