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oldsman105
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PostSubject: Re: Shift Kit Questions   Mon Dec 17, 2007 2:07 pm

I stand corrected read
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palermocorey90
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PostSubject: Shift Kit Questions   Fri Feb 01, 2008 2:01 pm

what do shift kits do? Do they help the acceleration or what ? any help would be great. on a scale 1-5 (5 hardest) what would installing a shift kit be?
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Mr.Riviera
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PostSubject: Re: Shift Kit Questions   Fri Feb 01, 2008 6:58 pm

on a 95 i think the trans has to be completely removed to inst. a shift kit so.. 10/5 on your difficulty scale lol .
but if you did inst one, you would have faster shifts which in a way makes the car a little bit faster/more responsive, but they can also lengthen the life on some components in the tranny like the clutch, at the increased risk of hard part failure (per zzp site)

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Jason
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PostSubject: Re: Shift Kit Questions   Fri Feb 01, 2008 7:18 pm

I haven't seen any really nice shift kits for the 4t60e. Look at the zzp shift kit. It isn't that great. A lot of people use too many shims because they want neck snapping shifts... not a good idea

The transgo shift kit is pretty basic too (they don't have a "reprogramming kit" out) but it has more mods than the zzp shift kit . It will save worn valve bodies, prevent no hot lock-up and shudder, 2nd clutch burnup & delayed 3rd cold.

per their site: Corrects: Light throttle converter shudder. Contains hardened pins and “Tuff” accumulator piston seals to reduce clutch failure due to pin and seal wear, 3rd clutch seal is self expanding. Includes PWM valve, lock-up regulator valve & bushings.

I don't know if the trans has to be removed completely for it to be done, but valve body modifications require you to be very precise. Based on the 4L60 kit, I would rate it a 5/5
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PostSubject: Re: Shift Kit Questions   Fri Feb 01, 2008 7:58 pm

ok screw that then thanks for the help guys
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PostSubject: Re: Shift Kit Questions   Mon Feb 04, 2008 9:27 am

The trans does have to come out on a 4T60. However I've heard the Trango Jr. kit is very detailed and makes a heck of a difference.
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PostSubject: Re: Shift Kit Questions   Wed Apr 16, 2008 12:42 pm

Just figured I'd update here.
I just put in the ZZP shift kit.
I put it into the new trans that's not in my car yet so that made it even easier. Piece of cake to install. This trans is set up like GM wanted you to put this type of shift kit in. Too bad most other transmissions aren't so easy.

I'll report back once the trans is in the car and I can drive it.
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PostSubject: Re: Shift Kit Questions   Wed Apr 16, 2008 11:13 pm

im making my shift kit for about 5 bucks. YES that does include the 2-3 shift spring for the 1-2 spot (GM for like 3-4 bucks) and than the polyurethane pieces are like 2 bucks, MENARDS FTW
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AA
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PostSubject: Re: Shift Kit Questions   Thu Apr 17, 2008 8:32 am

I had my INTENSE shift kit removed when the new trans was rebuilt. A little firming of the shift pressure settings and things are like they used to be.

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'98 SC Riviera • 268k miles • 298 HP/370 TQ • 0-60: 5.79s • ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 • 4087 lb • 20.1 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
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urbsnspices
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PostSubject: Re: Shift Kit Questions   Thu Apr 17, 2008 9:57 am

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PostSubject: Shift Kit Info   Sat Mar 20, 2010 1:26 am

Got the mod bug and looking into everything I can.

I have seen quite a few vendors offering shift kits for ours cars.

ZZP, WBody store, Intense, Thrasher that I've found so far.

My question (even after searching on the forum) is who offers the best one?

Anyone else have one and can share their thoughts on it?

Shedding any light on these kits would be great.

One of these is possibly in my future since I have to flush the tranny anyway. Might as well do it while I have the pan down.

Thanks!
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PostSubject: Re: Shift Kit Questions   Sat Mar 20, 2010 9:08 am

They're all the same thing, just a few spacers and springs that mechanically firm the the shifts. They do come in varying degrees of "firmness".

If you ever decide to tune the PCM, you can achieve the same thing by programming varying shift pressures, and you can have it be more firm under throttle, less jerky when driving easy. For this reason, I had them take my shift kit out when my transmission was rebuilt. I now have no need for it.

_________________
'98 SC Riviera • 268k miles • 298 HP/370 TQ • 0-60: 5.79s • ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 • 4087 lb • 20.1 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley • AL104 plugs • 180º t-stat • FWI w/K&N • 1.9:1 rockers • OR pushrods • LS6 valve springs • SLP headers • ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts • MaxAir shocks • Addco sway bars • UMI bushings • GM STB • Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s • F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus • SS lines • Brembo slotted discs • DHP tuned • Aeroforce • Hidden Hitch


'05 GTO • 49k miles • 0-60: 4.8s • 16.9 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun
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Abaddon
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PostSubject: Re: Shift Kit Questions   Sat Mar 20, 2010 9:52 am

AA wrote:
They're all the same thing, just a few spacers and springs that mechanically firm the the shifts. They do come in varying degrees of "firmness".

