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 FAQ: Good Battery Replacement?

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albertj
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Good Battery Replacement?   FAQ: Good Battery Replacement? - Page 6 EmptyThu Jun 14, 2012 10:58 am

Check the tension on the alternator belt by trying to turn the alt pulley so it slips under the belt. If you can do that with your hands it's probably time to replace the tensioner (weak) and/or the belt (glazed) - because if you can do that then your belt will likely slip when the load is high and not charge the battery. This won't show up in the charging system test that a mech can do, it's turning relatively slowly under light load...
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RivGuy
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PostSubject: Battery Replacement   FAQ: Good Battery Replacement? - Page 6 EmptyTue Jun 19, 2012 4:32 pm

Just had to pass this on, I just replaced my Freedom Delco Battery in my 97 with 31000 miles. Original Battery and still started good just didn't want to get stuck someplace
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albertj
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Good Battery Replacement?   FAQ: Good Battery Replacement? - Page 6 EmptyTue Jun 19, 2012 11:27 pm

RivGuy wrote:
Just had to pass this on, I just replaced my Freedom Delco Battery in my 97 with 31000 miles. Original Battery and still started good just didn't want to get stuck someplace

for the rest of you reading this - the Delco batteries last a *long* time - due to their use of lead-calcium grid. The lead-calcium grid is strong, more resistant to corrosion, tolerant of overcharging, better controlled outgassing, has less water usage, and less self-discharge -- things which shorten conventional lead-acid battery life. There are some tricks involved. One is that General Motors studied the charging characteristics of lead/calcium batteries. Using those results, they set the voltage regulators of cars equipped with the "Delco Freedom II" battery at 14.8 volts for charging, because lower settings prevented charging lead-calcium batteries to full capacity. That said, 14.8 volts is too high for lead/antimony batteries and will cause them to lose water rapidly.

You can read more about the Freedom battery, which is now a standard for state-of-the-industry battery design, at this LINK.

Aftermarket batteries that are not Delco often are traditional lead-antimony construction, with sealed top, side terminals, and a sticker that says "maintenance-free." This retrofit--rather than re-engineering--of an old design justifiably has earned a reputation for poor service life. The problem basically is that the antimony battery outgasses a lot through its vents, and the side terminals very quickly corrode. In the Riviera, what little outgassing there is is directed outside of the battery compartment via vents. This eliminates the acid fumes that can surround a conventional battery and promote terminal corrosion as well as corrosion of the surrounding metal. The only time you will usually see corroded side terminals on a GM car is when the Freedom battery was replaced with a side terminal aftermarket design; in such cases, the terminals would quickly become extremely corroded. That shadow falls unfairly on the Delco Freedom batteries, I think. There's pretty strong engineering that went into the Freedom batteries, and that is why they last so long with minimal maintenance in GM cars.

All that said - all you have to do is check the cold cranking amps (CCAs) with a CCA tester (most auto repair shops and some part stores have them) and see if the CCAs are above or below 450. Much below 450 in the Riviera when fully charged, and yes you should replace the battery. Eight years of very good service from a Delco 79-6YR battery is not uncommon at all. You really need to test it first before chucking it, they last a **very** long time.


Last edited by albertj on Thu Jun 21, 2012 8:30 pm; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : splng errs)
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Good Battery Replacement?   FAQ: Good Battery Replacement? - Page 6 EmptyWed Jun 20, 2012 12:01 am

That's interesting... I learn something new every time I log in here!
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albertj
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Good Battery Replacement?   FAQ: Good Battery Replacement? - Page 6 EmptyWed Jun 20, 2012 12:20 am

gmann3001 wrote:
That's interesting... I learn something new every time I log in here!

Yah... nobody can **make** you use a Delco battery but now you can see why if you don't things can get all messed up...
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Good Battery Replacement?   FAQ: Good Battery Replacement? - Page 6 EmptyThu Jun 21, 2012 12:20 am

And How
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Good Battery Replacement?   FAQ: Good Battery Replacement? - Page 6 EmptyThu Jun 21, 2012 2:56 am

Quote :
There are some tricks involved. One is that General Motors studied the charging characteristics of lead/calcium batteries. Using those results, they set the voltage regulators of cars equipped with the "Delco Freedom II" battery at 14.8 volts for charging, because lower settings prevented charging lead-calcium batteries to full capacity. That said, 14.8 volts is too high for lead/antimony batteries and will cause them to lose water rapidly.
I would add that GM went even further with the use of a thermistor, which changes the charge voltage based on temperature. Cold batteries like a higher charge voltage; hot batteries like a bit less. Depending on temperature, you'll see anything from 13.5 up to 15 volts from the alternator. And because they placed the thermistor in proximity with the battery, it responds to ambient temps, or heat produced by the battery itself. A clever idea that has a LOT to do with why these batteries last so long.

