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rivwilly107
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PostSubject: Shift Points   Sun Jul 20, 2008 6:13 pm

from: http://rivperformance.editboard.com/series-ii-scans-tuning-pcm-f5/aeroforce-gauge-t3583.htm

Chicken wrote:
One more thing...the aeroforce gauge lets me set "shift points" indicated by two red LED's...

I'm assuming when you launch, you guys manually shift starting in 2nd gear, then into third and forth...

if this is the case, what RPM's should I program the gauge to trigger the shift points?
Intense set mine up for 6,000 from 1st to 2nd and 5,800 from second to third.I think Aaron has his at 5,700 for both 1st to 2nd and 2nd to 3rd.Not sure about others though.Probably dependent on car mods and personal preference.I'm not sure about 3rd into 4th, I haven't been WOT all the way through 3rd yet.The Rivs stock suspension needs a VERY smooth road at that speed.
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deekster_caddy
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PostSubject: Re: Shift Points   Sun Jul 20, 2008 6:19 pm

I think this engine likes lower shift points unless mechanically modified for the airflow up top. Otherwise there's no point in revving that high. Both times I've dyno measured my engine, I start above my torque peak. The HP value peak climbs up and up over the run, and the torque peak goes down and down. I have no idea what my torque peak is.

Torque wins races. pulls heavy cars. torque is everything. That's how we make our 455 '69 Special run 12s with 2.56 gears in the back... finish the 1/4 mile at the top of second gear... Torque torque torque.

Lots of people talk crap about how the S/C 3800s don't do well up top. So why make it go there?
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AA
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PostSubject: Re: Shift Points   Mon Jul 21, 2008 10:03 am

Quote :
I think this engine likes lower shift points unless mechanically modified for the airflow up top. Otherwise there's no point in revving that high. Both times I've dyno measured my engine, I start above my torque peak. The HP value peak climbs up and up over the run, and the torque peak goes down and down. I have no idea what my torque peak is.

Torque wins races. pulls heavy cars. torque is everything. That's how we make our 455 '69 Special run 12s with 2.56 gears in the back... finish the 1/4 mile at the top of second gear... Torque torque torque.

Lots of people talk crap about how the S/C 3800s don't do well up top. So why make it go there?

There's two sides to everything; the other side of torque is RPM. If you really want to win races, you have to give RPM some attention, otherwise a guy with less torque is eventually going to hand you an ass-whippin'.

Our engines do make lots of torque, but we do it at low RPM (my dyno run made 308 WTQ @ 3400 RPM (!), and possibly more at lower RPM). All that torque makes for easy burn-outs and fun street driving, but it won't win races every time. When it comes to making horsepower, RPM is a factor, as well as torque. And horsepower, not torque, is what it's all about.

If two cars make the same amount of torque, but one makes the torque at a higher RPM, the higher RPM car will win the race. This is because torque and RPM multiply to create the overall ability to do work, aka HP. If you are missing one, it hurts your ability to go fast. Surprisingly, torque gets most of the credit, but RPM is also very important because it can make up for low torque numbers. The Japanese figured this out decades ago. We knew it too, but the average car buyer doesn't get it, because they can't feel it. Even an engine making less torque at a very high RPM can beat one with more torque at low RPM for the simple reason that it can use more of the gearing. Even though the big torque car pulls harder and feels faster, the higher RPM car pulls longer and wins the race.

Let's face it - a stock 3800 SC V6 doesn't do well up top. That makes me want to stop building more torque down low, because doing that makes the problem worse in a way. Instead, I want to move as much of that torque higher into the RPM band as I can, so that it can be better used to make HP, which is going to help me at winning races. This is why I like the idea of flow mods like rockers and headers (and a cam). These mods help push more of the torque up top.