If you ever decide to tune the PCM, you can achieve the same thing by programming varying shift pressures, and you can have it be more firm under throttle, less jerky when driving easy. For this reason, I had them take my shift kit out when my transmission was rebuilt. I now have no need for it.

agree I would wait until you tune the PCM. That way there is no need to change anything. Like AA said, the manual shift will shift hard under ALL conditions. I happened to adjust my TCC solenoid when I had my trans out, which has the same effect as tuning the PCM. It drives smooth under normal conditions and firms up under heavy load.
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PostSubject: Re: Shift Kit Questions   Sat Mar 20, 2010 10:28 am

Nobody mentioned that the valve body isn't under the bottom pan where your filter is located.
The valve body, and where you would install the shift kit, is under the vertical cover on the left side of the trans.
Takes many more man hours to install a shift kit in these cars than your thinking.
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deekster_caddy
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PostSubject: Re: Shift Kit Questions   Sat Mar 20, 2010 11:38 am

Rickw wrote:
Nobody mentioned that the valve body isn't under the bottom pan where your filter is located.
The valve body, and where you would install the shift kit, is under the vertical cover on the left side of the trans.
Takes many more man hours to install a shift kit in these cars than your thinking.

Most "shift kits" for these cars do not involve the valve body at all. They are just replacing a spring/spacer combo on a pressure regulator that can be reached from a pan drop.
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PostSubject: Re: Shift Kit Questions   Sat Mar 20, 2010 4:13 pm

thumbsup to deekster
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PostSubject: Re: Shift Kit Questions   Sat Mar 20, 2010 11:25 pm

AA wrote:
They're all the same thing, just a few spacers and springs that mechanically firm the the shifts. They do come in varying degrees of "firmness".

If you ever decide to tune the PCM, you can achieve the same thing by programming varying shift pressures, and you can have it be more firm under throttle, less jerky when driving easy. For this reason, I had them take my shift kit out when my transmission was rebuilt. I now have no need for it.

Hmm, I was never really wanting to get into tuning the PCM. I suck at electronics and I'd probably also have to get ahold of a tuner to do it. Not sure the benefits outweigh the price of the tuner or potential of messing up other things in the PCM. Something I have to think about I guess.

Abaddon wrote:

agree I would wait until you tune the PCM. That way there is no need to change anything. Like AA said, the manual shift will shift hard under ALL conditions. I happened to adjust my TCC solenoid when I had my trans out, which has the same effect as tuning the PCM. It drives smooth under normal conditions and firms up under heavy load.

TCC solenoid? That is an internal part that can only be reached when the transmission is out, correct? I really don't feel like pulling the tranny so if that is the case the PCM tune just got bumped up a notch. smile

deekster_caddy wrote:

Most "shift kits" for these cars do not involve the valve body at all. They are just replacing a spring/spacer combo on a pressure regulator that can be reached from a pan drop.

That is what I though too from what I read. I think if that were the case nobody would do it unless the tranny was out.

Ok so in other words if I do decide to go this route, no one kit is better or easier than another? Thanks guys.
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PostSubject: Re: Shift Kit Questions   Sun Mar 21, 2010 1:11 am

Yes TCC requires the side cover to come off....there is a write-up on the site with pics I took when I did it. I needed to replace the solenoid because it was faulty. I just adjusted the screw on it to increase the pressures........

Good idea on the PCM tune! Kill two birds with one stone shoot
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PostSubject: Re: Shift Kit Questions   Sun Mar 21, 2010 10:45 am

Is there any advantage/disadvantage to electronically adjusting the transmission opposed to the mechanical option or vice versa?

What PCM tuner do you recommend for this?
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PostSubject: Re: Shift Kit Questions   Sun Mar 21, 2010 3:58 pm

The only tuning software available that is still in business that cover our cars is HPTuners.
DHP was available and still is used, but the company stopped producing product.
Used packages for either are available now and then on some of the other 3800 sites.
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PostSubject: Re: Shift Kit Questions   Sun Mar 21, 2010 5:21 pm

VJD2 wrote:
Is there any advantage/disadvantage to electronically adjusting the transmission opposed to the mechanical option or vice versa?
The advantage with tuning is that you have precise control over shift firmness as load and RPM increase - usually firmer as you push the gas. So you can have gentle shifts when driving easy, and hard shifts when into the throttle more. You can also fine tune it +/- 1% if you decide it's not exactly what you want.

When you install a mechanical shift kit, you only get one shot - don't like it, take it back out and go back to stock, or try another kit. And of course, dropping the pan is more difficult (imo) than flashing the PCM (takes only about 60 secs after programming).

Advantage to shift kit: it's cheaper and requires no computer.