_________________
'98 SC Riviera • 281k miles • 298 HP/370 TQ • 0-60: 5.79s • ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 • 4087 lb • 20.1 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley • AL104 plugs • 180º t-stat • FWI w/K&N • 1.9:1 rockers • OR pushrods • LS6 valve springs • SLP headers • ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts • MaxAir shocks • Addco sway bars • UMI bushings • GM STB • Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s • F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus • SS lines • Brembo slotted discs • DHP tuned • Aeroforce • Hidden Hitch

^^^ SOLD ^^^ frown

'05 GTO • 85k miles • 0-60: 4.8s • 16.9 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun


'70 Olds Ninety-Eight Holiday Coupe • 116k miles • 455 Rocket V8
Because cool


'95 Celica • 152k miles • 0-60: yes
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otto95
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PostSubject: Battery replacement question   FAQ: Good Battery Replacement? - Page 6 EmptyThu Jul 12, 2012 3:23 pm

I'm finally getting ready to take my '98 Riviera out of winter storage (sold the winter car that was wearing the Riv's plates yesterday), and it reminds me that I need to buy a new battery for the Riv. When I went to disconnect the negative battery terminal for winter slumber, I discovered that the previous owner had adapted a top post Interstate battery (with caps to add water) for the car.

There was an ad on the radio yesterday saying that NAPA is offering $25 rebates for alternators, starters & batteries sold in July, so I took a look at NAPA online - they sell a group 79 battery (840 cca) for $ 152 and a group 78 battery (850 cca) for $ 107. The NAPA specs say that the group 78 battery is 1 3/4" longer, so I'm wondering if it will fit. I see on the forum that someone bought a group 78 and it was 2" shorter than a group 79, so I'm confused (NAPA specs are wrong?). If the group 78 will fit, I'd like to save the $45...

Any likelihood that a local GM dealer will be able to do better than NAPA on battery prices?

Luckily, when I lifted that rear seat cushion last fall, the battery venting was laying there under the seat, so I have that ready for the new battery.

Thanks in advance for your input & advice.
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Good Battery Replacement?   FAQ: Good Battery Replacement? - Page 6 EmptyThu Jul 12, 2012 7:07 pm

NAPA battery's are good, made by DEKA , but I don't know if the vent assy will fit and for a few more bucks you can get the AC Delco it came with. The Delco battery will last far longer and have the amps these cars need.
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Good Battery Replacement?   FAQ: Good Battery Replacement? - Page 6 EmptyThu Jul 12, 2012 9:51 pm

otto95 wrote:
I'm finally getting ready to take my '98 Riviera out of winter storage (sold the winter car that was wearing the Riv's plates yesterday), and it reminds me that I need to buy a new battery for the Riv. When I went to disconnect the negative battery terminal for winter slumber, I discovered that the previous owner had adapted a top post Interstate battery (with caps to add water) for the car.

There was an ad on the radio yesterday saying that NAPA is offering $25 rebates for alternators, starters & batteries sold in July, so I took a look at NAPA online - they sell a group 79 battery (840 cca) for $ 152 and a group 78 battery (850 cca) for $ 107. The NAPA specs say that the group 78 battery is 1 3/4" longer, so I'm wondering if it will fit. I see on the forum that someone bought a group 78 and it was 2" shorter than a group 79, so I'm confused (NAPA specs are wrong?). If the group 78 will fit, I'd like to save the $45...

Any likelihood that a local GM dealer will be able to do better than NAPA on battery prices?

Luckily, when I lifted that rear seat cushion last fall, the battery venting was laying there under the seat, so I have that ready for the new battery.

Thanks in advance for your input & advice.

It is possible that a GM dealer's prices on batteries will be competitive BUT you will need to call a few dealers in your area to check prices. In my area the dealer does not advertise batteries but their pricing is, well, aggressive on the low side for "cash and carry" batteries and you'd be nuts to buy a battery elsewhere. Dealers pricing batteries higher tend to include installation and new vent assemblies. You have to ask.

The NAPA on line battery prices, for some reason, are much higher in your area than mine. It would not be a waste of time to look elsewhere.