I think there is a limit for shifting that depends on your engine's set-up. If you have a cam, and see your engine is making real power up to 6k RPM, I say shift at 6kRPM. If not, shift at the point where your engine is starting to make less HP. For me this is 5700-5800 RPM. I could shift higher, but it wouldn't make any more HP. But I wish I could. It would let me hold gears out a bit more, delaying my need to shift. This is the way to win races, imo.

_________________
'98 SC Riviera 268k miles 298 HP/370 TQ 0-60: 5.79s ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 4087 lb 20.1 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley AL104 plugs 180 t-stat FWI w/K&N 1.9:1 rockers OR pushrods LS6 valve springs SLP headers ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts MaxAir shocks Addco sway bars UMI bushings GM STB Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus SS lines Brembo slotted discs DHP tuned Aeroforce Hidden Hitch


'05 GTO 49k miles 0-60: 4.8s 16.9 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun
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dreww
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PostSubject: Re: Shift Points   Mon Jul 21, 2008 7:47 pm

rivwilly107 wrote:
from: http://rivperformance.editboard.com/series-ii-scans-tuning-pcm-f5/aeroforce-gauge-t3583.htm

Chicken wrote:
One more thing...the aeroforce gauge lets me set "shift points" indicated by two red LED's...

I'm assuming when you launch, you guys manually shift starting in 2nd gear, then into third and forth...

if this is the case, what RPM's should I program the gauge to trigger the shift points?
Intense set mine up for 6,000 from 1st to 2nd and 5,800 from second to third.I think Aaron has his at 5,700 for both 1st to 2nd and 2nd to 3rd.Not sure about others though.Probably dependent on car mods and personal preference.I'm not sure about 3rd into 4th, I haven't been WOT all the way through 3rd yet.The Rivs stock suspension needs a VERY smooth road at that speed.

6K! and you dont have any rockers or a cam? holy valve float batman!

you need to tune that down. I would keep shift points stock until some headwork or a cam was done. Even a cam requires new valvesprings.

my shift points are at 5900 (maybe 5800, cant remember exactly). And thats with 105lb valvesprings and 1.9rr's
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rivwilly107
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PostSubject: Re: Shift Points   Mon Jul 21, 2008 8:02 pm

dreww wrote:
rivwilly107 wrote:
from: http://rivperformance.editboard.com/series-ii-scans-tuning-pcm-f5/aeroforce-gauge-t3583.htm

Chicken wrote:
One more thing...the aeroforce gauge lets me set "shift points" indicated by two red LED's...

I'm assuming when you launch, you guys manually shift starting in 2nd gear, then into third and forth...

if this is the case, what RPM's should I program the gauge to trigger the shift points?
Intense set mine up for 6,000 from 1st to 2nd and 5,800 from second to third.I think Aaron has his at 5,700 for both 1st to 2nd and 2nd to 3rd.Not sure about others though.Probably dependent on car mods and personal preference.I'm not sure about 3rd into 4th, I haven't been WOT all the way through 3rd yet.The Rivs stock suspension needs a VERY smooth road at that speed.

6K! and you dont have any rockers or a cam? holy valve float batman!

you need to tune that down. I would keep shift points stock until some headwork or a cam was done. Even a cam requires new valvesprings.
I told them exacly what my set up was and spoke to them before they shipped my pcm to me.It was Scott Cook who said what they set it at.I asked if that was kinda high ,he said "No not at all."That is the 99.00 PCM setting.I didn,t question the pros to where it was supposed to be set at.Todd Allen confirmed this RPM shift point also.I was referred to Intense from guys on this forum,I assume they are reputable , so I used them to program my PCM to their recommended specifications.I did feel it was a little high so I don't usually WOT that high.The web site did say something about shift points at 6000 rpm needing Rockers ,that's why I questioned them.They assured me that that is what they always set it at for my mod level.
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AA
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PostSubject: Re: Shift Points   Mon Jul 21, 2008 8:23 pm

You'll probably be okay, but I wouldn't do it personally - not much to gain that high in RPM with stock valvetrain. Valve float is possible if you had the high-ratio rockers and using stock springs, but I don't think the OEM rockers get moving that much to cause serious problem.

