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 Write-Up: F-Body Brake Mod

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Mr.Riviera
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: F-Body Brake Mod   Fri Apr 25, 2008 11:51 am

i'd think it would be easier on the MC since it takes less pressure to get the same force on the pads since there are 2 pistons now. but my logic could be skewed

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1996 with 244k miles, L324" FWI -> ported N* -> Ported Gen V w/3.0" Pulley, Stage 3 Phenolic I/C, ZZP FMHE, 1.84 RR, Headers and 3" pipe to mufflers, F-body brakes, and lowered on Eibachs.
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: F-Body Brake Mod   Fri Apr 25, 2008 4:56 pm

Interesting. I'm thinking it will be okay. I don't see the W-body cars having any problems yet.

I thought the Riviera used DOT 3 fluid. Anyone using DOT 4? Can they mix? I am hoping to gravity flush the system when I hook up the calipers. Feeding the new stuff up top until the old drips out.

_________________
'98 SC Riviera 268k miles 298 HP/370 TQ 0-60: 5.79s ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 4087 lb 20.1 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley AL104 plugs 180 t-stat FWI w/K&N 1.9:1 rockers OR pushrods LS6 valve springs SLP headers ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts MaxAir shocks Addco sway bars UMI bushings GM STB Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus SS lines Brembo slotted discs DHP tuned Aeroforce Hidden Hitch


'05 GTO 49k miles 0-60: 4.8s 16.9 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: F-Body Brake Mod   Fri Apr 25, 2008 9:37 pm

DOT4 is fine to mix with DOT3. It's a no-brainer upgrade for anyone that likes good braking under race-like or high-load conditions. The main difference is that it has a significantly higher temp rating and will prevent brake fading. Some manufactures require it for their ABS cars as a precaution. I could be mistaken but I believe that DOT4 is, by definition, a sythetic grade fluid also, while DOT3 is usually not. You can buy synthetic DOT3 though.

Aaron, I'd take a quick glance at your service manual about bleeding the brakes in this car to make sure there isn't anything special to it, particularly with the ABS system.


Last edited by turtleman on Fri Apr 25, 2008 9:39 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: F-Body Brake Mod   Fri Apr 25, 2008 10:13 pm

i've gravity bled mine several times without any problems. the only issue i had was once i wasnt watching the MC resov closely, and the level dropped below the sensor causing it to ding and tell me the level was low even after i filled it. it ended up being a bubble on the sensor, and tapping on the resov took care of it. i think i used DOT3 synthetic the last time.

are there any negative sides to using SS lines? i've heard you have to change them out more frequently than with stock lines, but i cant remember why.

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1996 with 244k miles, L324" FWI -> ported N* -> Ported Gen V w/3.0" Pulley, Stage 3 Phenolic I/C, ZZP FMHE, 1.84 RR, Headers and 3" pipe to mufflers, F-body brakes, and lowered on Eibachs.
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: F-Body Brake Mod   Sun Apr 27, 2008 10:18 pm

Ok, so Friday evening I finished assembling the new calipers. Greased the slide pins, threaded the bleeder valves, and attached the clips and pads. Here is everything ready to go:



Here is an EBC GD Series rotor. It was nice of them to label L & R:



Picked up some DOT 4 fluid and gravity bled the driver-side line, making sure to keep the reservoir full. This required refilling about every 10 minutes. I did not push the pedal. Meantime, I fitted the new rotor and caliper, using the McMaster spacers:

Note from Admin: DO NOT USE THE BUSHING SPACER SLEEVES AS SHOWN IN THE CLUBGP WRITE-UP. THESE HAVE SHOWN TO WEAR AND CAUSE LOOSENING OF THE CALIPER. SOLUTION - HAVE YOUR F-BODY BRACKETS DRILLED AND TAPPED TO ACCEPT THE OEM BUICK CALIPER BOLTS.



