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BillBoost37
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PostSubject: Re: Fuel Rails   Wed Jun 25, 2008 1:59 pm

1998 Riv wrote:
*New version works with all intercoolers or without an intercooler. No need to remove the blower to install or remove the fuel rails.

**Not recommended for cars with TOG headers as the crossover gets too close to the fuel line. Pacesetters are OK though.

Where in the world do the rails pictured get close to the cross over? Looks like ZZP missed updating that part, IIRC their last set of rails had a hose under the TB.

I could see issues trying to get the fuel line to stretch across the top of the TB to the front connection and could also see issues with the rear line pushing back into the firewall and kinking. That's the reason I went to braided after installing PRJ rails. No kinking was a big weight off my mind.
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1998 Riv
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PostSubject: Re: Fuel Rails   Wed Jun 25, 2008 2:53 pm

Dunno, I just copied/pasted from ZZP site.
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T Riley
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PostSubject: Re: Fuel Rails   Thu Jun 26, 2008 1:47 am

AA wrote:


I think it might be possible to remove the blower without taking the rails off. Maybe there's a ported blower in the future.

cus the rail is held on by 4 bolts rolleyes pretty tough to remove razz
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BillBoost37
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PostSubject: Re: Fuel Rails   Thu Jun 26, 2008 6:59 am

98riviera98 wrote:
cus the rail is held on by 4 bolts rolleyes pretty tough to remove razz

It's more about disturbing the FI o-rings and possibly creating a vacuum leak or the need to replace the rings again. While the rings are low cost, if you are running stock injectors there is a chance to break them each tme you try to pull a ring. The bottom piece that holds them on is brittle.
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AA
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PostSubject: Re: Fuel Rails   Thu Jun 26, 2008 9:25 am

Quote :
The bottom piece that holds them on is brittle.

Yeah, I chipped one the first time I removed my injectors. I don't like taking them out if I don't need to.

_________________
'98 SC Riviera 268k miles 298 HP/370 TQ 0-60: 5.79s ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 4087 lb 20.1 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley AL104 plugs 180 t-stat FWI w/K&N 1.9:1 rockers OR pushrods LS6 valve springs SLP headers ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts MaxAir shocks Addco sway bars UMI bushings GM STB Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus SS lines Brembo slotted discs DHP tuned Aeroforce Hidden Hitch


'05 GTO 49k miles 0-60: 4.8s 16.9 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun
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dreww
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PostSubject: Re: Fuel Rails   Thu Jun 26, 2008 1:19 pm

AA wrote:
Quote :
The bottom piece that holds them on is brittle.

Yeah, I chipped one the first time I removed my injectors. I don't like taking them out if I don't need to.
i chipped 2 or 3 myself evil
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AA
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PostSubject: Re: Fuel Rails   Fri Jul 04, 2008 10:07 am

After installing the ZZP rails, I wasn't too impressed with the fit. I had to bend the front tube in order to get around the BBV, and same with the rear because of the STB bar. Also, the connector hose is made for use with an IC, so it's too long. I can understand that, though.

It's a better set-up than before, but I need to replace the now odd-looking plastic fuel lines with some braided SS. The way the stock lines are bent now, they look pretty strange.

_________________
'98 SC Riviera 268k miles 298 HP/370 TQ 0-60: 5.79s ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 4087 lb 20.1 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley AL104 plugs 180 t-stat FWI w/K&N 1.9:1 rockers OR pushrods LS6 valve springs SLP headers ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts MaxAir shocks Addco sway bars UMI bushings GM STB Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus SS lines Brembo slotted discs DHP tuned Aeroforce Hidden Hitch


'05 GTO 49k miles 0-60: 4.8s 16.9 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun
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dreww
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PostSubject: Re: Fuel Rails   Fri Jul 04, 2008 3:28 pm

So these wont work on a full intercooler setup? If not, I see no point in buying them.

does that mean the only other option is the twice as expensive rails like Bill has on his car?
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PostSubject: Re: Fuel Rails   Fri Jul 04, 2008 4:08 pm

This setup will not work on an IC setup. They have injector spacers available but I would watch for leaks (if it does leak hot engine + fuel is not good). The only way to do it right is to get their full logs, Intense logs, or PRJ logs. I chose the latter. The Riv has very little clearance with a full IC so spacers may not fit either...if you want to take a chance they wont leak.
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AA
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PostSubject: Re: Fuel Rails   Sat Jul 05, 2008 5:27 pm

I don't see why they can't work with an IC. Both ZZP and W-Body sell these modified rails exactly for this purpose. I can remove my blower while leaving these rails on - why couldn't I squeeze and IC in there?

