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 Write-Up: F-Body Brake Mod

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AA
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: F-Body Brake Mod   Tue Jun 10, 2008 1:17 am

I was cruising the other day and tapped the brakes a bit:


_________________
'98 SC Riviera 281k miles 298 HP/370 TQ 0-60: 5.79s ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 4087 lb 20.1 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley AL104 plugs 180 t-stat FWI w/K&N 1.9:1 rockers OR pushrods LS6 valve springs SLP headers ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts MaxAir shocks Addco sway bars UMI bushings GM STB Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus SS lines Brembo slotted discs DHP tuned Aeroforce Hidden Hitch

^^^ SOLD ^^^ frown

'05 GTO 85k miles 0-60: 4.8s 16.9 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun


'70 Olds Ninety-Eight Holiday Coupe 116k miles 455 Rocket V8
Because cool


'95 Celica 152k miles 0-60: yes
Because free


Last edited by AA on Tue Jun 10, 2008 12:44 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: F-Body Brake Mod   Tue Jun 10, 2008 1:53 am

Awesome vid! That thing really slows... i might really have to look into this mod.
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turtleman
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: F-Body Brake Mod   Wed Jun 11, 2008 12:44 am

oldsman105 wrote:
I will be ordering 2003 park avenue rear brake calipers ( should allow a 11.7" rotor to fit ) And see if the GP GXP rear rotors will fit under them (they are vented) .
Does the 03 pa have vented rear rotors?

It's been a bit but I have not been in need of brakes until recently. I Just got the other f body caliper and I now have to paint it like the first one. (30min of taping and days of painting / drying) I'm pretty OCD about it. I've ordered the sleeves and I'll be getting raybestos rotors and raybestos QS ceramic pads through work as well as the banjo bolts.

By the way I just recently did the rears. I replaced the pads, rotors, and all hardware. When you get the hardware kit, let me tell you, they're not screwin around. They give you parts you wouldn't have known come off the caliper. Got ceramic pads and the plain-jane rotors. Raybestos makes the hardware / bolt kits.
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PostSubject: will this fit? F-Body Rotors & Pads   Sun Jun 22, 2008 6:44 pm

LINK

i seen on youtube someone had a video of the riv slowing down and it captioned " camero brakes "
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AA
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: F-Body Brake Mod   Sun Jun 22, 2008 6:51 pm

The rotors will fit, but the pads require some modification. That "deal" seems pricey. I think you could do better. My EBC slotted rotors were $180, same Hawk HPS pads were $80.

_________________
'98 SC Riviera 281k miles 298 HP/370 TQ 0-60: 5.79s ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 4087 lb 20.1 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley AL104 plugs 180 t-stat FWI w/K&N 1.9:1 rockers OR pushrods LS6 valve springs SLP headers ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts MaxAir shocks Addco sway bars UMI bushings GM STB Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus SS lines Brembo slotted discs DHP tuned Aeroforce Hidden Hitch

^^^ SOLD ^^^ frown

'05 GTO 85k miles 0-60: 4.8s 16.9 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun


'70 Olds Ninety-Eight Holiday Coupe 116k miles 455 Rocket V8
Because cool


'95 Celica 152k miles 0-60: yes
Because free
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AA
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: F-Body Brake Mod   Sat Sep 06, 2008 1:56 pm

Thought I'd give an update. I've probably 10k miles on the new brakes. The car still stops beautifully. The calipers do get dirty every few weeks, but painting them yellow really helps me to notice. Using a little spray degreaser and a hose, they look brand new. Paint has not chipped or peeled away so far.

I thought with the slotted rotors and HPS composite compound, my wheels would get caked in dust, but actually these are as clean or cleaner than my drilled disks and ceramic pad combo.

As mentioned, these rotors were always noisy, but in a good way. No squeals or other bad sounds, only the nice "zi-i-i-i-ing" whenever I hit'em hard. For the first time, ever, I'm actually satisfied with the braking on this car.

