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 Write-Up: Hockey Puck & Casting Front/Side Motor Mounts

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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Hockey Puck & Casting Front/Side Motor Mounts   Tue May 10, 2011 1:35 pm

Thats exactly what i did, i just didnt use a pipe. Im going to put pucks in the rear mount soon and ill let you know how it turns out.
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Hockey Puck & Casting Front/Side Motor Mounts   Tue May 10, 2011 10:51 pm

I like that. I'm gonna take my spare front mount and do it sometime soon even. My only concern with it is I wonder if it will end up putting more stress on my current rear mount that's getting by for now but pretty much on it's way to being bad already..?
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Hockey Puck & Casting Front/Side Motor Mounts   Tue May 10, 2011 11:02 pm

Probably, yes. You haven't changed your rear mount yet? Maybe can use pucks all around.

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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Hockey Puck & Casting Front/Side Motor Mounts   Tue May 10, 2011 11:04 pm

AA wrote:
Probably, yes. You haven't changed your rear mount yet? Maybe can use pucks all around.

I bought new Anchor's for the front and rear mounts. I never got around to 3M'ing them in time for the cradle job though so I'm working on them now to install this summer while I have the engine out again.
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Hockey Puck & Casting Front/Side Motor Mounts   Tue May 10, 2011 11:53 pm

AA wrote:
Probably, yes. You haven't changed your rear mount yet? Maybe can use pucks all around.
Definitely yes, my rear mount was on the way out when i did the front and theres nothing left of the rear now
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Hockey Puck & Casting Front/Side Motor Mounts   Tue May 17, 2011 1:34 am

AA wrote:
a piece of black iron pipe as a sleeve (5/8" OD, 1/2" ID, 3.9" L)

I'm making mine. I went to the store and I got the 1/2" ID black pipe. Turns out the ID and OD of my pipe is too big. It's too big for my 5/8" hole that I drilled into the pucks and the bolt is really loose in it. I measured the OD of the pipe to be just a hair over 3/4". What kind of pipe did you get?
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Hockey Puck & Casting Front/Side Motor Mounts   Tue May 17, 2011 9:10 am

3/4" is too big - you probably bought 5/8" ID. I used a 5/8" spade bit and had to ream out the hole in the pucks a bit to get the pipe to fit - pressed it in with the vise. The pipe I used is 5/8 outside dia (OD), which is 1/2" inside dia (ID). It's called black iron, used for residential gas & plumbing, and comes threaded on each end. The mounting bolt was slightly loose in the pipe, but just a tiny bit.

http://www.lowes.com/pd_28021-185-308+L38X12_4294821999_4294937087_?productId=3360846

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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Hockey Puck & Casting Front/Side Motor Mounts   Tue May 17, 2011 3:52 pm

AA wrote:
3/4" is too big - you probably bought 5/8" ID. I used a 5/8" spade bit and had to ream out the hole in the pucks a bit to get the pipe to fit - pressed it in with the vise. The pipe I used is 5/8 outside dia (OD), which is 1/2" inside dia (ID). It's called black iron, used for residential gas & plumbing, and comes threaded on each end. The mounting bolt was slightly loose in the pipe, but just a tiny bit.

http://www.lowes.com/pd_28021-185-308+L38X12_4294821999_4294937087_?productId=3360846

I'll try another store if Ace doesn't have what I need. These pipes didn't have ID and OD, just one measurement and they had black or galvanized for 10c more.
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Hockey Puck & Casting Front/Side Motor Mounts   Tue May 17, 2011 4:22 pm

Sorry about the confusion. I provided the ID & OD assuming you might measure it in the store before you bought it. Didn't consider you might ask them for 5/8, but that would make perfect sense!

Pipe specs make absolutely no sense to me. There are different systems, and the specs used in stores do not accurately reflect the actual dia, because it's based on older specs that have changed over time. I believe the correct size for our black or wrought iron threaded pipe is 3/8" Nominal Pipe Size (NPS). The 3/8" NPS size has an internal dia of .493" and an outside dia of .675", so that's where I got my measurements from. I don't know why they call it 3/8".

Check this link and scroll down to "Wrought Iron Pipe" to see what I'm talking about: http://www.gizmology.net/pipe.htm

Note that with other materials (copper, PVC), the 3/8" NPS size pipes have different ID dimensions!