Albertj
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Good Battery Replacement?   FAQ: Good Battery Replacement? - Page 6 EmptyFri Jul 13, 2012 2:45 am

I got a Diehard from Sears that was the same size as the original battery. THe Vent tubes fit on there like original. It was like 150-160 if I recall correctly. I haven't had any problems in like the 4 years I've had it..
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otto95
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Good Battery Replacement?   FAQ: Good Battery Replacement? - Page 6 EmptyFri Jul 13, 2012 10:08 am

Thanks for the input/advice - looks like I'll be making a few phone calls/out battery shopping this weekend...
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Good Battery Replacement?   FAQ: Good Battery Replacement? - Page 6 EmptyFri Jul 13, 2012 3:46 pm

This post caught my attention when you said you were just now getting the Riv. out of winter storage in mid July (LOL). For all I know my 1998 might still have its factory battery. I received my 1998 Riviera from my aunt’s estate back in 2005 when it had about 48,500 miles (just turned 68,000 miles last week). The car has always been garage kept since new. Since moving to Ottawa I put it away in my apt. underground parking garage end of every Nov. and don't start driving it again until mid to late April (Nov. change oil, clean everything, condition rubber door/trunk seals etc., fill fuel tank and add fuel stabilizer, slightly add more air to tires, etc.). Been much better this summer driving it once a week. A few years ago AC stopped blowing cold. Turned out some sort of seal in the AC system dried up because the Riv was parked for long periods of time and I had not run the AC for close to 3 years. Cost me some big bucks to fix the AC. My mechanic (now my best auto friend) told me to "drive the damn car in the summer" and turn on the AC even on cool days to keep everything lubricated. Something about the Riv AC components where fluids drain from the AC stuff and seals will dry out adding excess wear on AC stuff. You will note I am not a gearhead.

Perhaps because I am a low mileage driver and the Riv is parked indoors and never exposed to extreme high or low temps it never hesitates to start up even after sitting for 5 months a year during winter storage. I have never disconnected the battery during winter storage since 2005.

Much debate regarding disconnecting the battery while an auto is in storage. Friends of mine here in the great white North who have restored autos from the 1950s-70s disconnect the battery. Friends who have high performance newer sports cars never disconnect the battery during winter storage. But my friends and I keep our cars indoors during the winter and not exposed to freezing temps. I decided if the Riv won't start one April, I will just call the auto club.

An auto like the Riviera with a lot of power options, I would suggest getting the best battery with best warranty you can afford. When I lived in HOT Dallas I had a 1996 Sebring LXI coupe. I drove a lot, mostly short distances a dozen times daily but still had underground parking. The summer heat plus restarting dozens of times daily ate up the battery and had to replace battery almost yearly. Always replaced battery with a good warranty so seldom spent more than $20 to get the battery replaced under warranty. Same Sebring was later stored indoors almost two years straight in NYC while I worked in the Middle East. Did not disconnect the battery but of course added fuel stabilizer to a full fuel tank. Almost two years in storage the Sebring was so dusty looked like a barn find when I picked it back up in 2002. But it started up without hesitation. Then became a low mileage driver in cold Canada. I drove the Sebring another 8 years without issues and a battery last purchased in Dallas, 1999,
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otto95
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Good Battery Replacement?   FAQ: Good Battery Replacement? - Page 6 EmptyMon Jul 16, 2012 8:57 am

Thanks for your input - the car that was wearing the Riviera's plates for the winter went to its new home on Saturday - I'm headed to Motor Vehicles today or tomorrow to swap the plates back.

I was just following the owner's manual advice (disconnect the battery) for long term storage. I don't think that anything pre-1980 has the continual electrical draw that the newer vehicles have. Additionally, the friend of mine who stored the car for me between the time I bought it and the time I drove it back East told me that if he started the car weekly, he had no issues. If he let it sit for over 3 weeks, he had to charge the battery before it would start, so I knew that the battery the car had in it was somewhat marginal.

