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 Write-Up: SS Braided Fuel Lines

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BillBoost37
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PostSubject: Write-Up: SS Braided Fuel Lines   Thu May 08, 2008 12:55 pm

Got all the parts from Summit. they seemed to have the best prices.
To go from hard metal lines to fuel rails.
EAR-165006ERL Fitting, -6 AN Male to 3/8 in. Tube, Aluminum, Red/Blue, Each 1 $9.25
EAR-165056ERL Fitting, -6 AN Male to 5/16 in. Tube, Aluminum, Red/Blue, Each 1 $9.25
EAR-981506ERL Fitting, Coupler, Straight, Male -6 AN to Male -6 AN, Aluminum, Blue, Each 2 $5.90
SUM-220687 Fitting, Hose End, 90 Degree, -6 AN Hose to Female -6 AN, Aluminum, Red/Blue Anodized, Each 2 $25.90
SUM-220690 Fitting, Hose End, Straight, -6 AN Hose to Female -6 AN, Aluminum, Red/Blue Anodized, Each 2 $9.76
SUM-230610 Hose, Braided Stainless Steel, -6 AN, 10 ft. Length, Each 1 $36.95
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Parts Total: $97.01
Handling Charge: $9.75

Total Order: $106.76
Total amount charged at this time: $106.76

I should have looked under my hood a little more and then I would have ordered one fitting differently. A straight piece instead of a bend for the supply line. Then the regulator would clear the line to the rail for supply. Either way.. it's fairly easy to do and looks amazing.

From this




To this




Here's the cubby behind the strut that is enclosed by the AC drier


A couple hose connections



Cut a line or two


In the 96-99 B'ville the lines run back to the firewall, to the passenger side behind the strut (no f'n room there) and that is where they convert to metal lines. Unclipping a line holder at the back and lower area of the engine bay I was able to get enough movement to gently pull the lines out from behind the strut one at a time. This gave me enough room to cut the old plastic off, attached the tube to AN fittings and hook them to the braided line which I ran along the firewall before connecting to the new fittings. Pushed the line back in and pulled the excess SS line back toward the rails. Made the rail connections and hoped for the best when I pressurized it the first time.

No leaks and pressure is right where it was before. Only difference is no nylon lines to possibly kink.

Then the plug wires fell off


And due to Wylie Coyote ordering some plug wires from Acme Supply ... I was able to get them cheap off him after he crashed yet again.
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AA
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: SS Braided Fuel Lines   Thu May 08, 2008 1:01 pm

Very nice install, and good info Bill! I am thinking about doing something like this. I want to be able to play with E85.

_________________
'98 SC Riviera 268k miles 298 HP/370 TQ 0-60: 5.79s ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 4087 lb 20.1 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley AL104 plugs 180 t-stat FWI w/K&N 1.9:1 rockers OR pushrods LS6 valve springs SLP headers ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts MaxAir shocks Addco sway bars UMI bushings GM STB Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus SS lines Brembo slotted discs DHP tuned Aeroforce Hidden Hitch


'05 GTO 49k miles 0-60: 4.8s 16.9 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun
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palermocorey90
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: SS Braided Fuel Lines   Thu May 08, 2008 6:32 pm

want to send me the parts so i can try to do it
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T Riley
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: SS Braided Fuel Lines   Thu May 08, 2008 10:53 pm

AA wrote:
Very nice install, and good info Bill! I am thinking about doing something like this. I want to be able to play with E85.

Needing fuel lines for E85 is a myth........ yes it SHOULD corrode the lines........ but it has NEVER done it to ANY Grand Prix or Regal that has changed to E85.... i read that on Clubgp.com
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albertj
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: SS Braided Fuel Lines   Sat May 10, 2008 8:38 am

Wow! The "kit" answer to how to get rid of the nylon under-hood fuel pipes!

Albertj
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AA
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: SS Braided Fuel Lines   Sat May 10, 2008 4:42 pm

Quote :
Needing fuel lines for E85 is a myth........ yes it SHOULD corrode the lines........ but it has NEVER done it to ANY Grand Prix or Regal that has changed to E85.... i read that on Clubgp.com

First, don't believe everything you see at ClubGP. I remember reading a thread there about defective INTENSE roller rockers that were supposed to destroy your engine. I've had those exact parts in my engine for 85k miles.