_________________
'98 SC Riviera 281k miles 298 HP/370 TQ 0-60: 5.79s ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 4087 lb 20.1 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley AL104 plugs 180 t-stat FWI w/K&N 1.9:1 rockers OR pushrods LS6 valve springs SLP headers ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts MaxAir shocks Addco sway bars UMI bushings GM STB Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus SS lines Brembo slotted discs DHP tuned Aeroforce Hidden Hitch

^^^ SOLD ^^^ frown

'05 GTO 85k miles 0-60: 4.8s 16.9 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun


'70 Olds Ninety-Eight Holiday Coupe 116k miles 455 Rocket V8
Because cool


'95 Celica 152k miles 0-60: yes
Because free
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http://www.cardomain.com/ride/657082/4
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: F-Body Brake Mod   Sat Sep 06, 2008 3:02 pm

Good to hear

I'm not far from doing this. I just have to pick up the banjo bolts from W body store since they sell them seperately now. I'm not getting braided lines yet though.
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: F-Body Brake Mod   Sat Sep 06, 2008 3:07 pm

I want to do this but One step at a time
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AA
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: F-Body Brake Mod   Sun Sep 07, 2008 6:23 pm

Oh, and I posted a few pages back that my SS lines rubbed the tires when turning hard, and how the caliper bolts became loose. So far, the zip ties have held up fine, keeping the lines away from the wheels, and those bolts never loosed up again after I tightened them the 2nd time.

_________________
'98 SC Riviera 281k miles 298 HP/370 TQ 0-60: 5.79s ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 4087 lb 20.1 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley AL104 plugs 180 t-stat FWI w/K&N 1.9:1 rockers OR pushrods LS6 valve springs SLP headers ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts MaxAir shocks Addco sway bars UMI bushings GM STB Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus SS lines Brembo slotted discs DHP tuned Aeroforce Hidden Hitch

^^^ SOLD ^^^ frown

'05 GTO 85k miles 0-60: 4.8s 16.9 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun


'70 Olds Ninety-Eight Holiday Coupe 116k miles 455 Rocket V8
Because cool


'95 Celica 152k miles 0-60: yes
Because free
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http://www.cardomain.com/ride/657082/4
AA
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: F-Body Brake Mod   Thu Oct 16, 2008 6:12 pm

Well, it's been 6 months (~15,000 miles) and the brakes are holding up pretty well. I get a very slight judder during a light/medium stop at cruising speed, but as I stop harder, it goes away. It's almost not noticeable 90% of the time; not sure if it's actual run-out or if I need to re-bed the pads. Not worried about it too much right now.

This morning I was following a Honda Accord on the expressway, doing 105-110 in the left lane, when some jackass darts between us going 75 mph. This could have been a near catastrophic event with stock brakes, but I slowed down in about 3-4 secs, no problem at all.

I don't speed like this all the time, but when I do, it's a nice feeling to be able to stop so quickly. It seems the combination I chose tends to work better the faster I'm moving. At slower speeds, not really an advantage, but up top these things really impress.

_________________
'98 SC Riviera 281k miles 298 HP/370 TQ 0-60: 5.79s ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 4087 lb 20.1 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley AL104 plugs 180 t-stat FWI w/K&N 1.9:1 rockers OR pushrods LS6 valve springs SLP headers ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts MaxAir shocks Addco sway bars UMI bushings GM STB Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus SS lines Brembo slotted discs DHP tuned Aeroforce Hidden Hitch

^^^ SOLD ^^^ frown

'05 GTO 85k miles 0-60: 4.8s 16.9 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun


'70 Olds Ninety-Eight Holiday Coupe 116k miles 455 Rocket V8
Because cool


'95 Celica 152k miles 0-60: yes
Because free
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http://www.cardomain.com/ride/657082/4
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: F-Body Brake Mod   Thu Oct 16, 2008 8:38 pm

Just finished reading all 11 pages and have a couple of questions. Took notes but still missing some info.
1) What models and years "F" body calipers work other than 98-02 SS Camaro? and do you need the "F" body brackets also for a 98 Riv.?
2) Where do you get the McMaster insert bushings and what is the p/n?
3) Where did Erik buy the SS line kit from and what model/years does it fit.
Has anyone figured out a Mod for the rears. I agree they need more stopping power. Could also look into changing the proportioning valve's or go with an adjustable one.
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Mr.Riviera
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: F-Body Brake Mod   Thu Oct 16, 2008 9:12 pm

1.98-02 f-body includes the camaro and firebird's with the LS1 engine. you will need the bracket too. the corvette (97+ LS1) might work too, but IDK.
2. zzp's site has another write up with the part # for the bushing's.
3. and they also carry SS lines for the boneville's and those should fit the riv as well.
no idea on the rear brakes, but i think the limiting factor is the pads/rotors, not the line pressure.

