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 FAQ: Water / Alcohol / Methanol Injection?

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Rickw
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Water / Alcohol / Methanol Injection?   Sat Mar 14, 2009 9:25 pm

Have you installed these kits on other cars.? If so, what kind of results did you get.
How high do you increase boost safely with Water/Methanol on the 3800 with Eaton SC. I've heard from the guys at Snow Performance to increase boost to 12-14 lbs and change spark plugs back to Stock Heat Range.? Do you agree.?
What about the negative effects of spraying water/meth on the SC rotors if any.?
Can you get me a copy of the installation instructions to review. they are not available on line, unless I missed something. Maybe you could email them to me??
Thanks,
Rick
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Water / Alcohol / Methanol Injection?   Sat Mar 14, 2009 10:10 pm

The rotors would not be damaged by the water or methanol. The coating is teflon, chemical resistant to almost everything. The problem is if the water/alcohol is injected in a high pressure jet it will peal the coating off like a pressure washer. If the nozzle creates a mist it will not damage the coating. The same rotors are used on the draw-through carb V8 kits from magnuson.
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mrod7510
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Water / Alcohol / Methanol Injection?   Sat Mar 14, 2009 11:17 pm

well okay, yes i have installed this item on many applications. Not a Riv or 3800 but same result will be aquired. Mainly for us at the shop we use a meth kit for.... Cooler temps.. more boost means hotter temps. That is my main goal as well with my Riv. Hot blower, no power>> as for me i will be leaving my 104s in with a 3.1 pulley and tune. my 3.4 pulley makes 10LBS exact.. cannot answer all your questions because i have not installed my pulley nor have i dyno tuned it yet. When i do ill have all the goodies for ya like air fuels across the board, boost, KR,if any and a run before and after the meth. I can tell you that there is 20 hp difference between my blower at operation temp and letting my car sit over night and dyno it when i walk in the door.
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Rickw
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Water / Alcohol / Methanol Injection?   Sun May 10, 2009 7:08 pm

Hey mrod7510,
Do you have any info on your meth kit install yet?
And, what tuning software are you using for the Riv.?
Thanks
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Rickw
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Water / Alcohol / Methanol Injection?   Sat Oct 17, 2009 5:18 pm

I was under the impression that Water-Meth injection was OK with the GEN V because of the coated rotors.
Has been something I've been looking into off and on for month's.
In case I decide to add water-meth when and if I install the Gen V that I have.

Sorry, Travis - I keep posting in YOUR thread. And off topic to boot.
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AA
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Water / Alcohol / Methanol Injection?   Sat Oct 17, 2009 5:51 pm

Our Gen III blowers have the coating as well. As far as I have read, the coating is what helps the M90 be as efficient as it is, and it's the fear of damaging it that makes water/alcohol injection questionable.

Australian performance site with info on the subject: http://v6supercharged.com.au/workshop.asp?ProjectID=8

_________________
'98 SC Riviera 268k miles 298 HP/370 TQ 0-60: 5.79s ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 4087 lb 20.1 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley AL104 plugs 180 t-stat FWI w/K&N 1.9:1 rockers OR pushrods LS6 valve springs SLP headers ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts MaxAir shocks Addco sway bars UMI bushings GM STB Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus SS lines Brembo slotted discs DHP tuned Aeroforce Hidden Hitch


'05 GTO 49k miles 0-60: 4.8s 16.9 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
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Rickw
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Water / Alcohol / Methanol Injection?   Sat Oct 17, 2009 6:32 pm

Thanks for that info.
I guess i was hoping Water-Methanol Injection would work as it is soo much easier and less expensive even with the new computer controllers that the water-meth industry has come out with.
Better left with the high compression naturally aspirated or centrifugal and turbo chargers.
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AA
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Water / Alcohol / Methanol Injection?   Sat Oct 17, 2009 7:18 pm

If we could somehow figure out a way to inject into the manifold, after the blower, I could see this working. Would require a lot of drilling and plumbing, but maybe worth it?

_________________
'98 SC Riviera 268k miles 298 HP/370 TQ 0-60: 5.79s ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 4087 lb 20.1 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley AL104 plugs 180 t-stat FWI w/K&N 1.9:1 rockers OR pushrods LS6 valve springs SLP headers ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts MaxAir shocks Addco sway bars UMI bushings GM STB Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus SS lines Brembo slotted discs DHP tuned Aeroforce Hidden Hitch


'05 GTO 49k miles 0-60: 4.8s 16.9 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun
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Rickw
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Water / Alcohol / Methanol Injection?   Sat Oct 17, 2009 7:25 pm

I was thinking the same thing, and I have an L32 Intake Manifold to play with.
One of the distributors for Snow's Injection (the company i was going to buy from) is located a little further south of me.
Was considering going and visiting them and discussing the issue.
www.snowperformance.net

Have been looking at their Stage 3 System


Last edited by Rickw on Sat Oct 17, 2009 7:57 pm; edited 3 times in total
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Water / Alcohol / Methanol Injection?   Sat Oct 17, 2009 7:33 pm

If spray pattern is not a factor, that should be doable. If it behaves anything like nitrous, it would be very hard to make it work well, based off of what I've read with GTP people trying.

