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 FAQ: Which Spark Plugs & Ignition Wires should I use?

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Dj Brady
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Which Spark Plugs & Ignition Wires should I use?   Thu May 01, 2008 7:39 am

Okay. that's what I thought, thanks for the heads up.


*doh* will go edit my sig now.
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Which Spark Plugs & Ignition Wires should I use?   Thu May 01, 2008 9:24 am

Still, having a 180 T-stat is far better than stock, even if you don't have the ability to tune the fan settings. Put it in there before summer hits. Even a completely stock engine should have a 180 unit, all year round, imo.

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'98 SC Riviera 268k miles 298 HP/370 TQ 0-60: 5.79s ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 4087 lb 20.1 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley AL104 plugs 180 t-stat FWI w/K&N 1.9:1 rockers OR pushrods LS6 valve springs SLP headers ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts MaxAir shocks Addco sway bars UMI bushings GM STB Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus SS lines Brembo slotted discs DHP tuned Aeroforce Hidden Hitch


'05 GTO 49k miles 0-60: 4.8s 16.9 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Which Spark Plugs & Ignition Wires should I use?   Thu May 01, 2008 10:35 am

For sure, better a 180 w/o mods than a stock t-stat.
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Which Spark Plugs & Ignition Wires should I use?   Thu May 01, 2008 10:54 am

A 180 will keep the car at 180ish when moving and air is flowing through the radiator. The guys are talking about fans, which you'll notice the difference on your temp gauge (do Rivs have one?) when you hit traffic or aren't on the move.

I have heard of a few people going back to a range warmer plug in the winter. Although it is usually accompanied by a larger pulley to compensate for the denser air.
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Which Spark Plugs & Ignition Wires should I use?   Thu May 01, 2008 11:05 am

BillBoost37 wrote:
.....you'll notice the difference on your temp gauge (do Rivs have one?) ....

Yep, we have a real temp gauge.
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Which Spark Plugs & Ignition Wires should I use?   Thu May 01, 2008 3:35 pm

so when do you need to bump down to 103's?
Does anyone on here(the more heavily modded guys) use these?
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Which Spark Plugs & Ignition Wires should I use?   Thu May 01, 2008 3:45 pm

Over 12 lbs of boost. Unless you race all the time, and have a seriously small SC pulley, it's not needed, imo. I'm right on the edge, might try them out and see what happens.

_________________
'98 SC Riviera 268k miles 298 HP/370 TQ 0-60: 5.79s ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 4087 lb 20.1 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley AL104 plugs 180 t-stat FWI w/K&N 1.9:1 rockers OR pushrods LS6 valve springs SLP headers ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts MaxAir shocks Addco sway bars UMI bushings GM STB Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus SS lines Brembo slotted discs DHP tuned Aeroforce Hidden Hitch


'05 GTO 49k miles 0-60: 4.8s 16.9 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Which Spark Plugs & Ignition Wires should I use?   Thu May 01, 2008 10:50 pm

I get plenty of heat in the winter from a 180 tstat, even in northern vermont mid winter at -20F. No problem warming the car up.

I recommend against a drilled thermostat.
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Which Spark Plugs & Ignition Wires should I use?   Thu May 01, 2008 11:38 pm

Quote :
so when do you need to bump down to 103's?
Does anyone on here(the more heavily modded guys) use these?

I just went down to the 103's from the 104's but I will be running pretty heavy mods which I am installing now. 104's worked excellent with me with the GenV and 3.4" pulley.
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Which Spark Plugs & Ignition Wires should I use?   Fri May 02, 2008 1:26 am

ewolfe0050 wrote:
Quote :
so when do you need to bump down to 103's?
Does anyone on here(the more heavily modded guys) use these?