_________________
1996 with 254k miles, L324" FWI -> ported N* -> Ported Gen V w/3.0" Pulley, Stage 3 Phenolic I/C, ZZP FMHE, 1.84 RR, Headers and 3" pipe to mufflers, F-body brakes, and lowered on Eibachs. -RIP
AMG C400 White on black -daily
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AA
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: F-Body Brake Mod   Fri Oct 17, 2008 8:43 am

1. These calipers/pads were used on Z28 camaros as well. Very common. I've even seen them on some Chevy/GMC SUVs.

2. Order direct: http://www.mcmaster.com/

3.Eric had his custom made. I bought mine from ZZP - request the extra long ones. They make a set for the rear as well.

4) Having dual reservoirs, I wasn't aware we had a proportioning valve.

_________________
'98 SC Riviera 281k miles 298 HP/370 TQ 0-60: 5.79s ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 4087 lb 20.1 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley AL104 plugs 180 t-stat FWI w/K&N 1.9:1 rockers OR pushrods LS6 valve springs SLP headers ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts MaxAir shocks Addco sway bars UMI bushings GM STB Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus SS lines Brembo slotted discs DHP tuned Aeroforce Hidden Hitch

^^^ SOLD ^^^ frown

'05 GTO 85k miles 0-60: 4.8s 16.9 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun


'70 Olds Ninety-Eight Holiday Coupe 116k miles 455 Rocket V8
Because cool


'95 Celica 152k miles 0-60: yes
Because free
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Rickw
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: F-Body Brake Mod   Fri Oct 17, 2008 8:44 am

Yes, There are 2 of them. One for each side going to the rear. Located under car on right side frame rail.
And thanks for the above info. I plan on accumulating all the necessary parts and adding this to my winter project list.

To my knowledge every vehicle has a proportioning vale regardless of whether it has a dual reservoir master cylinder or not.
The two reservoirs or for safety. If a brake leak occurs in the front then there will still be fluid for the rear and vice-versa(But you knew that).
The proportioning valve is still needed to provide the front with more pressure than the rear in a specific proportion designed by the manufacturer.
In our car's (at least on my 98) there are two small cylindrical units in each brake line going to the rear calipers.
They act to restrict volume of fluid like a shuttle valve.
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AA
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: F-Body Brake Mod   Fri Oct 17, 2008 9:23 am

That could be true. I've never looked that closely. I've noticed the reservoirs are separate, so the traditional idea of a proportioning valve, one that splits pressure front/rear, isn't there. If the cylindrical units function as you say, I'd think of them as "pressure attenuators".

_________________
'98 SC Riviera 281k miles 298 HP/370 TQ 0-60: 5.79s ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 4087 lb 20.1 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley AL104 plugs 180 t-stat FWI w/K&N 1.9:1 rockers OR pushrods LS6 valve springs SLP headers ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts MaxAir shocks Addco sway bars UMI bushings GM STB Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus SS lines Brembo slotted discs DHP tuned Aeroforce Hidden Hitch

^^^ SOLD ^^^ frown

'05 GTO 85k miles 0-60: 4.8s 16.9 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun


'70 Olds Ninety-Eight Holiday Coupe 116k miles 455 Rocket V8
Because cool


'95 Celica 152k miles 0-60: yes
Because free
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http://www.cardomain.com/ride/657082/4
Rickw
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: F-Body Brake Mod   Fri Oct 17, 2008 9:34 am