_________________
'98 SC Riviera • 268k miles • 298 HP/370 TQ • 0-60: 5.79s • ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 • 4087 lb • 20.1 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley • AL104 plugs • 180º t-stat • FWI w/K&N • 1.9:1 rockers • OR pushrods • LS6 valve springs • SLP headers • ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts • MaxAir shocks • Addco sway bars • UMI bushings • GM STB • Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s • F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus • SS lines • Brembo slotted discs • DHP tuned • Aeroforce • Hidden Hitch


'05 GTO • 49k miles • 0-60: 4.8s • 16.9 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun
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KillaKeninaRiv
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PostSubject: Re: Shift Kit Questions   Sun Mar 21, 2010 5:54 pm

Better question is: Does anyone on the boards themselves do PCM tuning? And if so, how much will it set me back? I wanna go fast!
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PostSubject: Re: Shift Kit Questions   Mon Mar 22, 2010 2:57 am

[quote="AA"]They're all the same thing, just a few spacers and springs that mechanically firm the the shifts. They do come in varying degrees of "firmness".

There is very many differnt kind of shift kits.. fist of all dont get zzps shift kit may be cheap! but wont be as suitable for your vehicle if your line pressure isnt to the right psi and also the spacers are equavelent in size wich isnt good because you want a harder shift from 2nd to 3rd then from 1st to 2nd... also most of these shift kitts you find are just cheap plastic shims.. the best bang for your buck is a thrasher shift kit wich will supply you with in american made trans filter an metal spacers (compared to plastic from leading brands) an theres low mild an hard shift spacers depending on modds just remeber dont go to hard may see trans chain snap... thers also new springs seals an actuator seal thumbsup

my oppinon is that just a pcm flash is not going to give you that much more of a shift firmness maybe a little but if you want head snapping shiftts get a shift kit : 3gears
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PostSubject: Re: Shift Kit Questions   Mon Mar 22, 2010 6:54 am

KillaKeninaRiv wrote:
Better question is: Does anyone on the boards themselves do PCM tuning? And if so, how much will it set me back? I wanna go fast!
http://rivperformance.editboard.com/series-ii-scans-tuning-pcm-f5/pcm-tuning-service-t6828.htm

ericde wrote:
There is very many differnt kind of shift kits.. fist of all dont get zzps shift kit may be cheap!
I think there are 3 levels of firmness, no middle ground between each level. If "level 1" feels too light, and "level 2" too heavy, there is no "level 1 1/2". What's wrong with ZZP shift kits? Have they been known to fail or otherwise cause problems?

Quote :
but wont be as suitable for your vehicle if your line pressure isnt to the right psi and also the spacers are equavelent in size wich isnt good because you want a harder shift from 2nd to 3rd then from 1st to 2nd...
You adjust line pressures by tuning - through a PCM flash.

Quote :
also most of these shift kitts you find are just cheap plastic shims.. the best bang for your buck is a thrasher shift kit wich will supply you with in american made trans filter an metal spacers (compared to plastic from leading brands)
Hasn't Thrasher been out of business for like 5 years?

Quote :
my oppinon is that just a pcm flash is not going to give you that much more of a shift firmness maybe a little but if you want head snapping shiftts get a shift kit
PCM flash is capable of giving much more shift firmness exactly where you need it, and less where you don't, at the same time. This is because you can alter the level of TM (torque management), delivering more torque during shifts, which shift kits can't do. And if you decide it's too much (you can command a LOT of firmness with tuning), just make a slight change and back off the pressures and TM a little. With a shift kit, you must remove the kit and try a new one (spend another $120 and hope it works).

_________________
'98 SC Riviera • 268k miles • 298 HP/370 TQ • 0-60: 5.79s • ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 • 4087 lb • 20.1 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley • AL104 plugs • 180º t-stat • FWI w/K&N • 1.9:1 rockers • OR pushrods • LS6 valve springs • SLP headers • ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts • MaxAir shocks • Addco sway bars • UMI bushings • GM STB • Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s • F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus • SS lines • Brembo slotted discs • DHP tuned • Aeroforce • Hidden Hitch


'05 GTO • 49k miles • 0-60: 4.8s • 16.9 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun
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PostSubject: Re: Shift Kit Questions   Mon Mar 22, 2010 10:47 am

AA wrote:

The advantage with tuning is that you have precise control over shift firmness as load and RPM increase - usually firmer as you push the gas. So you can have gentle shifts when driving easy, and hard shifts when into the throttle more. You can also fine tune it +/- 1% if you decide it's not exactly what you want.

When you install a mechanical shift kit, you only get one shot - don't like it, take it back out and go back to stock, or try another kit. And of course, dropping the pan is more difficult (imo) than flashing the PCM (takes only about 60 secs after programming).

Advantage to shift kit: it's cheaper and requires no computer.

Great, thanks for clearing that up. I like the idea of having the soft shift during normal driving and hard shift during spirited driving. I guess tuning is the best way to go. I can have other things messed with based on my mods to take advantage of them.
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