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 Gutted air box?

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IBx1
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PostSubject: Gutted air box?   Gutted air box? EmptyWed Feb 06, 2008 1:14 pm

I want to make my Riv's supercharger scream down the road. I know that fabricating a CAI or FWI will do this, but I was wondering if a gutted air box would do the same? The other two seem too hard to do, and sound a bit iffy for someone who doesn't know how to change the sensors and stuff like that. Does anyone know if a gutted air box will make a sound difference, and are there any writeups? I can't find any guides on how to do this. Is it relatively easy, and how much time would it take?
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1998 Riv
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PostSubject: Re: Gutted air box?   Gutted air box? EmptyWed Feb 06, 2008 1:23 pm

No, a gutted airbox won't make it scream. The SC whine WILL be more noticeable, but not what you seem to want.

Simple process, really. Check the FAQ's, should be a writeup.
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AA
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PostSubject: Re: Gutted air box?   Gutted air box? EmptyWed Feb 06, 2008 1:23 pm

The benefits of CAI or FWI is not only more flow, but cooler intake air temps, which you don't get as much from the OEM airbox.

The '95 year should be "pre-gutted" from the factory.

_________________
'98 SC Riviera • 281k miles • 298 HP/370 TQ • 0-60: 5.79s • ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 • 4087 lb • 20.1 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley • AL104 plugs • 180º t-stat • FWI w/K&N • 1.9:1 rockers • OR pushrods • LS6 valve springs • SLP headers • ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts • MaxAir shocks • Addco sway bars • UMI bushings • GM STB • Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s • F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus • SS lines • Brembo slotted discs • DHP tuned • Aeroforce • Hidden Hitch

^^^ SOLD ^^^ frown

'05 GTO • 85k miles • 0-60: 4.8s • 16.9 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun


'70 Olds Ninety-Eight Holiday Coupe • 116k miles • 455 Rocket V8
Because cool


'95 Celica • 152k miles • 0-60: yes
Because free
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IBx1
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Gutted air box? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Gutted air box?   Gutted air box? EmptyWed Feb 06, 2008 1:41 pm

AA wrote:
The benefits of CAI or FWI is not only more flow, but cooler intake air temps, which you don't get as much from the OEM airbox.

The '95 year should be "pre-gutted" from the factory.

Alright. Problem is, if I do a CAI, I will have to do some fabrication. I imagine I'd also have to tune the sensors to adjust for more air and more fuel. More fuel is also a concern of mine. I don't mind the extra horses, but it's the sound I really want. I haven't even driven mine yet, but I do love the s/c whine. If the '95 is 'pre-gutted' then never mind, I've already found the CAI and FWI intake writeups.

I have no intention on making a FWI because of troublesome maintainence, and roads around here tend to flood deep for anything more than a drizzle. The last thing I need is a bunch of $40 tubing put in for a quick-fix mod flooding my engine and costing me thousands.
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PostSubject: Re: Gutted air box?   Gutted air box? EmptyWed Feb 06, 2008 1:59 pm

Let me just say that after driving with a FWI for over a year and through some deep localized flooding I've had no problems with my air filter seeing any water.

As far as that goes, I don't think there is any CAI that will be 'Cold' unless you go to an FWI. Any open cone setup will be engine compartment air, which kills the purpose of the thing.

Before going to FWI I had taken my airbox, gutted it and put big strips of foam insulation around the air openings to help it only draw air from those holes leading to the fenderwell. Just doing that dropped my intake temps a few degrees, but didn't change the sound very much (it did change some). I still have my gutted/insulated airbox if you want to try it!
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IBx1
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PostSubject: Re: Gutted air box?   Gutted air box? EmptyWed Feb 06, 2008 2:18 pm

Well, AA said that the '95's are pre-gutted. The oddball of the 8th gen...

My concerns are that when it's time to clean the FWI filter, I have to take the wheel off, fender off, and then recharge the filter. Also, like I said, I just want the sound up, but I know that if it's sucking warmer air than the stock airbox would, it's bad for the engine.
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AA
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PostSubject: Re: Gutted air box?   Gutted air box? EmptyWed Feb 06, 2008 2:20 pm

I've ran my FWI almost 3 years with no problems. The danger of water entering the engine is near 0% unless you drive through about 18" or more. There are no known cases of a Riviera using FWI that has been damaged from water. That's a myth derived from stupid people who run an unprotected air filter too close to the ground.

CAI does involve some fabrication, but there are advantages to this design, mainly the filter stays cleaner, and presentation can be awesome. There is also the possibility of better air flow because it's not tunneling through a long tube as with FWI. Instead, the air travels from the box to the engine through a very short pipe. CAI can also be insulated well-enough to significantly lower IAT, but usually FWI will do a better job. Both are better than the stock airbox.