Used a vacuum pump to bleed air and old fluid out of the caliper, then gravity bled the passenger side, mounted the rotor/caliper, and repeated with vacuum pump. Here's the passenger side turned max left to check SS hoses:



Here's the driver side:



I tried to rotate the rotors by hand - this was very tough. Put the wheels back on, and drove out to bed-in the pads. Holy hell were these things loud! I thought I did something wrong... squealing and grinding, took several miles before they stopped making noise. Then I followed Hawk's bedding procedures, and things quieted down. I assume the calipers were sticking a bit, too - from being out of service for awhile. Once everything got hot and the pads bedded in, they started working right.

These brakes will stop the car quick. Enough that you can clear stuff off the back seat, and some of it will land up front. I do feel much safer driving the Riv with these brakes. Best part is, during normal driving, they feel a lot like the old stockers. Pedal feel is about the same. But try for a panic stop; you will hear some rubber squeal right before ABS kicks in. And you will slow in a hurry.

After finishing the bed-in at 12 am, I parked her overnight and then took a 250-mile round trip to Cleveland the following morning - only 10 hours after the installation. It went very well.

I can say these EBC slotted rotors are the loudest rotors I've ever heard. But they're loud in a nice way. It's a kind of high pitched fluttering, kind of like scissors cutting very fast. It's something I would expect to hear on a race car, and it sounds refined. Must be the slots interacting with the pads?

Here's a pic of the new set-up (after 250 miles):



More pics in my showroom thread: http://rivperformance.editboard.com/showroom-f3/my-1998-sc-rivera-t2-15.htm#34383

_________________
'98 SC Riviera 268k miles 298 HP/370 TQ 0-60: 5.79s ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 4087 lb 20.1 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley AL104 plugs 180 t-stat FWI w/K&N 1.9:1 rockers OR pushrods LS6 valve springs SLP headers ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts MaxAir shocks Addco sway bars UMI bushings GM STB Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus SS lines Brembo slotted discs DHP tuned Aeroforce Hidden Hitch


'05 GTO 49k miles 0-60: 4.8s 16.9 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun


Last edited by AA on Wed Apr 28, 2010 5:52 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: F-Body Brake Mod   Sun Apr 27, 2008 10:34 pm

that looks AMAZING sir!
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: F-Body Brake Mod   Sun Apr 27, 2008 10:38 pm

Yes, very sharp! Looks good Aaron! Glad she stops well!


(I still have to argue that I never had a problem making loose crap hit me in the back of the head with the stock brakes)

(although I did get into a ummm highway situation this weekend that may have warped my rotors, which may not have happened had they been drilled/slotted)
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: F-Body Brake Mod   Sun Apr 27, 2008 10:45 pm

Thanks for the compliments, guys.

I have no real complaints about the stock fronts other than they develop judder after 25-30K miles, or if abused, even sooner. Drilled rotors did not help in my case. The 2-pistons just feel more solid, even if they don't stop the car that much faster (but I think they do).

What I like about these F-Body brakes, I feel like I could do a 100-10 mph slow without any vibration, maybe a couple times. Haven't tried that yet, but have done 80-20 mph. No fade. And time will tell how long the EBC rotors will last.

_________________
'98 SC Riviera 268k miles 298 HP/370 TQ 0-60: 5.79s ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 4087 lb 20.1 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley AL104 plugs 180 t-stat FWI w/K&N 1.9:1 rockers OR pushrods LS6 valve springs SLP headers ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts MaxAir shocks Addco sway bars UMI bushings GM STB Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus SS lines Brembo slotted discs DHP tuned Aeroforce Hidden Hitch


'05 GTO 49k miles 0-60: 4.8s 16.9 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: F-Body Brake Mod   Sun Apr 27, 2008 10:47 pm

Nice calipers, reminds me of what my dad did to our Volvo 850. He painted the stock calipers that same bright yellow and it looked pretty good. Not to go off topic in your thread but it had rims like this:
Spoiler:
 
I'm kinda surprised you can see them on the Riv, I thought with the type of rims we had you couldn't see it. Next time I change the brakes I'm gonna paint the calipers. Do they only offer caliper paint in yellow and red? I haven't seen it in any other color.
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: F-Body Brake Mod   Sun Apr 27, 2008 10:49 pm

I was hoping that it might firm up the pedal feel a bit. I honestly do not like the feel of the brakes in this car. I feel like I have to kill a cat under the pedal to stop the car in everyday driving. Most of the roads around my house are 55mph roads so I still think it might be more in my head.