I looked online over the weekend - the group 79 battery @ NAPA is $152, Auto Zone is $156, and Sears is $165. I've got a day off tomorrow, so I want to check BJ's and make a few dealer calls.
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abaucom
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Good Battery Replacement?   FAQ: Good Battery Replacement? - Page 6 EmptyMon Jul 16, 2012 2:40 pm

LOL - happy OP clarifed he legally switched plates from his Riv to his winter auto. Did not want to question the "switching" of plates on the web.
Because I live where many of my car buddy friends store autos for the winter, always indoors etc., I had a question myself about disconnecting the battery when in 2005 I imported the Riv to Canada and decided not to drive it winters as it had never been driven in snow/salt conditions. I see John lives in NY which gets cold but not sure if it was stored indoors or outdoors, or in a warmer climate. All I can say cold weather affects the battery and that is why so many people in Canada that park outdoors use plug in electric engine block heaters. Last winter, driving my 2011 Camaro I parked outside at work for six hours and wind chill was about -25 F all day. That 7 month old car was a little sluggish to start after only six hours of artic freeze. If John's friend was having to recharge the battery after only sitting for 3 weeks, the battery was used up and time to be replaced.
Another issue I discussed with my car buddy friends back in 2006, first winter I parked the Riv indoors, was I would start the car and let it run for 20 mins. every two weeks. Have to remember I moved from Dallas to Ottawa and was lame regarding winter car storage. I was told by car buddy friends who store both older restored autos and newer sports cars in Canada, no point starting the car every 2 week. I was told starting the car and just letting it run parked actually put more wear and tear on the auto. Unless I could take it out on the road and drive for 20 mins., best not to start it at all. I had AC repairs done a few years ago (at only 65,000 miles), and per my mechanics suggestion, during my Riv winter 5 month storage I do start up it up only once for about 30 mins and turn on the AC to lubricate AC seals. Had something to do with on the Riviera if AC not used a lubricant can drain away from the seals thus causing problems, seal failure, parts failure. I trust my mechanic when he told me to "drive the damn car", or at least "turn on the AC" to keep AC seals lubricated.
Sorry to have gone a little off topic regarding the battery. From my experience with autos having many power options, the Riviera when parked does not drain much from the battery to keep the clock and alarm system working. If the battery goes bad, one or two recharges should tell you time to replace the battery. Get the best battery with longest warrenty you can afford. Back in the early 80s I moved from Houston to NYC. I had a 1976 Eldorado convertible bought new. Just before I moved to NYC in 1981 I had the battery replaced with most powerful battery on the market. When I moved to NYC I parked in an open lot owned by two New York City policemen so I felt it was safe. Once went 7 months without seeing or starting up the Eldo (who needs an Eldo conv. when you live in the West Village?). Because the Eldo had a premium battery less than two years old, it started without hesitation after one winter parked outdoors during a NYC winter.
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otto95
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Good Battery Replacement?   FAQ: Good Battery Replacement? - Page 6 EmptyWed Jul 18, 2012 9:21 am

Akron is an eastern suburb of Buffalo (famous for chicken wings & winter snow), so the Riviera gets stored inside a pole barn for the winter. After living in Phoenix, AZ for 22 years, I don't consider purchasing anything that's been driven through the winter - rust is a four letter word!

My '98 Riviera was originally sold in Las Vegas (Desert Buick GMC), made its way to Tucson, AZ, and I purchased it in Phoenix, AZ. A friend of mine kept it as his house until I could make a trip out to drive it back - he "exercised" it every now and again to keep everything working properly...
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Good Battery Replacement?   FAQ: Good Battery Replacement? - Page 6 EmptyFri Jul 19, 2013 1:49 pm

http://shop.zzperformance.com/store/p/76-Race-Battery.aspx

Does anyone know anything about this guy? My battery is shot, and i have some zzp in-store credit i need to use up...
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Good Battery Replacement?   FAQ: Good Battery Replacement? - Page 6 EmptyFri Jul 19, 2013 2:31 pm

The Riviera battery is under the rear seat, and it is a big one.  It has provisions for venting the hydrogen gas produced to the outside.  IMHO, you should get the right battery.  Yes, it's expensive.  Putting anything else in there is asking for trouble.

_________________
98 Riviera SC3800  All stock except gutted air box.
1970 Buick GS455 Stage1, TSP built 470BBB, 602HP/589TQ
Best MPH, 116.06 MPH, Best ET, 11.54
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Good Battery Replacement?   FAQ: Good Battery Replacement? - Page 6 EmptyFri Jul 19, 2013 3:03 pm

ZZP: "It should be noted that the reserve capacity is smaller than a stock battery, so it should not be used for extended periods with the car not running."

Knowing that info, I would never spend what ZZP is asking for a daily driver. No CCA advertised, and no warranty. You're buying weight savings, that's it.

Optima RedTops are sealed, require no venting, and fit under the rear seats. AutoZone sells them for ~$125. After using one 3+ years, I wouldn't use anything else.

