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napalmpt
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PostSubject: Just a quick question or 2... maybe 3 =) Please help   Just a quick question or 2... maybe 3 =) Please help EmptyMon Mar 17, 2008 8:17 pm

I hope I posted this in the right place, if not please forgive me:

Ok, so proud 95 Riv owner here, supercharged V6. Recently I've developed a what would seem to be a "rocks in a can" type noise from the engine. I have read all the post that everyone has to graciously posted about the subject, I just have a few quick questions.

From what i can tell, from the information gathered off the site, it seems i have a worn coupler on my supercharger. Will a worn coupler make it feel as if the car is "hard starting"? I turn it over and it startes right up but at the very end of the crank stroke it seems to "catch", like its taking a moment for the gears of whatever in the supercharger to catch up with the stroke of the engine. Is this normal is the coupler is going out?

2nd. To me, when im in the car, it does sound like rocks in a tumbler, but when i open the hood and actually try to listen to wear the sound is coming from, its hard to pinpoint and sounds like a more metallic sound. Could this still be the coupler?

3 The sound usually gets quit once i hit around 1.5 to 2k rpms. Its only really noticably loud when below 1.5 k rmps, and when/if i rev the engine the sound doesnt all together disappear but gets very quiet. Is this typical of the coupler going out?

Lastly, it seems that NO ONE in my area seems to know much about my cars supercharger. I cant even seem to find the parts for it at auto zone or such. Does this mean im probably going to be dishing out tons of cash to take it to a dealership to get it fixed? Can anyone point me in a good direction for maybe ordering this part online? If I can atleast order the part and maybe point my good machanic friend in the direction of a good website explaining the procedure I might not have to take it to a dealership.

Thank you all so much for your feedback and ANY help or input is appreciated =D
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1998 Riv
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1998 Riv

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PostSubject: Re: Just a quick question or 2... maybe 3 =) Please help   Just a quick question or 2... maybe 3 =) Please help EmptyMon Mar 17, 2008 8:21 pm

Welcome, glad to see you made it over here.

While I'm not certain that the sound you are hearing is a worn coupler, someone else here can probably give a more experienced opinion.

You won't get any SC repairs or parts from your dealer. Their solution is SC replacement. ZZP has better than OEM couplers, and seals/bearings for your SC. Check them out at www.zzperformance.com under the Gran Prix section. There are writeups here and on Regalgs on SC repair work.
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Mr.Riviera
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PostSubject: Re: Just a quick question or 2... maybe 3 =) Please help   Just a quick question or 2... maybe 3 =) Please help EmptyMon Mar 17, 2008 8:26 pm

symptoms are that of a worn out coupler, like you said. when you are revving it up the rotors are putting more force on the coupler preventing it from rocking out of place, thus less noise.
how many miles are on the car?

no local store will carry parts for a supercharger. online will be the only place to get parts. even the dealership will not repair them, they just say "replace the entire unit" and charge you a fortune for stuff you dont need, like the casing.

the 95's m62 blower uses the same coupler as the never ones so pick one up from somewhere like zzp or intense for $30. you can do it yourself if you have some tools and know how. there is also a write up on here IIRC.

you will need s/c oil from the dealer too. i dont know how much the m62's hold.
also if you find you need to replace the entire supercharger (very very rare) ebay has them for like $300 complete.

Matthew

_________________
1996 with 254k miles, L32 4" FWI -> ported N* -> Ported Gen V w/3.0" Pulley, Stage 3 Phenolic I/C, ZZP FMHE, 1.84 RR, Headers and 3" pipe to mufflers, F-body brakes, and lowered on Eibachs. -RIP
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Just a quick question or 2... maybe 3 =) Please help Dsc_0110
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Mr.Riviera
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PostSubject: Re: Just a quick question or 2... maybe 3 =) Please help   Just a quick question or 2... maybe 3 =) Please help EmptyMon Mar 17, 2008 8:28 pm

drats Dave, you beat me to it! if only i didnt look over my posts 7 times before submitting lol