_________________
'98 SC Riviera 268k miles 298 HP/370 TQ 0-60: 5.79s ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 4087 lb 20.1 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley AL104 plugs 180 t-stat FWI w/K&N 1.9:1 rockers OR pushrods LS6 valve springs SLP headers ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts MaxAir shocks Addco sway bars UMI bushings GM STB Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus SS lines Brembo slotted discs DHP tuned Aeroforce Hidden Hitch


'05 GTO 49k miles 0-60: 4.8s 16.9 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun
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http://www.cardomain.com/ride/657082/4
dreww
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PostSubject: Re: Fuel Rails   Mon Jul 07, 2008 12:11 pm

AA wrote:
I don't see why they can't work with an IC. Both ZZP and W-Body sell these modified rails exactly for this purpose. I can remove my blower while leaving these rails on - why couldn't I squeeze and IC in there?

this is what I was thinking. Does wolf know something we don't? Or did he actually try it himself and they didn't work?

wolf, got a link for those PRJ rails?
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BillBoost37
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PostSubject: Re: Fuel Rails   Mon Jul 07, 2008 1:58 pm

http://www.prjperformance.com/

I think Eric is getting at the hose going over the charger and how Paul had to cut his hood for a little more clearance on top. (at least I think I remember reading that) The PRJ rails have nothing over the top when an intercooler is on the engine, so space on top of the charger is saved.

Do it the way I did guys... keep your eyes open for someone selling them for say $100 or so off the original price.
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PostSubject: Re: Fuel Rails   Mon Jul 07, 2008 3:16 pm

The hose is only about 3/8" dia, and fits between the heat sink fins of the blower. If you are really concerned about clearance, get a longer hose and go around the blower.

_________________
'98 SC Riviera 268k miles 298 HP/370 TQ 0-60: 5.79s ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 4087 lb 20.1 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley AL104 plugs 180 t-stat FWI w/K&N 1.9:1 rockers OR pushrods LS6 valve springs SLP headers ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts MaxAir shocks Addco sway bars UMI bushings GM STB Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus SS lines Brembo slotted discs DHP tuned Aeroforce Hidden Hitch


'05 GTO 49k miles 0-60: 4.8s 16.9 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun
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ewolfe0050
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PostSubject: Re: Fuel Rails   Mon Jul 07, 2008 4:13 pm

Quote :
I think Eric is getting at the hose going over the charger and how Paul had to cut his hood for a little more clearance on top.

Exactly.. I had to cut the hood I a couple spots for a little for spacing. The Rivs hood dosen't give you the clearance like the GTPs. If you have to squish the upper line against the hood... resulting in chaffing.... resulting in a hole in the fuel line... resulting in fire frown

Youo could possibly go around the blower but from the snout side. Don't rest it by the headers!
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lyonsperformance
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PostSubject: Fuel Rails   Wed Aug 13, 2008 9:56 am

any benifit to buying upgraded fuel rails? If you only have a slightly modified motor?

if so i was thinking of buying these more for a cleaner "built motor" look.

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=AEI%2D14131&N=700+4294924744+4294908256+4294908237+4294925239+115&autoview=sku
tell me what ya think! scratch
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PostSubject: Re: Fuel Rails   Wed Aug 13, 2008 10:01 am

Nice find. Wish I'd seen those a month ago! I think thems some affordable fuel rails.

The benefit is that the fuel doesn't cross over the blower, so in theory stays slightly cooler, but that's only hypothetical. They look good, though!