I really gotta get my other caliper ordered and do this mod. I've gotten a lot of other more urgent matters slammed onto my plate since I started it.

Looking good though, Aaron!
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: F-Body Brake Mod   Sun Apr 27, 2008 10:50 pm

Black, Blue, Orange, Green, Silver, White, are also available.

FYI, I would not have painted my calipers if not for the upgrade. For me it's about keeping them clean more than showing off. I have no intention to paint the rears unless I find the need to upgrade (I won't).

_________________
'98 SC Riviera 268k miles 298 HP/370 TQ 0-60: 5.79s ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 4087 lb 20.1 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley AL104 plugs 180 t-stat FWI w/K&N 1.9:1 rockers OR pushrods LS6 valve springs SLP headers ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts MaxAir shocks Addco sway bars UMI bushings GM STB Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus SS lines Brembo slotted discs DHP tuned Aeroforce Hidden Hitch


'05 GTO 49k miles 0-60: 4.8s 16.9 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun


Last edited by AA on Sun Apr 27, 2008 11:04 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: F-Body Brake Mod   Sun Apr 27, 2008 10:51 pm

turtleman wrote:
I was hoping that it might firm up the pedal feel a bit. I honestly do not like the feel of the brakes in this car. I feel like I have to kill a cat under the pedal to stop the car in everyday driving. Most of the roads around my house are 55mph roads so I still think it might be more in my head.

I really gotta get my other caliper ordered and do this mod. I've gotten a lot of other more urgent matters slammed onto my plate since I started it.

Looking good though, Aaron!

is yours a '96? Did those have the 12" brakes stock?
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: F-Body Brake Mod   Sun Apr 27, 2008 10:53 pm

Quote :
I was hoping that it might firm up the pedal feel a bit.

Maybe what I mean by it feeling "solid" is the added firmness from the SS lines. Pedal travel is about the same though, and pressure is similar. I really can't tell what part is doing what, or why I like these better, but I would not change back.

I do like having to press hard to brake. I think it gives better feel. Some cars that have ultra sensitive brake pedals feel artificial to me.

_________________
'98 SC Riviera 268k miles 298 HP/370 TQ 0-60: 5.79s ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 4087 lb 20.1 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley AL104 plugs 180 t-stat FWI w/K&N 1.9:1 rockers OR pushrods LS6 valve springs SLP headers ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts MaxAir shocks Addco sway bars UMI bushings GM STB Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus SS lines Brembo slotted discs DHP tuned Aeroforce Hidden Hitch


'05 GTO 49k miles 0-60: 4.8s 16.9 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: F-Body Brake Mod   Sun Apr 27, 2008 11:01 pm

I think a white might go nicely with my white paint. Did you see these all at one store? The last time I was at Autozone all I saw were the yellow and red ones.
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: F-Body Brake Mod   Sun Apr 27, 2008 11:03 pm

96's have 11" rotors, so the upgrade should be even more dramatic for us.
i do wish our cars had more "light pressure" response, but i have no problem stopping the car if i go hard on the brakes, even with stock 96 rotors/pads. every one of my friends who rides in my car says i stop hard, maybe i do, or maybe i'm trying to get more out of our stock systems than there is to offer. this upgrade is defiantly on my list!
i'm sticking with the red calipers though wink

on a side note, one of the worst pedal feels has to be in the chevy/gmc suburbans. absolutely horrible.

_________________
1996 with 244k miles, L324" FWI -> ported N* -> Ported Gen V w/3.0" Pulley, Stage 3 Phenolic I/C, ZZP FMHE, 1.84 RR, Headers and 3" pipe to mufflers, F-body brakes, and lowered on Eibachs.
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: F-Body Brake Mod   Sun Apr 27, 2008 11:05 pm

I saw blue, red, yellow, black, silver, at the store. You could also use engine paint, or any hi-temp paint.

