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 FAQ: Starter/Solenoid Info

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flyineagle96
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Starter/Solenoid Info   Mon Nov 14, 2011 9:39 am

deekster_caddy wrote:
hey man chill out. We get newbies here all the time and there's nothing like some good advice to turn a newbie into an enthusiast.
or an expert like yourself!!! lol
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adri
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Starter/Solenoid Info   Mon Nov 14, 2011 2:17 pm

thanks for the positive reply AA and caddy clap , I do appreciate it. Im just new to my car and im trying to do most of the work myself because i do hate asking people for help. i however know that no man is an island so ill bite the bullet 9 times out of 10 to ask a question if i dont know the answer myself. having said that i am going to go in the engine later on today and see what i may need to begin with in order to get the starter out. ill let yall know the progress.
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Starter/Solenoid Info   Mon Nov 14, 2011 2:24 pm

Great reply AlbertJ! rock a guy told me the same thing that it may be the solenoid. but ill def check them wires.
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AA
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PostSubject: temp   Mon Nov 14, 2011 3:08 pm

I think the solenoid is part of the starter, and they must be serviced as a unit, but I could be wrong. This means the starter (and solenoid) must first be removed, and yes, an auto parts store can do a test to check both the starter motor and the solenoid's function, so hopefully that's enough to diagnose the problem.

Since the starter must come off, you might as well inspect both the starter gear teeth and the flywheel gear for damage. They're probably okay, but checking them will tell you if the problem is mechanical or electrical.

_________________
'98 SC Riviera • 268k miles • 298 HP/370 TQ • 0-60: 5.79s • ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 • 4087 lb • 20.1 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley • AL104 plugs • 180º t-stat • FWI w/K&N • 1.9:1 rockers • OR pushrods • LS6 valve springs • SLP headers • ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts • MaxAir shocks • Addco sway bars • UMI bushings • GM STB • Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s • F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus • SS lines • Brembo slotted discs • DHP tuned • Aeroforce • Hidden Hitch


'05 GTO • 49k miles • 0-60: 4.8s • 16.9 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun
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flyineagle96
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Starter/Solenoid Info   Mon Nov 14, 2011 5:11 pm

They didn't give you the points i did!!! yawn
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albertj
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Starter/Solenoid Info   Mon Nov 14, 2011 10:45 pm

AA wrote:
I think the solenoid is part of the starter, and they must be serviced as a unit, but I could be wrong. This means the starter (and solenoid) must first be removed, and yes, an auto parts store can do a test to check both the starter motor and the solenoid's function, so hopefully that's enough to diagnose the problem.

Since the starter must come off, you might as well inspect both the starter gear teeth and the flywheel gear for damage. They're probably okay, but checking them will tell you if the problem is mechanical or electrical.

On the GM, Chrysler and many other cars I am aware of the solenoid's part of the starter. On many Fords I am aware of (and old AMCs I've worked on) there is a separate starter relay, usually on the firewall or an inner fender. It is cheaper to make, works fine, and there is not exactly a solenoid on the starter. Basically the thing works like this - you turn the key, it sends power to the starter relay, relay closes and turns on the starter motor, and makes a "pole shoe" swing into position - basically that gadget moves a pinion gear to engage the flywheel ring gear, and simultaneously closes a pair of heavy-duty contacts supplying current to the starter motor winding, which cranks the engine. When the engine starts, it runs faster than the starter can turn -- so an overrunning clutch in the pinion gear uncouples that gear from the ring gear. The sound of the starting engine effectively gives "feedback" to the driver, who lets go of the key -- which cuts power to the starter motor assembly, and in turn a spring pulls the pole shoe and pinion gear back into the resting position.

The GM starter is way simpler - The solenoid is on the starter. When the driver turns the key it sends current from the starting battery to the solenoid, which engages a lever that pushes out the drive pinion gear to mesh with the starter ring gear on the flywheel. The solenoid also closes high-current contacts for the starter motor, which begins to turn. The sound of the starting engine effectively gives "feedback" to the driver, who lets go of the key -- then a spring in the solenoid assembly pulls the pinion gear away from the ring gear, and the starter motor stops...