Just looked at Chapt. 5 In Factory Service Manual, Pg 5-36. Proportioning Valve Description.
"Two valves are in line with the rear brake pipes, and limit the hydraulic pressure to the rear brakes after a predetermined master cylinder pressure has been reached. The proportioning valves improve front to rear brake balancing during normal braking."
The previous paragraph "Master Cylinder Description" is interesting as it explains how the reservoirs on this car split the brake fluid diagonally, left front and right rear on one reservoir, etc. Did not know this before.
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AA
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: F-Body Brake Mod   Fri Oct 17, 2008 10:31 am

Nice work Rick. That's very good info to know. I think our rear brakes could use a little more pressure, but not too much. I don't want the rear end flying out during a hard turn + stop. I already feel like this could happen sometimes, but it never has.

_________________
'98 SC Riviera 281k miles 298 HP/370 TQ 0-60: 5.79s ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 4087 lb 20.1 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley AL104 plugs 180 t-stat FWI w/K&N 1.9:1 rockers OR pushrods LS6 valve springs SLP headers ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts MaxAir shocks Addco sway bars UMI bushings GM STB Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus SS lines Brembo slotted discs DHP tuned Aeroforce Hidden Hitch

^^^ SOLD ^^^ frown

'05 GTO 85k miles 0-60: 4.8s 16.9 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun


'70 Olds Ninety-Eight Holiday Coupe 116k miles 455 Rocket V8
Because cool


'95 Celica 152k miles 0-60: yes
Because free
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http://www.cardomain.com/ride/657082/4
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: F-Body Brake Mod   Fri Oct 17, 2008 5:42 pm

Rickw wrote:
The previous paragraph "Master Cylinder Description" is interesting as it explains how the reservoirs on this car split the brake fluid diagonally, left front and right rear on one reservoir, etc. Did not know this before.

Most cars are like that. That's why we have a proportioning valve on each of the rear lines instead of just one. It's all for safety. If one path fails, you still have a front and rear brake that function normally.
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: F-Body Brake Mod   Fri Oct 17, 2008 7:35 pm

AA wrote:
Well, it's been 6 months (~15,000 miles) and the brakes are holding up pretty well. I get a very slight judder during a light/medium stop at cruising speed, but as I stop harder, it goes away.

forgive me for being lazy and not rereading the whole thread but...

are those drilled rotors?
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: F-Body Brake Mod   Fri Oct 17, 2008 8:00 pm

Slotted rotors. They are performing far better than the solid and drilled rotors I've tried.

_________________
'98 SC Riviera 281k miles 298 HP/370 TQ 0-60: 5.79s ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 4087 lb 20.1 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley AL104 plugs 180 t-stat FWI w/K&N 1.9:1 rockers OR pushrods LS6 valve springs SLP headers ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts MaxAir shocks Addco sway bars UMI bushings GM STB Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus SS lines Brembo slotted discs DHP tuned Aeroforce Hidden Hitch

^^^ SOLD ^^^ frown

'05 GTO 85k miles 0-60: 4.8s 16.9 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun


'70 Olds Ninety-Eight Holiday Coupe 116k miles 455 Rocket V8
Because cool


'95 Celica 152k miles 0-60: yes
Because free
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http://www.cardomain.com/ride/657082/4
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: F-Body Brake Mod   Sat Oct 18, 2008 9:51 am

Cool. I was wondering because warpage is usually due to overheating, so performance is there, but heat dissipation is still an issue it seems.
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AA
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: F-Body Brake Mod   Sat Oct 18, 2008 11:07 am

Based on the Stop Tech bulletins I've read, I doubt it's warping. Judder is often caused by uneven coating of pad compound on the rotor surface. This might explain why mine gets better the harder I use them.

The system seems to stand up to heat pretty well. I've pushed them to fading a few times, and apparent after effects. I think the steel used for the rotors is important. No more cheap Chinese steel for me!