I just went down to the 103's from the 104's but I will be running pretty heavy mods which I am installing now. 104's worked excellent with me with the GenV and 3.4" pulley.
this is more what I was thinking. I probably wont bother until I get the larger injectors or even later then that.
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Which Spark Plugs & Ignition Wires should I use?   Mon May 05, 2008 4:11 pm

hey guys.. i need some ac delco spark plug wires.. my buick dealership is asking for $80.. anyone know a site where i can get them cheaper.... what is the ac delco part number for oem wires?
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Which Spark Plugs & Ignition Wires should I use?   Mon May 05, 2008 10:55 pm

GM: 12173547
AC Delco: 746R

Not sure if that is correct for all 95-99, but was for my 98.

Check www.rockauto.com

Their search function will show you what options they offer.

www.gmpartsdirect.com is an option also.

OR, you could always check the Part Numbers thread for this info.
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PostSubject: Direct Hit   Sat Jun 21, 2008 8:48 am

Has anybody tried these? Worth the money??

http://www.directhits.com
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Which Spark Plugs & Ignition Wires should I use?   Sat Jun 21, 2008 9:43 am

I've never seen a spark plug that ever proved to me it was worth more than a standard plug. Remember 'Split Fire'? Where are they now?

Burned fuel is burned fuel. Heat range, copper or platinum or titaniawhatsit core, those are the things that make a difference. Copper plugs draws heat away faster but needs occasional regapping, however it wins the price check every time.

Autolite 104s or 605s for our cars depending on your mods.

I'm actually going to change back to a 195 thermostat and 605 plugs to bring my fuel efficiency back up some.
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Which Spark Plugs & Ignition Wires should I use?   Sat Jun 21, 2008 10:01 am

thanks for your input...you just saved me $200.00+

....I'll have to buy you a beer.
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Which Spark Plugs & Ignition Wires should I use?   Sat Jun 21, 2008 7:56 pm

Montaniera wrote:
Has anybody tried these? Worth the money??

No, and no.

Interesting reading, though. It almost makes me curious - do they work? But realizing that energy cannot be created nor destroyed, I have to ask: where does the extra energy come from? DirectHits claims that "by attaching to
a spark plug, the discharge current of the spark is increased by 10,000
times." What this really means is, DirectHits takes all the energy going through your plug, stores it in a capacitor, and discharges it during a time period 1/10,000 smaller. It's the same energy, just focused in a much shorter spark time. Similar to how a stiffening capacitor provides instantaneous power to an amplifier.

But who says a faster spark ignites fuel more efficiently than a slower one? I really don't know if it makes a difference with our engines. Maybe it does. Is it worth the price to find out? Not to me. I think my fuel is igniting just fine with a "slow" spark lasting 30 millions of a second.

_________________
'98 SC Riviera 268k miles 298 HP/370 TQ 0-60: 5.79s ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 4087 lb 20.1 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley AL104 plugs 180 t-stat FWI w/K&N 1.9:1 rockers OR pushrods LS6 valve springs SLP headers ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts MaxAir shocks Addco sway bars UMI bushings GM STB Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus SS lines Brembo slotted discs DHP tuned Aeroforce Hidden Hitch


'05 GTO 49k miles 0-60: 4.8s 16.9 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Which Spark Plugs & Ignition Wires should I use?   Sun Jun 22, 2008 1:06 am

"CAPACITOR" EFFECT WIRES with grounded metal braiding over jacket

The most notable of exaggerated claims for ignition wires are made by Nology, a manufacturer of ignition wires promoted as "the only spark plug wires with built-in capacitor." Nology's "HotWires" (called "Plasma Leads" in the UK) consist of unsuppressed solid metal or spiral conductor ignition wires over which braided metal sleeves are partially fitted. The braided metal sleeves are grounded via straps formed from part of the braiding. Insulating covers are fitted over the braided metal sleeves. These wires are well constructed. For whatever reason, Nology specifies that non-resistor spark plugs need to be used with their "HotWires." In a demonstration, the use of resistor plugs with "HotWires" will nullify the visual effect of the brighter spark.