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'98 SC Riviera 268k miles 298 HP/370 TQ 0-60: 5.79s ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 4087 lb 20.1 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley AL104 plugs 180 t-stat FWI w/K&N 1.9:1 rockers OR pushrods LS6 valve springs SLP headers ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts MaxAir shocks Addco sway bars UMI bushings GM STB Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus SS lines Brembo slotted discs DHP tuned Aeroforce Hidden Hitch


'05 GTO 49k miles 0-60: 4.8s 16.9 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Hockey Puck & Casting Front/Side Motor Mounts   Tue May 17, 2011 5:02 pm

I exchanged it and got a 3/8" x 5.5" long. It's about 5/8" OD and the M12 bolt size fits snug so looks like I got the right one now.
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Hockey Puck & Casting Front/Side Motor Mounts   Wed May 18, 2011 11:44 am

Got it done - just like AA's prototype with the exception of my hole being offset 1/4" from center for reasons not related to this thread.
Not very hard to do. It looks like AA used a bench grinder to trim down the pucks - I used a bench mount sander. Same difference.


just gotta get the final position for the sleeve


new anchor mount on the left, HP mount on the right





I'm not noticing a dramatic difference in vibration after putting this thing in so I'm guessing the tired stock rear mount is just getting all the torque now pale Good thing that's getting changed this summer.


Last edited by turtleman on Wed May 18, 2011 4:20 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Hockey Puck & Casting Front/Side Motor Mounts   Wed May 18, 2011 4:10 pm

I noticed that the Anchor mounts are beefier than the OE mounts, to begin with. Any comments. My new (Anchor) mounts transmit some vibration to the cabin at idle, not so much it's a hassle (and none while moving) but makes me wonder if rigging a set of liquid-filled mounts might be a better idea.

Comments?
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Hockey Puck & Casting Front/Side Motor Mounts   Wed May 18, 2011 4:22 pm

I didn't notice the difference, but you could be right. I assume they could have noted how the OEM design wore out and added some thickness to compensate.

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'98 SC Riviera 268k miles 298 HP/370 TQ 0-60: 5.79s ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 4087 lb 20.1 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley AL104 plugs 180 t-stat FWI w/K&N 1.9:1 rockers OR pushrods LS6 valve springs SLP headers ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts MaxAir shocks Addco sway bars UMI bushings GM STB Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus SS lines Brembo slotted discs DHP tuned Aeroforce Hidden Hitch


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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Hockey Puck & Casting Front/Side Motor Mounts   Wed May 18, 2011 4:40 pm

AA wrote:
I didn't notice the difference, but you could be right. I assume they could have noted how the OEM design wore out and added some thickness to compensate.

It also could be they were mis-installed (I did not do the install) - might have to crawl under there and basically, use a floor jack and some wood blocks to put the engine in right position while loosening and then re-tightening the mount bolts to relieve stresses.

I *MIGHT* look at it Saturday if I finish the must-do's (mowing) early enough.

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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Hockey Puck & Casting Front/Side Motor Mounts   Wed May 18, 2011 4:54 pm

albertj wrote:
I noticed that the Anchor mounts are beefier than the OE mounts, to begin with.


YUP!
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Hockey Puck & Casting Front/Side Motor Mounts   Wed May 18, 2011 6:06 pm

Only have to look once to see the difference.


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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Hockey Puck & Casting Front/Side Motor Mounts   Tue May 24, 2011 11:42 am

Well, I tried this out on the wife's 98 this weekend. The front mount was fairly beat-up, and the engine would roll quite a bit. The hockey pucks worked quite well. Not too much extra vibration, but now the engine doesn't roll around. I'm very happy with the results.

I did it a little different: I used a bit of 1" steel stock, and turned a hole through it to match the bolt exactly. I would have just used some 5/8 pipe like AA, but I couldn't find any around. I figured the extra surface area of the 1" steel might add some durability to the mount. I also cut the hole in the pucks using the lathe, though it really doesn't make any difference. It would have been just as easy to drill it out. I also used a bench sander to make the two flat parts, and pressed it into the mount.

Now I'll have to look at doing the rear sometime.

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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Hockey Puck & Casting Front/Side Motor Mounts   Tue May 24, 2011 12:01 pm

3/8" pipe wink (for reference; it still doesn't make any sense to me!)

Glad to hear you like the mod. The only time I notice a bit of vibration is the very first start in the morning. It really jumps to life when I turn the key! Btw, I am really loving tight corners and hard braking after the mounts and cradle insulators. I can still remember how the engine felt rolling around up front, but that memory is fastly fading.

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'98 SC Riviera 268k miles 298 HP/370 TQ 0-60: 5.79s ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 4087 lb 20.1 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley AL104 plugs 180 t-stat FWI w/K&N 1.9:1 rockers OR pushrods LS6 valve springs SLP headers ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts MaxAir shocks Addco sway bars UMI bushings GM STB Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus SS lines Brembo slotted discs DHP tuned Aeroforce Hidden Hitch


'05 GTO 49k miles 0-60: 4.8s 16.9 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Hockey Puck & Casting Front/Side Motor Mounts   Fri Jun 17, 2011 7:25 pm

I made a rear. We'll see how it goes. I need to finish cleaning up and paint the new bracket. There's more rust than paint on my current one. What's a good paint to use that'll keep up and what about primer?