INTENSE is always pushing the envelope, so you have to expect hard-core advice from them. They want your car to go fast! They might tell you to switch to E85, but it's up to everyone to decide what's best for their needs.

_________________
'98 SC Riviera 268k miles 298 HP/370 TQ 0-60: 5.79s ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 4087 lb 20.1 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley AL104 plugs 180 t-stat FWI w/K&N 1.9:1 rockers OR pushrods LS6 valve springs SLP headers ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts MaxAir shocks Addco sway bars UMI bushings GM STB Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus SS lines Brembo slotted discs DHP tuned Aeroforce Hidden Hitch


'05 GTO 49k miles 0-60: 4.8s 16.9 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun
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rivwilly107
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PostSubject: Re: Shift Points   Mon Jul 21, 2008 9:23 pm

AA wrote:
You'll probably be okay, but I wouldn't do it personally - not much to gain that high in RPM with stock valvetrain. Valve float is possible if you had the high-ratio rockers and using stock springs, but I don't think the OEM rockers get moving that much to cause serious problem.

INTENSE is always pushing the envelope, so you have to expect hard-core advice from them. They want your car to go fast! They might tell you to switch to E85, but it's up to everyone to decide what's best for their needs.
I was definitely planning on setting it lower when i get my Tuner.I had asked where you had your shift points and It makes sense to keep it in a safer range.I do plan to get rockers this fall or maybe winter. Would a high flo resonator be a worth while purchase?
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deekster_caddy
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PostSubject: Re: Shift Points   Tue Jul 22, 2008 12:22 am

Right AA, I understand about torque and RPM equalling HP. And you reiterated my real point, which I may have understated - if you aren't making power at the high RPM, don't go there you are wasting time. Get back to where the power is.

I grew up on big, heavy cars. Torque is what it takes to get them off the line, and that means surprising quite a few 'fast' cars that I was keeping up without all the racket... I like the 3800, but the Buick 455 and Cad 500 are still my favorite engines. They don't wind out, but keep the gears low and you'll fly...
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AA
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PostSubject: Re: Shift Points   Tue Jul 22, 2008 1:03 am

Yeah, I know you understand, and likewise, I do enjoy torque (my other ride is a '70 Oldsmobile with 455 cool ).

I didn't read it right, I guess. I thought you meant "don't go there" as if there's no point in building up top in power in the 3800 - imo, that's exactly what we need to do!

Lots of people really don't think HP matters, so I just wanted to explain my position on it. We have so much torque already, I don't really want to drop my SC pulley size any more, nor go IC, until I figured out a way to pump more air. I figure exhaust is my next step, unless I decide to do a cam someday.

_________________
'98 SC Riviera 268k miles 298 HP/370 TQ 0-60: 5.79s ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 4087 lb 20.1 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley AL104 plugs 180 t-stat FWI w/K&N 1.9:1 rockers OR pushrods LS6 valve springs SLP headers ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts MaxAir shocks Addco sway bars UMI bushings GM STB Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus SS lines Brembo slotted discs DHP tuned Aeroforce Hidden Hitch


'05 GTO 49k miles 0-60: 4.8s 16.9 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun
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http://www.cardomain.com/ride/657082/4
AA
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PostSubject: Re: Shift Points   Tue Apr 14, 2009 12:47 am

A few members have asked for my shift program, so here it is (DHP). Listing tables that have been changed from stock, changes in bold:

WARNING: If you decide to use the following shift program, do so at your own risk. The values listed below have worked for me, driving my car, with mods listed in sig, for at least a year (more than 25k miles) without any problem. If you are unsure about any part of this program, contact a qualified professional for opinion. Please know what you are doing before altering any part of the tables. I am not responsible for any damages/wear & tear caused by the use/misuse of this program.