I think what would scare me the most is if some banks get a lot more than others and then you have more potential for undetected knocking and stuff like that.
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Rickw
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Water / Alcohol / Methanol Injection?   Sat Oct 17, 2009 7:37 pm

Yeh, Nitrous is sprayed as a gas or at least in a more volatile nature. Not like water-meth which requires atomizing along with the air-fuel mixture.
So, I don't think Water-Meth would work good injected in the manifold. IDK for sure.
But the only water meth setups I've seen are injected into the airstream of a carburetored engine with a centrifugal blower.
Like an Aircraft Radial engine and even Turbine engine's, the flow of water-meth is directed into the compressor blades for better atomization before it enters the combustion chambers.
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AA
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Water / Alcohol / Methanol Injection?   Sat Oct 17, 2009 7:54 pm

If you injected at 3 or 6 points (not yet sure where), so each cylinder could have somewhat equal amounts, I don't see why it wouldn't work. I also don't see why it would have to be atomized. The purpose is for the water to do two things:

1) cool the superheated air charge exiting the blower (an even better reason to inject after the blower, as an IC does), reducing knock.

2) absorb heat from combustion chambers as the water turns to steam, further reducing knock.

So, as long as the water gets in there somehow, it should work, imo. Monitoring KR levels while delivering more or less water to the different spray points should result in a solution that lowers KR levels overall.

_________________
'98 SC Riviera 268k miles 298 HP/370 TQ 0-60: 5.79s ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 4087 lb 20.1 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley AL104 plugs 180 t-stat FWI w/K&N 1.9:1 rockers OR pushrods LS6 valve springs SLP headers ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts MaxAir shocks Addco sway bars UMI bushings GM STB Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus SS lines Brembo slotted discs DHP tuned Aeroforce Hidden Hitch


'05 GTO 49k miles 0-60: 4.8s 16.9 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun
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Rickw
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Water / Alcohol / Methanol Injection?   Sat Oct 17, 2009 7:59 pm

That's why i want to go down and visit these folks.
Take a look at their Stage 3 system at the website i posted above and give me your thought's.
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T Riley
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Water / Alcohol / Methanol Injection?   Sat Oct 17, 2009 8:45 pm

AA wrote:
Our Gen III blowers have the coating as well. As far as I have read, the coating is what helps the M90 be as efficient as it is, and it's the fear of damaging it that makes water/alcohol injection questionable.

Australian performance site with info on the subject: http://v6supercharged.com.au/workshop.asp?ProjectID=8
not the same coating.. I will be spraying a Wet shot THROUGH my blower cool like a boss of course
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Rickw
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Water / Alcohol / Methanol Injection?   Sat Oct 17, 2009 8:51 pm

Thanks Travis



Can we kiss and make up, now !!!!!
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T Riley
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Water / Alcohol / Methanol Injection?   Sat Oct 17, 2009 8:59 pm

Rickw wrote:
Thanks Travis



Can we kiss and make up, now !!!!!

dunno
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Rickw
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Water / Alcohol / Methanol Injection?   Sat Oct 17, 2009 9:02 pm

98riviera98 wrote:
Well then.....GFY
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T Riley
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Water / Alcohol / Methanol Injection?   Sat Oct 17, 2009 9:05 pm

Rickw wrote:
98riviera98 wrote:
Well then.....GFY

I meant it like why not... in a good way...

I don't need to FM.... i have someone for that.. wink

love
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Rickw
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Water / Alcohol / Methanol Injection?   Sat Oct 17, 2009 9:10 pm

So do i, what a coincidence.


OK, hope that's settled.
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T Riley
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Water / Alcohol / Methanol Injection?   Sat Oct 17, 2009 9:14 pm

Rickw wrote:
So do i, what a coincidence.


OK, hope that's settled.

Settled +
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Rickw
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Water / Alcohol / Methanol Injection?   Sat Oct 17, 2009 9:16 pm

Well, I'm relieved. I'm Sorry
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T Riley
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Water / Alcohol / Methanol Injection?   Sat Oct 17, 2009 9:24 pm

Rickw wrote:
Well, I'm relieved. I'm Sorry

Me 2. 3gears
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Water / Alcohol / Methanol Injection?   Sun Oct 18, 2009 12:49 am

heart heart heart .. boohoo boohoo .. heart heart heart

clap
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PostSubject: Anyone running Water/meth injection?   Sun Mar 14, 2010 4:45 pm

If so, what kit are you using, what other mods do you have and how do you like it? Thanks!
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Water / Alcohol / Methanol Injection?   Sun Mar 14, 2010 6:55 pm

Sorry I didn't see this post before, thanks for moving it. I've been reading up on water/alcohol injection when used on the 3800 and there are plenty of people doing it. It's not something that requires precision placement.

Also, if you want to stay away from the methanol you can use denatured alcohol instead. It doesn't have the corrosive tendencies of straight methanol. Though a mix of 50/50 methanol will not eat the coating off your rotors either.

I'm seriously considering just purchasing a shurflo pump and building my own, injecting it before the TB for now and once I get the new engine built, spraying after the supercharger. I'll most likely run a mixture of distilled water and typical washer fluid.


Last edited by BrianEsser on Sun Mar 14, 2010 7:02 pm; edited 1 time in total
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