Even if "several" L67-powered cars have done the conversion with no adverse effects, this doesn't mean there is absolutely no risk. Here is a portion of an E85 article from Wikipedia:

"In addition to corrosion, there is also a risk of increased engine wear for non-FFV engines that are not specifically designed for operation on high levels (i.e., for greater than 10%) of ethanol. The risk primarily comes in the rare event that the E85 fuel ever becomes contaminated with water.

For ethanol contaminated with larger amounts of water (i.e., approximately 11% water, 89% ethanol, equivalent to 178 proof ethanol), considerable engine wear will occur, especially during times while the engine is heating up to normal operating temperatures. For example, just after starting the engine, low temperature partial combustion of the water-contaminated ethanol mixture takes place and causes engine wear. This wear, caused by water-contaminated E85, is the result of the combustion process of ethanol, water, and gasoline producing considerable amounts of formic acid (HCOOH, also known as methanoic acid and sometimes written as CH2O2).

Engines specifically designed for FFVs employ soft nitride coatings on their internal metal parts to provide resistance to formic acid wear in the event of water contamination of E85 fuel. Also, the use of lubricant oil (motor oil) containing an acid neutralizer is necessary to prevent the damage of oil-lubricated engine parts in the event of water contamination of fuel. Such lubricant oil was required by at least one manufacturer of FFVs (Chrysler). This requirement was later removed.

The primary method used to convert non-fuel-injected cars is two-fold. First, any non-compatible rubber parts and gaskets and terne gas tanks and terne fuel lines are replaced."


For $100, It's good insurance, just in case the Wiki is right, and ClubGP is wrong. Besides, our plastic lines and rubber O-rings have been the suspected as the cause of gasoline leaks/engine fires anyway. I'd rather upgrade if running the extra-corrosive E85. I'll take my chances with the tank, but the possibility of leaks under the hood must be minimalized.

_________________
'98 SC Riviera 268k miles 298 HP/370 TQ 0-60: 5.79s ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 4087 lb 20.1 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley AL104 plugs 180 t-stat FWI w/K&N 1.9:1 rockers OR pushrods LS6 valve springs SLP headers ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts MaxAir shocks Addco sway bars UMI bushings GM STB Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus SS lines Brembo slotted discs DHP tuned Aeroforce Hidden Hitch


'05 GTO 49k miles 0-60: 4.8s 16.9 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun
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TType_Riviera
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: SS Braided Fuel Lines   Sat May 10, 2008 10:24 pm

see my link in the other thread for full proof..with engine tear down pics...
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T Riley
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: SS Braided Fuel Lines   Sat May 10, 2008 11:28 pm

TType_Riviera wrote:
see my link in the other thread for full proof..with engine tear down pics...

E85 is like a cute little bunny.... its not gonna hurt anything....... just make your riv silly fast cool
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BillBoost37
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: SS Braided Fuel Lines   Mon May 12, 2008 8:09 am

Corey.. wish I could. I'll say they are darn nice looking and now with 300+ miles on them are 100% tested in my book. All is well and the car is happy.

I came across this stuff via a GP buddy and another Bonne buddy's thread on ClubGP. If you search Swagelok you should find the thread.
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AA
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: SS Braided Fuel Lines   Fri Jun 06, 2008 9:55 pm

I'm planning to do something similar to Bill's set-up, but instead using ZZP's modified stock fuel rail. Is there a way to use SS lines with ZZP's rail? Can anyone recommend a good under-hood fuel pressure gage (with memory for WOT runs) that I can install permanently inline with this rail?

Thanks in advance for your help. Here's the ZZP modified rail:


_________________
'98 SC Riviera 268k miles 298 HP/370 TQ 0-60: 5.79s ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 4087 lb 20.1 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley AL104 plugs 180 t-stat FWI w/K&N 1.9:1 rockers OR pushrods LS6 valve springs SLP headers ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts MaxAir shocks Addco sway bars UMI bushings GM STB Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus SS lines Brembo slotted discs DHP tuned Aeroforce Hidden Hitch


'05 GTO 49k miles 0-60: 4.8s 16.9 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun
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TType_Riviera
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: SS Braided Fuel Lines   Fri Jun 06, 2008 10:08 pm

swagelock stuff is cool...expensive though....used them for custom a/c lines before...
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BillBoost37
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: SS Braided Fuel Lines   Tue Jun 10, 2008 10:26 am

You sure can Aaron.