_________________
'98 SC Riviera 268k miles 298 HP/370 TQ 0-60: 5.79s ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 4087 lb 20.1 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley AL104 plugs 180 t-stat FWI w/K&N 1.9:1 rockers OR pushrods LS6 valve springs SLP headers ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts MaxAir shocks Addco sway bars UMI bushings GM STB Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus SS lines Brembo slotted discs DHP tuned Aeroforce Hidden Hitch


'05 GTO 49k miles 0-60: 4.8s 16.9 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: F-Body Brake Mod   Sun Apr 27, 2008 11:10 pm

Mr.Riviera wrote:
on a side note, one of the worst pedal feels has to be in the chevy/gmc suburbans. absolutely horrible.

Idk , my sister had an 04 or 05 impala , and its brake pedal feel was pretty terrible too.
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: F-Body Brake Mod   Sun Apr 27, 2008 11:13 pm

What store did you see it at?
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: F-Body Brake Mod   Sun Apr 27, 2008 11:14 pm

Autozone. Duplicolor brand.

_________________
'98 SC Riviera 268k miles 298 HP/370 TQ 0-60: 5.79s ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 4087 lb 20.1 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley AL104 plugs 180 t-stat FWI w/K&N 1.9:1 rockers OR pushrods LS6 valve springs SLP headers ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts MaxAir shocks Addco sway bars UMI bushings GM STB Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus SS lines Brembo slotted discs DHP tuned Aeroforce Hidden Hitch


'05 GTO 49k miles 0-60: 4.8s 16.9 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: F-Body Brake Mod   Sun Apr 27, 2008 11:44 pm

Mr.Riviera wrote:
on a side note, one of the worst pedal feels has to be in the chevy/gmc suburbans. absolutely horrible.

I'll second that. They feel like they despirately need to be bled and you can actually put your foot down on the brake and hit the floorboard if you want. I did this while it was in park.
I think part of the blame has to go to the adjustable pedals most of those models have.
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: F-Body Brake Mod   Mon Apr 28, 2008 1:22 pm

WARNING: check SS brake hose clearance AFTER installing tires. I neglected to do this, and noticed a slight rubbing sound when turning the wheel for parking and slow cornering. Not much wear, but it's evident the tire has made some contact with the brake hose.

I think I can turn the nut on the end of the hoses to "aim" them away from the wheel. Will try to do this tomorrow. Until then, guess I'll not turn the car!

_________________
'98 SC Riviera 268k miles 298 HP/370 TQ 0-60: 5.79s ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 4087 lb 20.1 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley AL104 plugs 180 t-stat FWI w/K&N 1.9:1 rockers OR pushrods LS6 valve springs SLP headers ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts MaxAir shocks Addco sway bars UMI bushings GM STB Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus SS lines Brembo slotted discs DHP tuned Aeroforce Hidden Hitch


'05 GTO 49k miles 0-60: 4.8s 16.9 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun


Last edited by AA on Sun Sep 07, 2008 6:11 pm; edited 2 times in total
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: F-Body Brake Mod   Mon Apr 28, 2008 9:29 pm

what year f body calipers do you guys suggest
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: F-Body Brake Mod   Tue Apr 29, 2008 9:35 am

1998-2002 2-piston aluminum calipers.

_________________
'98 SC Riviera 268k miles 298 HP/370 TQ 0-60: 5.79s ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 4087 lb 20.1 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley AL104 plugs 180 t-stat FWI w/K&N 1.9:1 rockers OR pushrods LS6 valve springs SLP headers ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts MaxAir shocks Addco sway bars UMI bushings GM STB Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus SS lines Brembo slotted discs DHP tuned Aeroforce Hidden Hitch


'05 GTO 49k miles 0-60: 4.8s 16.9 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: F-Body Brake Mod   Thu May 01, 2008 1:07 am

So what all would be necessary to do this swap on a '96?
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: F-Body Brake Mod   Thu May 01, 2008 8:12 am

see page 1

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1996 with 244k miles, L324" FWI -> ported N* -> Ported Gen V w/3.0" Pulley, Stage 3 Phenolic I/C, ZZP FMHE, 1.84 RR, Headers and 3" pipe to mufflers, F-body brakes, and lowered on Eibachs.
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