_________________
'98 SC Riviera 281k miles 298 HP/370 TQ 0-60: 5.79s ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 4087 lb 20.1 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley AL104 plugs 180 t-stat FWI w/K&N 1.9:1 rockers OR pushrods LS6 valve springs SLP headers ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts MaxAir shocks Addco sway bars UMI bushings GM STB Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus SS lines Brembo slotted discs DHP tuned Aeroforce Hidden Hitch

^^^ SOLD ^^^ frown

'05 GTO 85k miles 0-60: 4.8s 16.9 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun


'70 Olds Ninety-Eight Holiday Coupe 116k miles 455 Rocket V8
Because cool


'95 Celica 152k miles 0-60: yes
Because free


Last edited by AA on Mon Oct 20, 2008 9:37 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: F-Body Brake Mod   Sun Oct 19, 2008 11:02 pm



Almost there...
waiting on Wbody store for a pair of banjo bolts.
They say they had to switch suppliers on those...

bounce
my front brakes are sounding like crap so sooner the better
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: F-Body Brake Mod   Sun Oct 19, 2008 11:13 pm

so i priced it out to do the swap on a 96 riv, and b/c of the complications with the lower knuckle and suspension diferences, the cheapest i can do this mod for is around $910! and that is with a good few used parts. unless i'm wrong and i can use the 97 lower knuckle with the 96 struts and LCA's.

Codith, that kit is looking really good btw

_________________
1996 with 254k miles, L324" FWI -> ported N* -> Ported Gen V w/3.0" Pulley, Stage 3 Phenolic I/C, ZZP FMHE, 1.84 RR, Headers and 3" pipe to mufflers, F-body brakes, and lowered on Eibachs. -RIP
AMG C400 White on black -daily
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PostSubject: Mystery of the Leaking Brake Line   Thu Oct 23, 2008 4:28 pm

On Monday, I took the car in to get a yearly front end inspection, checking for play in the hub, tie-rods, etc. I like to have a 2nd opinion with the car now approaching 170k miles.

So I pick the car up to learn I need outer tie-rod ends, and the driver side hub needs replaced (makes sense, as I replaced the passenger side about 100k miles ago). Oh, and there's a leak coming from the passenger brake line.

What?!! You mean that braided stainless line with only 15k miles on it?

My BS detector was pegged, but I trust my mechanic, and accepted a small leak could be possible, even though I was under the car a week earlier, cleaned the caliper with soapy water, and saw nothing wrong.

I assumed it must be a very minor leak, then. I paid the mechanic, then drove 1/2 mile before I noticed the pedal slowly descending to the floor under my foot. I was stopping, but something was wrong. Got out and told my coworker to press the pedal. I saw a stream of DOT 4 shoot out of the stainless line!

I called ZZP immediately to see what could be done. Since the lines are under warranty for a year or two (I forget which), they agreed to send me out a free replacement pair under the condition that I send the old ones back for inspection. Fair enough. The new lines just arrived today.

Ok, so I figure my stainless lines didn't just fail at the exact moment that I took my car in for inspection. I'm counting on finding some damage that will undoubtedly void my warranty, resulting in a charge from ZZP. I'm not so worried about getting money from my mechanic, but I'm perplexed: how on earth do you accidentally destroy a braided line intended to last forever? These things looked like they were made tough as hell. Anyone ever see one fail before? I hope to have an answer soon, but man, what a pain in the arse!

Props to ZZP for great customer service, btw. I really hope their product turns out to be defect free. I'd really hate to have to worry about these lines as a weak link going forward.

_________________
'98 SC Riviera 281k miles 298 HP/370 TQ 0-60: 5.79s ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 4087 lb 20.1 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley AL104 plugs 180 t-stat FWI w/K&N 1.9:1 rockers OR pushrods LS6 valve springs SLP headers ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts MaxAir shocks Addco sway bars UMI bushings GM STB Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus SS lines Brembo slotted discs DHP tuned Aeroforce Hidden Hitch

^^^ SOLD ^^^ frown

'05 GTO 85k miles 0-60: 4.8s 16.9 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun


'70 Olds Ninety-Eight Holiday Coupe 116k miles 455 Rocket V8
Because cool


'95 Celica 152k miles 0-60: yes
Because free
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: F-Body Brake Mod   

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Write-Up: F-Body Brake Mod
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