Here is another option that looks like it would work quite well:
http://rivperformance.editboard.com/series-ii-engine-transmission-f4/write-up-modified-air-box-cai-t1289.htm

As for air/fuel issues, changing the intake design is compensated for by the MAF sensor, which reads density of the intake air. This makes temperature and air speed irrelevant, because it all comes down to density. Your PCM will know if the air is colder or hotter, and adjust accordingly to add/cut fuel. If the intake provides for greater air flow, it's only letting the blower claim the air it's entitled to, so that's good. Makes the engine work less to make more power.

_________________
'98 SC Riviera • 281k miles • 298 HP/370 TQ • 0-60: 5.79s • ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 • 4087 lb • 20.1 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley • AL104 plugs • 180º t-stat • FWI w/K&N • 1.9:1 rockers • OR pushrods • LS6 valve springs • SLP headers • ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts • MaxAir shocks • Addco sway bars • UMI bushings • GM STB • Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s • F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus • SS lines • Brembo slotted discs • DHP tuned • Aeroforce • Hidden Hitch

^^^ SOLD ^^^ frown

'05 GTO • 85k miles • 0-60: 4.8s • 16.9 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun


'70 Olds Ninety-Eight Holiday Coupe • 116k miles • 455 Rocket V8
Because cool


'95 Celica • 152k miles • 0-60: yes
Because free


Last edited by on Wed Feb 06, 2008 2:25 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Mr.Riviera
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PostSubject: Re: Gutted air box?   Gutted air box? EmptyWed Feb 06, 2008 2:22 pm

since the 95's are pre gutted you could just replace the intake tube with something that resonates more. like PVC or metal if you can find it. leave the stock air box, drop in a K&N and use couplers to attach a different tube from the box to the TB. that should give you a little more sound and it would be better than an open filter on the intake. also if you want to hear more whine, you can remove some the the sound deadening material from other places like:
1.engine cover
2. rubber strip at top of firewall
3. sounds insulator on intake tube. (IDK how the 95's are set up)
4. port the blower and intake
5. remove hood insulation
6. drive with the windows down more wink (mine are down as long as its not raining or colder than 50*, which is like 40 days of the year cold

_________________
1996 with 254k miles, L32 4" FWI -> ported N* -> Ported Gen V w/3.0" Pulley, Stage 3 Phenolic I/C, ZZP FMHE, 1.84 RR, Headers and 3" pipe to mufflers, F-body brakes, and lowered on Eibachs. -RIP
AMG C400 White on black -daily
Gutted air box? Dsc_0110
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AA
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PostSubject: Re: Gutted air box?   Gutted air box? EmptyWed Feb 06, 2008 2:28 pm

...or, you skip all of that and just install a FWI. Having the filter in the fender sends blower whine straight up through the door, and into the cabin. If you remove all the above mentioned insulation, you'll hear more than the blower, the vibrations and other sounds from the engine will also escape.

_________________
'98 SC Riviera • 281k miles • 298 HP/370 TQ • 0-60: 5.79s • ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 • 4087 lb • 20.1 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley • AL104 plugs • 180º t-stat • FWI w/K&N • 1.9:1 rockers • OR pushrods • LS6 valve springs • SLP headers • ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts • MaxAir shocks • Addco sway bars • UMI bushings • GM STB • Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s • F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus • SS lines • Brembo slotted discs • DHP tuned • Aeroforce • Hidden Hitch

^^^ SOLD ^^^ frown

'05 GTO • 85k miles • 0-60: 4.8s • 16.9 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun


'70 Olds Ninety-Eight Holiday Coupe • 116k miles • 455 Rocket V8
Because cool


'95 Celica • 152k miles • 0-60: yes
Because free
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IBx1
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IBx1

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Gutted air box? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Gutted air box?   Gutted air box? EmptyWed Feb 06, 2008 2:33 pm

AA, I'm not sure what's going on in that thread, I haven't been under my car, but an exposed filter that low to the ground doesn't sound like a good idea to me.

Mr. Riviera, when you say to drop in a K&N, do you mean a filter panel or tubing or what? I don't want all the other noise and vibration from the engine so I will leave the cover alone. I'm leaving the firewall rubber alone, because I don't want water running into the engine from the hood when it snows or rains. I will also leave the hood insulation alone for now for aesthetics, but the windows and sunroof open sounds like it would help, too.