I looked at the original insert and made the hole about 1/4" lower to account for resting position under weight and make sure I have the extra hood clearance I'll need later. I figured the OEM mount pin probably comes down about 1/8" under weight. A window-welded OEM mount insert probably wouldn't fall down any measurable amount (which is actually kinda not good for me looking for hood clearance)

I need to get this thing in. I would say our speculations about the hard front mount killing a weak rear mount quickly was right.
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Hockey Puck & Casting Front/Side Motor Mounts   Fri Jun 17, 2011 10:11 pm

A good tough paint you could use would be por-15 or something similar. Pretty tough and helps stop the rusting. I painted some parts on the bottom of my car last year with something similar. Don't let it dry on your skin otherwise you have to let it wear off.

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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Hockey Puck & Casting Front/Side Motor Mounts   Sat Jun 18, 2011 12:36 am

98riv wrote:
A good tough paint you could use would be por-15 or something similar. Pretty tough and helps stop the rusting. I painted some parts on the bottom of my car last year with something similar. Don't let it dry on your skin otherwise you have to let it wear off.

I just searched it and it definitely seems like the right stuff. Thanks! Wish there was something I could pick up tomorrow
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Hockey Puck & Casting Front/Side Motor Mounts   Sat Jun 18, 2011 2:01 am

I would just use engine enamel and the accompanying primer. strong and resistant to chemicals as anything out there.they come in nice colors too!
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Hockey Puck & Casting Front/Side Motor Mounts   Sun Jul 10, 2011 12:45 pm

UPDATE: i discovered a problem with the hockey puck mod, specifically the method using pucks inside the OEM mount bracket, with internal metal sleeve. It's a minor issue that fix takes about an hour to update. However the problem gets worse with time, and could result in failure of the mount.

What I found was the pucks tend to migrate outward over a few months time, sliding on the metal sleeve, toward the outside edges of the mount bracket. Given enough time, the pucks will end up almost completely outside the bracket, resulting in a condition where they could slip out, thus providing no support for the engine and creating a metal/metal contact situation. Here is my mount after about 5k miles of the initial install:



Compare this to the intended puck alignment (pic taken prior to original install):



Luckily, the front mount is easy access and can be swapped out by supporting the front wheels on ramps and using a jack to support the engine. Here's the area I used to raise the engine during the swap. I fashioned a small 2x4 block to fit securely in the highlighted area:



Be careful when working with the mount removed. If the jack is lowered or it slips, the engine bracket could smash fingers if they are under the bracket. I managed to remove the mount without ever putting my hands in the wrong place - JUST IN CASE!

Here's the mount off the car. The pucks are almost completely outside the mount bracket! Pucks seem to be in good shape:





The solution involves using an additional pair of spacers to keep the pucks centered on the sleeve. Any durable tube material with 5/8" inside diameter will work. I used a Fluoropolymer (Teflon) rod with 5/8" I.D. (part # 8547K46). This material has high temperature rating and wears very well - worth the money, imo. I have some left over and would happily cut and mail a set for $5 shipped (I paid $20 for the 12" length, so have enough for about 3 pair).

Link: http://www.mcmaster.com/#plastics/=d470kf (choose: Tubes/Round/ID: 5/8" or 11/16"/Fluoropolymers/OD: 1"/enter length)

Note: if you used 3/8" NPT iron pipe for your sleeve, the pipe's O.D. is a tad bit larger than 5/8", so you must bore out the spacers slightly for a force fit (I did this by reaming with a 5/8" drill bit). If you prefer a loose fit, chose the 11/16" I.D. option at the above link.

Here's the mount with spacers and a pair of 1 3/16" washers assembled:







Assembly reinstalled on the car:



I'll edit the original write up with the new info. Again, if anyone needs a pair of Teflon spacers, send me a PM.

_________________
'98 SC Riviera 268k miles 298 HP/370 TQ 0-60: 5.79s ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 4087 lb 20.1 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley AL104 plugs 180 t-stat FWI w/K&N 1.9:1 rockers OR pushrods LS6 valve springs SLP headers ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts MaxAir shocks Addco sway bars UMI bushings GM STB Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus SS lines Brembo slotted discs DHP tuned Aeroforce Hidden Hitch


'05 GTO 49k miles 0-60: 4.8s 16.9 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Hockey Puck & Casting Front/Side Motor Mounts   Sun Jul 10, 2011 7:06 pm

AA wrote:
if anyone needs a pair of Teflon spacers, send me a PM.

you got a PM
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Hockey Puck & Casting Front/Side Motor Mounts   Mon Jul 11, 2011 5:54 pm

Interesting. Ill have to look at the 98. I would've machined the metal insert to have a shoulder and a threaded in shoulder on the other side if I knew this might happen.

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