Albertj
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Starter/Solenoid Info   Sun Nov 20, 2011 8:39 am

i havent checked it out as yet guys, but i will this week when i get paid. you know what is weird too, that horrible noise only happens when the time is really cold. it hasnt started to snow as yet, but when the temp drops to like 30s and the car has been sitting for a while, when i try to start it the sound happens. does anyone know why this happens? its weird yo. i work at night from 10-7am and it usually happens when im ready to leave work in the mornings and the car has been sitting there all night, but when i reach home and is ready for work later on in the night and i start it, it dosnt happen. do you get my drift? frown
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Starter/Solenoid Info   Tue Nov 22, 2011 2:21 pm

Hey adri your solenoid is dying my friend frown, you have to replace it as a whole unit and you can get a new one in www.rockauto.com for about $100.00 + shipping, the reason why it's because when you energize the solenoid (by turning the key to the start position) it pulls the little gear in the starter out and starts to spin the flex plate (a.k.a. flywheel) to start the engine, but when the solenoid gets stuck the gear it's still out and the flex plate start to rotate the "starter motor" too FAST and makes that screech noise very loud!! burnout
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Starter/Solenoid Info   Fri Dec 02, 2011 3:40 pm

I plan to replace the starter because all indications have lead to that being the problem. It does seem like the starter and solenoid are one and the junk yard has got them for $35 so i guess that is my best bet. i took a brief look at the starter and it seems like there is just one bolt holding it..kinda weird, but i will replace it.
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flyineagle96
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Starter/Solenoid Info   Fri Dec 02, 2011 3:46 pm

Thats it i think you have got it,don't forget that there is a shim behind the starter/bolt.Don't loose it or forget to put back with new one or you will here the same thing "horrible screeching"!!!
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Starter/Solenoid Info   Fri Dec 02, 2011 7:18 pm

flyineagle96 wrote:
Thats it i think you have got it,don't forget that there is a shim behind the starter/bolt.Don't loose it or forget to put back with new one or you will here the same thing "horrible screeching"!!!

And if you p ull it at the yard take that shim - the shims are used to align the starter case to the housing. Sometimes you don't need one, sometimes you need a fat one.
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Starter/Solenoid Info   Thu Dec 15, 2011 12:01 pm

I havent had much money lately so everything has kinda been on a hold, but i got a new starter. yay the starter and solenoid are one btw. so now i have the part but to get the old one replaced is the issue. im no mechanic but im def willing to learn, but i like having experience around me so i know im on the right track. id like someone however to give me a step by step walkthrough on how that replace my starter, if possible. id appreciate it a whole lot. santa
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Starter/Solenoid Info   Tue Feb 21, 2012 3:29 pm

Thanks to all you guys for helping me out when i have any questions, as stupid as they may seem.
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AA
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Starter/Solenoid Info   Tue Feb 21, 2012 3:33 pm

Did you get the new starter in okay? How did it go?

_________________
'98 SC Riviera • 268k miles • 298 HP/370 TQ • 0-60: 5.79s • ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 • 4087 lb • 20.1 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley • AL104 plugs • 180º t-stat • FWI w/K&N • 1.9:1 rockers • OR pushrods • LS6 valve springs • SLP headers • ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts • MaxAir shocks • Addco sway bars • UMI bushings • GM STB • Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s • F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus • SS lines • Brembo slotted discs • DHP tuned • Aeroforce • Hidden Hitch


'05 GTO • 49k miles • 0-60: 4.8s • 16.9 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun
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http://www.cardomain.com/ride/657082/4
AA
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Starter/Solenoid Info   Sun Jun 24, 2012 2:33 pm

Does anyone have a picture of the starter/solenoid and the wiring connections? The GM shop manual's diagram is a little unclear. It doesn't seem to match the wiring in my car.

_________________
'98 SC Riviera • 268k miles • 298 HP/370 TQ • 0-60: 5.79s • ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 • 4087 lb • 20.1 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley • AL104 plugs • 180º t-stat • FWI w/K&N • 1.9:1 rockers • OR pushrods • LS6 valve springs • SLP headers • ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts • MaxAir shocks • Addco sway bars • UMI bushings • GM STB • Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s • F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus • SS lines • Brembo slotted discs • DHP tuned • Aeroforce • Hidden Hitch


'05 GTO • 49k miles • 0-60: 4.8s • 16.9 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun
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http://www.cardomain.com/ride/657082/4
albertj
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Starter/Solenoid Info   Sun Jun 24, 2012 2:44 pm

AA wrote:
Does anyone have a picture of the starter/solenoid and the wiring connections? The GM shop manual's diagram is a little unclear. It doesn't seem to match the wiring in my car.