_________________
1996 with 254k miles, L32 4" FWI -> ported N* -> Ported Gen V w/3.0" Pulley, Stage 3 Phenolic I/C, ZZP FMHE, 1.84 RR, Headers and 3" pipe to mufflers, F-body brakes, and lowered on Eibachs. -RIP
AMG C400 White on black -daily
Just a quick question or 2... maybe 3 =) Please help Dsc_0110
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napalmpt
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PostSubject: Re: Just a quick question or 2... maybe 3 =) Please help   Just a quick question or 2... maybe 3 =) Please help EmptyMon Mar 17, 2008 8:35 pm

The car only has 65k miles on it, and when it first started doing it, I paniced. LOL I love the car and would hate to get rid of it, but I wont have the money to fix it till friday, is it safe to drive with this problem, or should i try to leave it parked and get rides to work?
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napalmpt
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PostSubject: Re: Just a quick question or 2... maybe 3 =) Please help   Just a quick question or 2... maybe 3 =) Please help EmptyMon Mar 17, 2008 8:39 pm

One more question, While i was looking up parts on the ZZ site (thanks btw, the only part i had found befoer was the COMPLETE S/C) I saw the parts for the snout bearings and the case needle bearings. Are these hard to fix or do they go bad often? I figure while im going to have the mechanic tearing this thing apart, i might as well replace them than have them go out 6 months down the road and have to do this all over again. I noticed it says you need a hydraulic press, it take it this procedure is not as easy as just replacing the coupler?
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Mr.Riviera
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PostSubject: Re: Just a quick question or 2... maybe 3 =) Please help   Just a quick question or 2... maybe 3 =) Please help EmptyMon Mar 17, 2008 8:57 pm

you do need a press to replace the snout bearing.
coupler:
http://www.zzperformance.com/grand_prix/products1.php?id=155&catid=106
installation :
http://www3.sympatico.ca/aepa/blowerinstall.html

the snout bearings do not usualy fail, but you can check them by removing the belt and moving the pulley to see if there is any play.
if it rocks back and fourth loosly (turning clockwise/counterclockwise) then you need a new coupler. and by loosly i mean play before the rotors catch and start turning.
if the pulley moves up and down or in/out then you need bearing or a new snout.

_________________
1996 with 254k miles, L32 4" FWI -> ported N* -> Ported Gen V w/3.0" Pulley, Stage 3 Phenolic I/C, ZZP FMHE, 1.84 RR, Headers and 3" pipe to mufflers, F-body brakes, and lowered on Eibachs. -RIP
AMG C400 White on black -daily
Just a quick question or 2... maybe 3 =) Please help Dsc_0110
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1998 Riv
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1998 Riv

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PostSubject: Re: Just a quick question or 2... maybe 3 =) Please help   Just a quick question or 2... maybe 3 =) Please help EmptyMon Mar 17, 2008 9:09 pm

napalmpt wrote:
...I figure while im going to have the mechanic tearing this thing apart, ......


Are you saying your mechanic is going to work on the supercharger? I'd be surprised...
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napalmpt
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PostSubject: Re: Just a quick question or 2... maybe 3 =) Please help   Just a quick question or 2... maybe 3 =) Please help EmptyMon Mar 17, 2008 9:11 pm

Thanks guys, I will have to get off work early tomorrow and try getting my car to the shop. I don't really have any tools for engine repair so wasnt able to take the belt off but it SEEMED like it turn for a bit before i felt the engagement of the rotors, cause the belt gave a little play as to clockwise and counter clockwise.. Tomorrow I will have him take the belt off and we will fully test it. Thanks for all your help.


Last edited by napalmpt on Mon Mar 17, 2008 9:14 pm; edited 1 time in total
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napalmpt
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PostSubject: Re: Just a quick question or 2... maybe 3 =) Please help   Just a quick question or 2... maybe 3 =) Please help EmptyMon Mar 17, 2008 9:13 pm

He said he's never worked on one but to bring in on in and he'd take a look. He a pretty nice guy and my family has been taking all their cars there for a while, so maybe if i can point him the right direction and show him some of the deconstruction websites he'll get the gist and be able to fix it.
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1998 Riv
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1998 Riv

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PostSubject: Re: Just a quick question or 2... maybe 3 =) Please help   Just a quick question or 2... maybe 3 =) Please help EmptyMon Mar 17, 2008 9:18 pm