_________________
'98 SC Riviera • 281k miles • 298 HP/370 TQ • 0-60: 5.79s • ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 • 4087 lb • 20.1 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley • AL104 plugs • 180º t-stat • FWI w/K&N • 1.9:1 rockers • OR pushrods • LS6 valve springs • SLP headers • ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts • MaxAir shocks • Addco sway bars • UMI bushings • GM STB • Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s • F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus • SS lines • Brembo slotted discs • DHP tuned • Aeroforce • Hidden Hitch

^^^ SOLD ^^^ frown

'05 GTO • 85k miles • 0-60: 4.8s • 16.9 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun


'70 Olds Ninety-Eight Holiday Coupe • 116k miles • 455 Rocket V8
Because cool


'95 Celica • 152k miles • 0-60: yes
Because free
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Good Battery Replacement?   FAQ: Good Battery Replacement? - Page 6 EmptyFri Jul 19, 2013 3:11 pm

Optima Red Top! I had to splice in a longer positive cable.The OEM was a little short.My last Optima lasted allmost 15 years,maybe more!
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Sir Psycho Sexy
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Good Battery Replacement?   FAQ: Good Battery Replacement? - Page 6 EmptyFri Jul 19, 2013 3:14 pm

Ive never heard a single person say anything bad about optimas. I was just interested in this because i have the store credit, but i also found it kind of sketchy that there werent really any specs on it.

Dont happen to have a part number for the optima, do you?
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Good Battery Replacement?   FAQ: Good Battery Replacement? - Page 6 EmptyFri Jul 19, 2013 3:20 pm

FAQ: Good Battery Replacement? - Page 6 Screenshot2013-07-19at31757PM

_________________
'98 SC Riviera • 281k miles • 298 HP/370 TQ • 0-60: 5.79s • ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 • 4087 lb • 20.1 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley • AL104 plugs • 180º t-stat • FWI w/K&N • 1.9:1 rockers • OR pushrods • LS6 valve springs • SLP headers • ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts • MaxAir shocks • Addco sway bars • UMI bushings • GM STB • Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s • F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus • SS lines • Brembo slotted discs • DHP tuned • Aeroforce • Hidden Hitch

^^^ SOLD ^^^ frown

'05 GTO • 85k miles • 0-60: 4.8s • 16.9 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun


'70 Olds Ninety-Eight Holiday Coupe • 116k miles • 455 Rocket V8
Because cool


'95 Celica • 152k miles • 0-60: yes
Because free
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Good Battery Replacement?   FAQ: Good Battery Replacement? - Page 6 EmptyFri Jul 19, 2013 3:52 pm

Red Top for carz.Yellow top for carz with systems and such. Blue top for boatzzz.
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Good Battery Replacement?   FAQ: Good Battery Replacement? - Page 6 EmptySat Nov 23, 2013 9:08 pm

Last winter my starts were feeling weak with my original, 150k, battery. I told myself then I'd get it upgraded for this winter..
Well, the cold is here and I had a couple of coughs on a couple start ups already. That was my reminder.

Going shopping tomorrow. Looking at the Optima Yellow top. I see some of you have installed the Red  Top and needed to give it a booster seat to mount right.

Anyone install the yellow top yet? Looking forward to the upgrade! Now to get the darn stereo/tablet install finished!


OPTIMA® Batteries 8014-045 D34/78 YELLOWTOP® Starting & Deep Cycle
FAQ: Good Battery Replacement? - Page 6 YellowTop_-_D34_78
BENEFITS OF THE YELLOWTOP®:
Deep-cycle and cranking power
Up to two times longer life
More than 15 times the vibration resistance
Completely spillproof, mountable in virtually any position
Maintenance-free
Faster recharging
Optimal starting power
300+ discharge/recharge cycles
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FAQ: Good Battery Replacement? - Page 6 Empty
PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Good Battery Replacement?   FAQ: Good Battery Replacement? - Page 6 EmptySat Nov 23, 2013 9:44 pm

Most of the listed benefits are shared with Red Top. What Yellow Top gives you is deep cycle discharge capability, that's it. Unless you're planning to regularly drain the battery dead, Red Top is plenty good.

While the tops are different colors, I believe the cases are identical for each Optima application. A Yellow Top should fit the same as a Red Top for the same application. The bracket mod is super easy to do. Just find a scrap of metal or plastic and a dremel tool.

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FAQ: Good Battery Replacement? - Page 6 Empty
PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Good Battery Replacement?   FAQ: Good Battery Replacement? - Page 6 Empty

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