_________________
'98 SC Riviera 268k miles 298 HP/370 TQ 0-60: 5.79s ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 4087 lb 20.1 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley AL104 plugs 180 t-stat FWI w/K&N 1.9:1 rockers OR pushrods LS6 valve springs SLP headers ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts MaxAir shocks Addco sway bars UMI bushings GM STB Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus SS lines Brembo slotted discs DHP tuned Aeroforce Hidden Hitch


'05 GTO 49k miles 0-60: 4.8s 16.9 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun
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http://www.cardomain.com/ride/657082/4
Chicken
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PostSubject: Re: Fuel Rails   Wed Aug 13, 2008 10:15 am

On a scale of 1 - 10, whats the difficulty in installing these yourself?
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AA
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PostSubject: Re: Fuel Rails   Wed Aug 13, 2008 10:19 am

About a 6, but only because of the custom hoses and fittings. See this link:

http://rivperformance.editboard.com/series-ii-engine-transmission-f4/write-up-ss-braided-fuel-lines-t3086.htm

_________________
'98 SC Riviera 268k miles 298 HP/370 TQ 0-60: 5.79s ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 4087 lb 20.1 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley AL104 plugs 180 t-stat FWI w/K&N 1.9:1 rockers OR pushrods LS6 valve springs SLP headers ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts MaxAir shocks Addco sway bars UMI bushings GM STB Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus SS lines Brembo slotted discs DHP tuned Aeroforce Hidden Hitch


'05 GTO 49k miles 0-60: 4.8s 16.9 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun
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http://www.cardomain.com/ride/657082/4
BillBoost37
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PostSubject: Re: Fuel Rails   Tue Aug 19, 2008 1:21 pm

After seeing where your hoses turn to metal, it should be easier than on the bonne. Hardest part of making the fuel lines was getting the braid inside the ends. A little finesse and it's a snap. I had it nearly perfected by the time I was done. pirate
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PostSubject: Re: Fuel Rails   Tue Aug 19, 2008 2:56 pm

Turbocharged400sbc wrote:



Dude, looks like you just made good use of a real fancy pipe.
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captshiner
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PostSubject: Re: Fuel Rails   Tue Aug 19, 2008 3:14 pm

Is that a recent pic? I was wondering because it's like 80+degrees here in OH and I'm assuming the "Il" in your info. means Illinois. And you are dressed pretty warm.
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PostSubject: Re: Fuel Rails   Fri Aug 29, 2008 1:20 am

AA wrote:
Nice find. Wish I'd seen those a month ago! I think thems some affordable fuel rails.

The benefit is that the fuel doesn't cross over the blower, so in theory stays slightly cooler, but that's only hypothetical. They look good, though!

so you think these will work fine for our rivs? I might order some this weekend and maybe some 42.5's to go in them.
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PostSubject: Re: Fuel Rails   Fri Aug 29, 2008 9:15 am

I don't know, but it appears that way. I'm guessing if they bolt on, they'll work. Only fear is that something would be in the way. Try it!

_________________
'98 SC Riviera 268k miles 298 HP/370 TQ 0-60: 5.79s ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 4087 lb 20.1 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley AL104 plugs 180 t-stat FWI w/K&N 1.9:1 rockers OR pushrods LS6 valve springs SLP headers ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts MaxAir shocks Addco sway bars UMI bushings GM STB Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus SS lines Brembo slotted discs DHP tuned Aeroforce Hidden Hitch


'05 GTO 49k miles 0-60: 4.8s 16.9 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun
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http://www.cardomain.com/ride/657082/4
dreww
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PostSubject: Re: Fuel Rails   Thu Sep 04, 2008 2:40 am

AA wrote:
I don't know, but it appears that way. I'm guessing if they bolt on, they'll work. Only fear is that something would be in the way. Try it!

I just ordered the injectors instead. I might try these rails out, but I still need to nit pick and buy all the other parts to complete a "fuel rail kit". I will probably end up just forking up $400+ for the PRJ kit.
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PostSubject: Re: Fuel Rails   Wed Sep 10, 2008 5:19 pm

ewolfe - Does anyone make dress up valve covers for the L67? I thought ZZP did but I didn't see them on their site.

I'm new to this fuel injection stuff. Looking at BillBoost37's thread, it appears the fuel rails aren't included in his parts list like I initially thought they were. What brand do you recommend, what are the issues with fuel rails?

How can I tell if a fitting comes with an o-ring or not?

AA - O.K. if you think the valve cover gaskets are good I'm going to leave them for now.

If the temporary setup is the best you've found I can also worry about that later.

Now that I think of it all this stuff will have to come apart to do cam and intercooler, maybe I should just build up a big pile of performance parts and have it all done at once (somebody got a new client today wink )

Would you say o-rings are a pressing priority?

Either way, let's keep talking about it so I know what to get.
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