The FAQ sections here have pretty good detail on disassembly/repair. I don't know if you'll find SC repair info other than on forums such as this, RegalGS.org, clubgp, etc.
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1998 Riv
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PostSubject: Re: Just a quick question or 2... maybe 3 =) Please help   Just a quick question or 2... maybe 3 =) Please help EmptyMon Mar 17, 2008 9:19 pm

Mr.Riviera wrote:
drats Dave, you beat me to it! if only i didnt look over my posts 7 times before submitting lol

jump
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deekster_caddy
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PostSubject: Re: Just a quick question or 2... maybe 3 =) Please help   Just a quick question or 2... maybe 3 =) Please help EmptyMon Mar 17, 2008 10:39 pm

Keep in mind that most of those parts are for the newer superchargers (series II), '96 and newer. The older M62 supercharger (95), if the coupler is the same that's great but I'd check with somebody from Eaton to find out if the other parts are the same as the newer M90 superchargers. (bearings and such)
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1998 Riv
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PostSubject: Re: Just a quick question or 2... maybe 3 =) Please help   Just a quick question or 2... maybe 3 =) Please help EmptyMon Mar 17, 2008 11:00 pm

Yeah, the only part I know of that interchanges is the coupler.
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AA
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PostSubject: Re: Just a quick question or 2... maybe 3 =) Please help   Just a quick question or 2... maybe 3 =) Please help EmptyTue Mar 18, 2008 8:41 am

Seems like the coupler is bad, but there could be other problems, too. The hard start issue could be something else. Did you check SC oil level?

_________________
'98 SC Riviera • 281k miles • 298 HP/370 TQ • 0-60: 5.79s • ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 • 4087 lb • 20.1 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley • AL104 plugs • 180º t-stat • FWI w/K&N • 1.9:1 rockers • OR pushrods • LS6 valve springs • SLP headers • ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts • MaxAir shocks • Addco sway bars • UMI bushings • GM STB • Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s • F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus • SS lines • Brembo slotted discs • DHP tuned • Aeroforce • Hidden Hitch

^^^ SOLD ^^^ frown

'05 GTO • 85k miles • 0-60: 4.8s • 16.9 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun


'70 Olds Ninety-Eight Holiday Coupe • 116k miles • 455 Rocket V8
Because cool


'95 Celica • 152k miles • 0-60: yes
Because free
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Mr.Riviera
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Mr.Riviera

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PostSubject: Re: Just a quick question or 2... maybe 3 =) Please help   Just a quick question or 2... maybe 3 =) Please help EmptyTue Mar 18, 2008 10:37 am

i think the M62's are sealed units. i dont believe there is a plug to check the level on those.
but that's just all the more reason to get that coupler changed and new oil in there!

Aaron is right though, hard starts are another problem not related to a s/c coupler. have you had any SEL?

_________________
1996 with 254k miles, L32 4" FWI -> ported N* -> Ported Gen V w/3.0" Pulley, Stage 3 Phenolic I/C, ZZP FMHE, 1.84 RR, Headers and 3" pipe to mufflers, F-body brakes, and lowered on Eibachs. -RIP
AMG C400 White on black -daily
Just a quick question or 2... maybe 3 =) Please help Dsc_0110
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1998 Riv
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1998 Riv

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PostSubject: Re: Just a quick question or 2... maybe 3 =) Please help   Just a quick question or 2... maybe 3 =) Please help EmptyTue Mar 18, 2008 11:09 am

The M62 has a fill plug, just not as easy to spot. Been discussed before, but I don't recall the specific location.
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napalmpt
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PostSubject: Re: Just a quick question or 2... maybe 3 =) Please help   Just a quick question or 2... maybe 3 =) Please help EmptyTue Mar 18, 2008 8:13 pm

Mr.Riviera wrote:
i think the M62's are sealed units. i dont believe there is a plug to check the level on those.
but that's just all the more reason to get that coupler changed and new oil in there!

Aaron is right though, hard starts are another problem not related to a s/c coupler. have you had any SEL?