...what's the problem?
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Starter/Solenoid Info   Sun Jun 24, 2012 2:59 pm

I'm trying to reconnect the starter. Here is what I have:



There is a large ground cable in the picture, not sure where it's supposed to connect.

_________________
'98 SC Riviera • 268k miles • 298 HP/370 TQ • 0-60: 5.79s • ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 • 4087 lb • 20.1 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley • AL104 plugs • 180º t-stat • FWI w/K&N • 1.9:1 rockers • OR pushrods • LS6 valve springs • SLP headers • ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts • MaxAir shocks • Addco sway bars • UMI bushings • GM STB • Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s • F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus • SS lines • Brembo slotted discs • DHP tuned • Aeroforce • Hidden Hitch


'05 GTO • 49k miles • 0-60: 4.8s • 16.9 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun
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http://www.cardomain.com/ride/657082/4
AA
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Starter/Solenoid Info   Sun Jul 01, 2012 3:02 pm

Still have not been able to figure out where this ground wire connects. Here's a shot from the top side. You can see the wire is bundled with the pos wire, which has a similar connector. The manual illustrates the starter installation without referencing where this wire goes.


_________________
'98 SC Riviera • 268k miles • 298 HP/370 TQ • 0-60: 5.79s • ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 • 4087 lb • 20.1 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley • AL104 plugs • 180º t-stat • FWI w/K&N • 1.9:1 rockers • OR pushrods • LS6 valve springs • SLP headers • ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts • MaxAir shocks • Addco sway bars • UMI bushings • GM STB • Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s • F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus • SS lines • Brembo slotted discs • DHP tuned • Aeroforce • Hidden Hitch


'05 GTO • 49k miles • 0-60: 4.8s • 16.9 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun
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http://www.cardomain.com/ride/657082/4
turtleman
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Starter/Solenoid Info   Sun Jul 01, 2012 3:12 pm

I'm fairly sure that extra ring is the block ground a little left of the starter area if you're looking at it from the front of the car.
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Starter/Solenoid Info   Sun Jul 01, 2012 5:11 pm

That makes sense, thx. Probably doesn't matter too much I guess.

_________________
'98 SC Riviera • 268k miles • 298 HP/370 TQ • 0-60: 5.79s • ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 • 4087 lb • 20.1 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley • AL104 plugs • 180º t-stat • FWI w/K&N • 1.9:1 rockers • OR pushrods • LS6 valve springs • SLP headers • ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts • MaxAir shocks • Addco sway bars • UMI bushings • GM STB • Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s • F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus • SS lines • Brembo slotted discs • DHP tuned • Aeroforce • Hidden Hitch


'05 GTO • 49k miles • 0-60: 4.8s • 16.9 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun
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http://www.cardomain.com/ride/657082/4
robotennis61
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Starter/Solenoid Info   Sun Jul 01, 2012 5:26 pm

On the 95 I believe that wire is the main engine ground that connects to underneath the coil pack.It slides over on of the coil pack studs that screw into the engine block.
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Starter/Solenoid Info   Sun Jul 01, 2012 8:21 pm

I seem to recall that ground going under the bottom front transmission bolt.
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Starter/Solenoid Info   Sun Jul 01, 2012 8:59 pm

^^^^ hmm, I thought about that. Can someone peak under the hood and verify?

_________________
'98 SC Riviera • 268k miles • 298 HP/370 TQ • 0-60: 5.79s • ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 • 4087 lb • 20.1 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley • AL104 plugs • 180º t-stat • FWI w/K&N • 1.9:1 rockers • OR pushrods • LS6 valve springs • SLP headers • ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts • MaxAir shocks • Addco sway bars • UMI bushings • GM STB • Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s • F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus • SS lines • Brembo slotted discs • DHP tuned • Aeroforce • Hidden Hitch


'05 GTO • 49k miles • 0-60: 4.8s • 16.9 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun
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http://www.cardomain.com/ride/657082/4
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Starter/Solenoid Info   Sun Jul 01, 2012 9:30 pm

Ill go look.
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Starter/Solenoid Info   Sun Jul 01, 2012 9:49 pm

Its too wet out to get under the car... but I did find some illustrations in the service manual...



I hope this helps... if not I can try tomorrow to get a shot from under the front end.
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