Ignition wires with grounded braided metal sleeves over the cable have come and gone all over the world for (at least) the last 30 years, and similar wires were used over 20 years ago by a few car makers to solve cross-firing problems on early fuel injected engines and RFI problems on fiberglass bodied cars only to find other problems were created. The recent Circle Track Magazine (USA, May, 1996 issue) test showed Nology "HotWires" produced no additional horsepower (the test actually showed a 10 horsepower decrease when compared to stock carbon conductor wires).

The perceived effect a brighter spark, conducted by an ignition wire, encased or partially encased in a braided metal sleeve (shield) grounded to the engine, jumping across a huge free-air gap (which bears no relationship to the spark needed to fire the variable air/fuel mixture under pressure in a combustion chamber) is continually being re-discovered and cleverly demonstrated by marketers who convince themselves there's monetary value in such a bright spark, and all sorts of wild, completely un-provable claims are made for this phenomena.

Like many in the past, Nology cleverly demonstrates a brighter free-air spark containing useless flash-over created by the crude "capacitor" (effect) of this style of wire. In reality, the bright spark has no more useful energy to fire a variable compressed air/fuel mixture than the clean spark you would see in a similar demonstration using any good carbon conductor wire. What is happening in such a demonstration is the coil output is being unnecessarily boosted to additionally supply spark energy that is induced (and wasted) into the grounded braided metal sleeve around the ignition wire's jacket. To test the validity of this statement, ask the Nology demonstrator to disconnect the ground strap and observe just how much energy is sparking to ground.

Claims by Nology of their "HotWires" creating sparks that are "300 times more powerful," reaching temperatures of "100,000 to 150,000 degrees F" (more than enough to melt spark plug electrodes), spark durations of "4 billionths of a second" (spark duration is controlled by the ignition system itself) and currents of "1,000 amperes" magically evolving in "capacitors" allegedly "built-in" to the ignition wires are as ridiculous as the data and the depiction of sparks in photographs used in advertising material and the price asked for these wires! Most stock ignition primaries are regulated to 6 amperes and the most powerful race ignition to no more than 40 amperes at 12,000 RPM.

It is common knowledge amongst automotive electrical engineers that it is unwise to use ignition wires fitted with grounded braided metal sleeves fitted over ignition cable jackets on an automobile engine. This type of ignition wires forces its cable jackets to become an unsuitable dielectric for a crude capacitor (effect) between the conductor and the braided metal sleeves. While the wires function normally when first fitted, the cable jackets soon break down as a dielectric, and progressively more spark energy is induced from the conductors (though the cable jackets) into the grounded metal sleeves, causing the ignition coil to unnecessarily output more energy to fire both the spark plug gaps and the additional energy lost via the braided metal sleeves. Often this situation leads to ignition coil and control unit overload failures. It should be noted that it is dangerous to use this style of wires if not grounded to the engine with grounding straps, as the outside of the braided cables will be alive with thousands of volts wanting to ground-out to anything (or anybody) nearby.

Unless you are prepared to accept poorly suppressed ignition wires that fail sooner than any other type of ignition wires and stretch your ignition system to the limit, and have an engine with no electronic management system and/or exhaust emission controls, it's best not to be influenced by the exaggerated claims, and some vested-interest journalists', resellers' and installers' perception an engine has more power after Nology wires are fitted. Often, after replacing deteriorated wires, any new ignition wires make an engine run better.
OTHER DEVICES CLAIMING TO INCREASE SPARKS:

Never be fooled by any device that is fitted between the ignition coil and the distributor, and/or distributor and the spark plugs (sometimes in place of ignition wires) for which claims of increased power, multiple sparks, and better fuel economy are made. These devices have come and gone over the last 50 years, and usually consists of a sealed container in which the spark is forced to jump an additional gap or is partially induced to ground on its way to the spark plug gap. These devices can also be cleverly demonstrated to produce sparks the human eye perceives as being "more powerful." The only "increase" a gullible consumer can expect from these devices is an undesirable increase in load on their vehicle's ignition system.