Well its not your typical hard start where the car wont turn over, it starts right up, but it seems to "catch" at the end of the starter ignition. It continues to run with no hesitation or anything. Don't mean to seem stupid, but what is SEL?
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palermocorey90
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PostSubject: Re: Just a quick question or 2... maybe 3 =) Please help   Just a quick question or 2... maybe 3 =) Please help EmptyTue Mar 18, 2008 8:20 pm

1998 Riv wrote:
The M62 has a fill plug, just not as easy to spot. Been discussed before, but I don't recall the specific location.

its on the back side of the snout, and its a PITA to get loose
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Mr.Riviera
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Mr.Riviera

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PostSubject: Re: Just a quick question or 2... maybe 3 =) Please help   Just a quick question or 2... maybe 3 =) Please help EmptyTue Mar 18, 2008 8:55 pm

SEL=service engine light, also refered to as CEL, CES, dummy light, SES, and maybe a few others too.
so has the "check engine soon" light come on?

_________________
1996 with 254k miles, L32 4" FWI -> ported N* -> Ported Gen V w/3.0" Pulley, Stage 3 Phenolic I/C, ZZP FMHE, 1.84 RR, Headers and 3" pipe to mufflers, F-body brakes, and lowered on Eibachs. -RIP
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Just a quick question or 2... maybe 3 =) Please help Dsc_0110
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AA
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Just a quick question or 2... maybe 3 =) Please help Empty
PostSubject: Re: Just a quick question or 2... maybe 3 =) Please help   Just a quick question or 2... maybe 3 =) Please help EmptyTue Mar 18, 2008 10:05 pm

"SES light" is the technically correct term for our cars.

_________________
'98 SC Riviera • 281k miles • 298 HP/370 TQ • 0-60: 5.79s • ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 • 4087 lb • 20.1 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley • AL104 plugs • 180º t-stat • FWI w/K&N • 1.9:1 rockers • OR pushrods • LS6 valve springs • SLP headers • ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts • MaxAir shocks • Addco sway bars • UMI bushings • GM STB • Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s • F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus • SS lines • Brembo slotted discs • DHP tuned • Aeroforce • Hidden Hitch

^^^ SOLD ^^^ frown

'05 GTO • 85k miles • 0-60: 4.8s • 16.9 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun


'70 Olds Ninety-Eight Holiday Coupe • 116k miles • 455 Rocket V8
Because cool


'95 Celica • 152k miles • 0-60: yes
Because free
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napalmpt
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PostSubject: Re: Just a quick question or 2... maybe 3 =) Please help   Just a quick question or 2... maybe 3 =) Please help EmptyThu Mar 20, 2008 7:06 pm

Nope, no service light at all. car runs fine, once its started. Well cept from the extra noise.
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napalmpt
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PostSubject: Re: Just a quick question or 2... maybe 3 =) Please help   Just a quick question or 2... maybe 3 =) Please help EmptySun Mar 23, 2008 11:16 am

Ok, I've decided that im going to do the repairs myself. My coupler is on the way from ZZPerformance right now and should be arriving tomorrow. YAY PARTY! Now I have scoured the forums, all the ones I could find any way and I cant for the life of me find a write up for an m62 on a 95 Riv. They all seem to be about the M90. Tons of them for the m90, none for the m62. Does ANYONE know of where i can find a write up or even just some general directions for replacing the coupler on a 95 Riv? I know that once i get the nose cone off its pretty much all the same but I also know that the belts are placed differently and there are different components with the engine involved than with a 96. I know it probably not a huge difference but I don't want to take a chance of trying to take things apart and wind up f***ing something up.
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albertj
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PostSubject: Re: Just a quick question or 2... maybe 3 =) Please help   Just a quick question or 2... maybe 3 =) Please help EmptySun Mar 23, 2008 1:18 pm

Napalmpt - might try asking a dealer if you can copy the pages formthe factory manual for the m62. The '95 riv is old enough that a dealer might not object if you ask right. Also, you may find that the dealer has or knows where to find a manual set you can get for cheap.

Regarding taking the chance that you take things apart and mess them up, just use/buy a digital camera and take pictures as you go so you can get the parts back right.

Albertj
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napalmpt
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PostSubject: Re: Just a quick question or 2... maybe 3 =) Please help   Just a quick question or 2... maybe 3 =) Please help EmptyWed Mar 26, 2008 5:43 am

ok quick question on this.... i dont think its the coupler from the sc making that noise after all. can anyone explain to me what it would sound like if the tensioner pully would be going out? maybe a loose bearing ? it feels like if i actually put my finger on the tensioner pully, that it is the part that is rattling...
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