As far as I can tell, what you're saying is to replace the intake tubing going from the stock throttle body to the stock air box. That sounds like it won't be too hard to do. I'll look under my hood later to see if it would be a hassle. Also, what is porting the intake? Could you explain that to me please?
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PostSubject: Re: Gutted air box?   Gutted air box? EmptyWed Feb 06, 2008 2:35 pm

Does anyone have any pictures of their FWI from the engine compartment? I would like to see how the tubing is run from the intake to wherever around the left wheel it is.
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AA
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PostSubject: Re: Gutted air box?   Gutted air box? EmptyWed Feb 06, 2008 2:43 pm

In the link I provided, all he did was remove the lower half of the OEM air box and then cut a larger hole for the filter panel to breath. The filter isn't any closer to the ground than stock.

A K&N drop-in is simply a better-flowing filter the same size and fit as the OEM filter. You can drop it in with no modification. I used to own one, sold it to 1998_Riv. Good product, imo.

As for earlier comments on FWI filter maintenance, I'd recommend cleaning every 6 months to a year. It's not super hard to do, you just crank the wheel to the left and remove 3-4 fasteners holding the plastic fenderwell cover in place. That's it.

For some of my experiences with FWI, see this thread:
http://rivperformance.editboard.com/series-ii-engine-transmission-f4/write-up-installing-fwi-filter-heat-shield-air-scoop-t1209.htm

_________________
'98 SC Riviera • 281k miles • 298 HP/370 TQ • 0-60: 5.79s • ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 • 4087 lb • 20.1 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley • AL104 plugs • 180º t-stat • FWI w/K&N • 1.9:1 rockers • OR pushrods • LS6 valve springs • SLP headers • ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts • MaxAir shocks • Addco sway bars • UMI bushings • GM STB • Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s • F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus • SS lines • Brembo slotted discs • DHP tuned • Aeroforce • Hidden Hitch

^^^ SOLD ^^^ frown

'05 GTO • 85k miles • 0-60: 4.8s • 16.9 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun


'70 Olds Ninety-Eight Holiday Coupe • 116k miles • 455 Rocket V8
Because cool


'95 Celica • 152k miles • 0-60: yes
Because free
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IBx1
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Gutted air box? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Gutted air box?   Gutted air box? EmptyWed Feb 06, 2008 5:31 pm

So where do I get a K&N drop-in if they don't make them for the Riv?
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Mr.Riviera
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PostSubject: Re: Gutted air box?   Gutted air box? EmptyWed Feb 06, 2008 5:35 pm

they dont make intakes for rivs, but they do have drop in panel filters made of cotton. 33-2086 for K&N. check ebay for them they will be 30-50 bucks new

_________________
1996 with 254k miles, L32 4" FWI -> ported N* -> Ported Gen V w/3.0" Pulley, Stage 3 Phenolic I/C, ZZP FMHE, 1.84 RR, Headers and 3" pipe to mufflers, F-body brakes, and lowered on Eibachs. -RIP
AMG C400 White on black -daily
Gutted air box? Dsc_0110
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IBx1
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PostSubject: Re: Gutted air box?   Gutted air box? EmptyWed Feb 06, 2008 5:41 pm

And these panels fit in the stock airbox? Is there a write up here on how to replace it?
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AA
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Gutted air box? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Gutted air box?   Gutted air box? EmptyWed Feb 06, 2008 9:01 pm


_________________
'98 SC Riviera • 281k miles • 298 HP/370 TQ • 0-60: 5.79s • ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 • 4087 lb • 20.1 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley • AL104 plugs • 180º t-stat • FWI w/K&N • 1.9:1 rockers • OR pushrods • LS6 valve springs • SLP headers • ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts • MaxAir shocks • Addco sway bars • UMI bushings • GM STB • Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s • F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus • SS lines • Brembo slotted discs • DHP tuned • Aeroforce • Hidden Hitch

^^^ SOLD ^^^ frown

'05 GTO • 85k miles • 0-60: 4.8s • 16.9 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun


'70 Olds Ninety-Eight Holiday Coupe • 116k miles • 455 Rocket V8
Because cool


'95 Celica • 152k miles • 0-60: yes
Because free
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IBx1
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IBx1

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Gutted air box? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Gutted air box?   Gutted air box? EmptyWed Feb 06, 2008 9:47 pm

Thanks! I will probably just replace the stock air filter with a K&N, and see if I can change the intake tubing to either metal or PVC or whatever it is later on. No CAI or FWI for me.
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Gutted air box? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Gutted air box?   Gutted air box? EmptyThu Feb 07, 2008 8:53 am

one thing you can do that will help a lot - when you gut the airbox, and have the bottom part out of the car, build up around the air passages to the fenderwell with some kind of insulation. I used a thick foam sticky door/window insulation I got at home depot. I think it made a big difference.
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