BillBoost37 wrote:
General Info
Supply line is 3/8" or -6AN
Return line is 5/16" or -5AN

Quote :
With mine I adapted the return line to 3/8" (-6AN) so I would be able to use all the same fittings seeing as 5/16" (-5AN) size fittings are more difficult to get a hold of

Connectors to keep the stock type fuel rails
Russel 3/8 Connector
Russel 5/16 Connector

The the fittings for the other side (assuming the plastic fuel line is heated and shrunk to the metal line w/o any clips.
3/8 Earl -6an fitting to connect to metal line
3/8 Earl -6an fitting to connect to metal line

I think this fitting will screw into the filter and head back to the tank
Screw on connector

A different connector suggestion
Swagelok SS-600-6-6an

Hose 10' braided rated for 300F and 1,000psi
10' Summit braided hose
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AA
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: SS Braided Fuel Lines   Sat Sep 06, 2008 2:17 pm

Thanks, Bill. A couple of questions for you:

Do you think AN-6 is needed, or would AN-4 hose be sufficient?

The Swagelock SS option - would that best be suited for tapping into the stock metal lines? I plan to cut off the stock rail connectors, so I want to just tap in to the raw rail. Would the Swagelocks work for this? Or, does the Earl's tube adapters make more sense? Is there a difference between the two other than materials/cost?

_________________
'98 SC Riviera 268k miles 298 HP/370 TQ 0-60: 5.79s ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 4087 lb 20.1 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley AL104 plugs 180 t-stat FWI w/K&N 1.9:1 rockers OR pushrods LS6 valve springs SLP headers ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts MaxAir shocks Addco sway bars UMI bushings GM STB Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus SS lines Brembo slotted discs DHP tuned Aeroforce Hidden Hitch


'05 GTO 49k miles 0-60: 4.8s 16.9 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun
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Chicken
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: SS Braided Fuel Lines   Sat Sep 06, 2008 2:58 pm

I can't wait to get to Montana so I can start modding again.....
34 more days.....
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BillBoost37
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: SS Braided Fuel Lines   Thu Sep 11, 2008 8:44 am

Sorry for the delay.... home projects etc.

AN6 is what most aftermarket rails use for fittings and they were the easiest/most referenced parts by those that forged the path before me. I would probably stick to it in the future because of the hose sizing. It's basically the 3/8" line that our stock supply uses.

Swagelok vs Earls, my only experience was with Earl's. They worked good and I've had no leaking issues.
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: SS Braided Fuel Lines   Mon Aug 06, 2012 2:19 am

I've sprung a leak on my driverside metal fuel lines. THe line that runs by the second subframe bushing.. THey were pretty rusty.. Trying to think of what to do
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: SS Braided Fuel Lines   Mon Aug 06, 2012 9:46 am

Why not replace the line from the fuel filter to the front with stainless ones?
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: SS Braided Fuel Lines   Mon Aug 06, 2012 11:36 am

That sounds like the best way to do it. I already had used a Dorman repair kit for the connection to the Fuel Filter. I assume I can get the right fittings or do I need to order the lines made already? I'm not familiar with flaring lines and such but just about everything else..
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: SS Braided Fuel Lines   Tue Aug 07, 2012 1:59 am

You should be able to get fittings to do it. Then just run a SS line.
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: SS Braided Fuel Lines   Fri Apr 10, 2015 3:21 am

Hey guys would these an-6 fittings connect to the stock fuel rail connector?


http://www.ebay.com/itm/6-AN-Male-to-3-8-Female-Quick-Connect-Fuel-Rail-Line-Adapter-/181684657769?hash=item2a4d3fde69&vxp=mtr

http://www.ebay.com/itm/6-AN6-MALE-to-5-16-FEMALE-QUICK-CONNECT-FUEL-RAIL-LINE-FITTING-ADAPTER-/261805245404?hash=item3cf4cf03dc&vxp=mtr
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