taken from magnecor's website.
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Which Spark Plugs & Ignition Wires should I use?   Sun Jun 22, 2008 12:44 pm

god, those split-fire plugs suck ballz, i melted the shit out of them.
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Which Spark Plugs & Ignition Wires should I use?   Sun Jun 22, 2008 1:39 pm

I definetly need to change my plugs...They have never been changed for the life of the car...I was going to buy accel coils and wires and noticed they have a replacement for AL104....but its their U-Groove design..should I stay away from that as well and just buy the Al's?
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Which Spark Plugs & Ignition Wires should I use?   Sun Jun 22, 2008 2:09 pm

I would just get the AL104s. Very proven, reliable design that works well in our cars. $10 and 30 mins install time = about 20k trouble-free miles, probably a lot more if you tried. Personally, I like having fresh plugs each year.

_________________
'98 SC Riviera 268k miles 298 HP/370 TQ 0-60: 5.79s ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 4087 lb 20.1 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley AL104 plugs 180 t-stat FWI w/K&N 1.9:1 rockers OR pushrods LS6 valve springs SLP headers ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts MaxAir shocks Addco sway bars UMI bushings GM STB Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus SS lines Brembo slotted discs DHP tuned Aeroforce Hidden Hitch


'05 GTO 49k miles 0-60: 4.8s 16.9 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Which Spark Plugs & Ignition Wires should I use?   Sun Jun 22, 2008 2:15 pm

Unmodified, run AL605's. Mildly modded, run AL104's.
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Which Spark Plugs & Ignition Wires should I use?   Sun Jun 22, 2008 2:22 pm

I've been thinking about this lately, Dave. I think 104s would be fine in a stock car as long as you drive the car spirited. Jack the R took his 104s out after a few thousand miles with no fouling at all. And looking at INTENSE's recommendation of using 605s for under 6 lbs of boost, and 104s for 6-12 PSI, I think it can go either way. Driver habits are key.

_________________
'98 SC Riviera 268k miles 298 HP/370 TQ 0-60: 5.79s ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 4087 lb 20.1 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley AL104 plugs 180 t-stat FWI w/K&N 1.9:1 rockers OR pushrods LS6 valve springs SLP headers ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts MaxAir shocks Addco sway bars UMI bushings GM STB Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus SS lines Brembo slotted discs DHP tuned Aeroforce Hidden Hitch


'05 GTO 49k miles 0-60: 4.8s 16.9 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Which Spark Plugs & Ignition Wires should I use?   Sun Jun 22, 2008 2:25 pm

....right......so the 104's it is.....and drive like an old man through a crowded farmers market.....got it.
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Which Spark Plugs & Ignition Wires should I use?   Sun Jun 22, 2008 2:46 pm

Either would be okay, imo. Dave is right, though. We used to recommend 605s for stock cars. My suggestion is: it depends on whether you will be pushing the car in boost a lot. With gas as high as it is, it may very well make sense to use the 605s if you'll be doing a lot of open cruising in flat terrain.

Worst case scenario - the car becomes hard to start in a year or two, so replace the fouled plugs. Only $10.

_________________
'98 SC Riviera 268k miles 298 HP/370 TQ 0-60: 5.79s ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 4087 lb 20.1 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley AL104 plugs 180 t-stat FWI w/K&N 1.9:1 rockers OR pushrods LS6 valve springs SLP headers ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts MaxAir shocks Addco sway bars UMI bushings GM STB Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus SS lines Brembo slotted discs DHP tuned Aeroforce Hidden Hitch


'05 GTO 49k miles 0-60: 4.8s 16.9 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun
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http://www.cardomain.com/ride/657082/4
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Which Spark Plugs & Ignition Wires should I use?   Sun Jun 22, 2008 10:36 pm

Montaniera wrote:
I was going to buy accel coils and wires

skip the accel coils
if you're set on getting new coils, get OEM or MSD
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