Calibration Data/Transmission/Shift Point - Cruise/2nd_to_3rd:

00.00% = 26 MPH
06.25% = 26 MPH
12.50% = 32 MPH
18.75% = 35 MPH
25.00% = 38 MPH
31.25% = 43 MPH
37.50% = 46 MPH
43.75% = 48 MPH
50.00% = 51 MPH
56.25% = 58 MPH
62.50% = 61 MPH
68.75% = 71 MPH
75.00% = 73 MPH
81.25% = 73 MPH
87.50% = 74 MPH
93.75% = 74 MPH
100.0% = 74 MPH

Calibration Data/Transmission/Shift Point - Cruise/3rd to 4th:

00.00% = 45 MPH
06.25% = 45 MPH
12.50% = 46 MPH
18.75% = 50 MPH
25.00% = 72 MPH
31.25% = 80 MPH
37.50% = 108 MPH
43.75% = 108 MPH
50.00% = 108 MPH
56.25% = 108 MPH
62.50% = 108 MPH
68.75% = 108 MPH
75.00% = 108 MPH
81.25% = 108 MPH
87.50% = 108 MPH
93.75% = 108 MPH
100.0% = 108 MPH

Calibration Data/Transmission/Shift Point - Cruise/3rd to 2nd:

00.00% = 13 MPH
06.25% = 13 MPH
12.50% = 13 MPH
18.75% = 11 MPH
25.00% = 11 MPH
31.25% = 18 MPH
37.50% = 22 MPH
43.75% = 26 MPH
50.00% = 28 MPH
56.25% = 34 MPH
62.50% = 39 MPH
68.75% = 46 MPH
75.00% = 55 MPH
81.25% = 58 MPH
87.50% = 60 MPH
93.75% = 62 MPH
100.0% = 62 MPH

Calibration Data/Transmission/Shift Point - Cruise/4th to 3rd:

00.00% = 40 MPH
06.25% = 40 MPH
12.50% = 40 MPH
18.75% = 40 MPH
25.00% = 40 MPH
31.25% = 40 MPH
37.50% = 40 MPH
43.75% = 43 MPH
50.00% = 47 MPH
56.25% = 52 MPH
62.50% = 90 MPH
68.75% = 100 MPH
75.00% = 100 MPH
81.25% = 100 MPH
87.50% = 100 MPH
93.75% = 100 MPH
100.0% = 100 MPH


Calibration Data/Transmission/Shift Point - Normal/1st to 2nd_Normal:

00.00% = 17 MPH
06.25% = 17.5 MPH
12.50% = 19 MPH
18.75% = 22 MPH
25.00% = 26.5 MPH
31.25% = 31 MPH
37.50% = 36 MPH
43.75% = 40 MPH
50.00% = 43 MPH
56.25% = 46 MPH
62.50% = 47.5 MPH
68.75% = 48 MPH
75.00% = 48 MPH
81.25% = 48 MPH
87.50% = 48 MPH
93.75% = 48 MPH
100.0% = 48 MPH

Calibration Data/Transmission/Shift Point - Normal/2nd to 3rd_Normal:

00.00% = 30 MPH
06.25% = 30.5 MPH
12.50% = 33 MPH
18.75% = 38 MPH
25.00% = 45 MPH
31.25% = 54 MPH
37.50% = 61.5 MPH
43.75% = 68 MPH
50.00% = 74 MPH
56.25% = 79.5 MPH
62.50% = 84 MPH
68.75% = 88 MPH
75.00% = 91 MPH
81.25% = 93 MPH
87.50% = 94 MPH
93.75% = 94 MPH
100.0% = 94 MPH

Calibration Data/Transmission/Shift Point - Normal/3rd to 4th_Normal:

00.00% = 52 MPH
06.25% = 52.5 MPH
12.50% = 56 MPH
18.75% = 64 MPH
25.00% = 74 MPH
31.25% = 86 MPH
37.50% = 96 MPH
43.75% = 104 MPH
50.00% = 110 MPH
56.25% = 115 MPH
62.50% = 119 MPH
68.75% = 122 MPH
75.00% = 125 MPH
81.25% = 127 MPH
87.50% = 128 MPH
93.75% = 129 MPH
100.0% = 129 MPH

Calibration Data/Transmission/Shift Point - Normal/2nd to 1st_Normal:

00.00% = 14 MPH
06.25% = 14 MPH
12.50% = 14 MPH
18.75% = 14 MPH
25.00% = 14 MPH
31.25% = 14.5 MPH
37.50% = 15 MPH
43.75% = 16 MPH
50.00% = 18 MPH
56.25% = 21 MPH
62.50% = 24 MPH
68.75% = 27 MPH
75.00% = 30 MPH
81.25% = 32 MPH
87.50% = 34 MPH
93.75% = 35 MPH
100.0% = 35 MPH

Calibration Data/Transmission/Shift Point - Normal/3rd to 2nd_Normal:

00.00% = 25 MPH
06.25% = 25 MPH
12.50% = 25.5 MPH
18.75% = 27 MPH
25.00% = 29.5 MPH
31.25% = 32.5 MPH
37.50% = 36.5 MPH
43.75% = 41 MPH
50.00% = 46 MPH
56.25% = 51 MPH
62.50% = 55 MPH
68.75% = 59 MPH
75.00% = 63 MPH
81.25% = 66 MPH
87.50% = 69 MPH
93.75% = 70 MPH
100.0% = 70 MPH

Calibration Data/Transmission/Shift Point - Normal/4th to 3rd_Normal:

00.00% = 35 MPH
06.25% = 35 MPH
12.50% = 37 MPH
18.75% = 42 MPH
25.00% = 49 MPH
31.25% = 56 MPH
37.50% = 63 MPH
43.75% = 69 MPH
50.00% = 75 MPH
56.25% = 81 MPH
62.50% = 86 MPH
68.75% = 90 MPH
75.00% = 94 MPH
81.25% = 97 MPH
87.50% = 99 MPH
93.75% = 100 MPH
100.0% = 100 MPH

Calibration Data/Transmission/Shift Point - Normal/1st to 2nd_WOT:

48 MPH (note: if this setting trips RPM limiter, use lower value)

Calibration Data/Transmission/Shift Point - Normal/2nd to 3rd_WOT:

90 MPH (note: if this setting trips RPM limiter, use lower value)

Calibration Data/Transmission/Shift Point - Normal/3rd to 4th_WOT:

126 MPH (note: if this setting trips RPM limiter, use lower value)

Calibration Data/Transmission/Shift Point - Normal/2nd to 1st_WOT:

41 MPH

Calibration Data/Transmission/Shift Point - Normal/3rd to 2nd_WOT:

88 MPH

Calibration Data/Transmission/Shift Point - Normal/4th to 3rd_WOT:

128 MPH

Calibration Data/Transmission/Shift Point - Normal/1st to 2nd_RPM:

5700 RPM

Calibration Data/Transmission/Shift Point - Normal/2nd to 3rd_RPM:

5700 RPM

Calibration Data/Transmission/Shift Point - Normal/3rd to 4th_RPM:

4700 RPM


Calibration Data/Transmission/Shift Pressure/2nd Base:

Step 00 = 2 PSI
Step 01 = 2 PSI
Step 02 = 2 PSI
Step 03 = 2 PSI
Step 04 = 5 PSI
Step 05 = 7 PSI
Step 06 = 11 PSI
Step 07 = 17 PSI
Step 08 = 20 PSI
Step 09 = 22 PSI
Step 10 = 25 PSI
Step 11 = 28 PSI
Step 12 = 32 PSI
Step 13 = 36 PSI
Step 14 = 40 PSI
Step 15 = 43 PSI
Step 16 = 45 PSI
Step 17 = 47 PSI
Step 18= 49.5 PSI
Step 19 = 53 PSI
Step 20 = 57 PSI
Step 21 = 60.75 PSI
Step 22 = 64.75 PSI
Step 23 = 69 PSI
Step 24 = 73.25 PSI
Step 25 = 77.5 PSI
Step 26 = 82 PSI
Step 27 = 86.75 PSI
Step 28 = 91.5 PSI
Step 29 = 96 PSI
Step 30 = 96 PSI
Step 31 = 96 PSI
Step 32 = 96 PSI

Calibration Data/Transmission/Shift Pressure/3rd Base:

Step 00 = 2 PSI
Step 01 = 2 PSI
Step 02 = 2 PSI
Step 03 = 2 PSI
Step 04 = 2 PSI
Step 05 = 5 PSI
Step 06 = 7 PSI
Step 07 = 11 PSI
Step 08 = 17 PSI
Step 09 = 20 PSI
Step 10 = 22 PSI
Step 11 = 25 PSI
Step 12 = 28 PSI
Step 13 = 32 PSI
Step 14 = 36 PSI
Step 15 = 40 PSI
Step 16 = 43 PSI
Step 17 = 45 PSI
Step 18 = 47 PSI
Step 19= 49.5 PSI
Step 20 = 53 PSI
Step 21 = 57 PSI
Step 22 = 60.75 PSI
Step 23 = 64.75 PSI
Step 24 = 69 PSI
Step 25 = 73.25 PSI
Step 26 = 77.5 PSI
Step 27 = 82 PSI
Step 28 = 86.75 PSI
Step 29 = 91.5 PSI
Step 30 = 96 PSI
Step 31 = 96 PSI
Step 32 = 96 PSI

Calibration Data/Transmission/Shift Pressure/4th Base:

Step 00 = 2 PSI
Step 01 = 2 PSI
Step 02 = 2 PSI
Step 03 = 2 PSI
Step 04 = 2 PSI
Step 05 = 2 PSI
Step 06 = 2 PSI
Step 07 = 5 PSI
Step 08 = 7 PSI
Step 09 = 11 PSI
Step 10 = 17 PSI
Step 11 = 20 PSI
Step 12 = 22 PSI
Step 13 = 25 PSI
Step 14 = 28 PSI
Step 15 = 32 PSI
Step 16 = 36 PSI
Step 17 = 40 PSI
Step 18 = 43 PSI
Step 19= 45 PSI
Step 20 = 47 PSI
Step 21 = 49.5 PSI
Step 22 = 53 PSI
Step 23 = 57 PSI
Step 24 = 60.75 PSI
Step 25 = 64.75 PSI
Step 26 = 69 PSI
Step 27 = 73.25 PSI
Step 28 = 77.5 PSI
Step 29 = 82 PSI
Step 30 = 86.75 PSI
Step 31 = 91.5 PSI
Step 32 = 96 PSI


Calibration Data/Transmission/Shift Time/1st to 2nd_Normal:

Step 00 = 0.01 Sec
Step 02 = 0.01 Sec
Step 04 = 0.01 Sec
Step 06 = 0.01 Sec
Step 08 = 0.01 Sec
Step 10 = 0.01 Sec
Step 12 = 0.01 Sec
Step 14 = 0.01 Sec
Step 16 = 0.01 Sec
Step 18 = 0.01 Sec
Step 20 = 0.01 Sec
Step 22 = 0.01 Sec
Step 24 = 0.01 Sec
Step 26 = 0.01 Sec
Step 28 = 0.01 Sec
Step 30 = 0.01 Sec
Step 32 = 0.01 Sec

Calibration Data/Transmission/Shift Time/2nd to 3rd_Normal:

Step 00 = 0.01 Sec
Step 02 = 0.01 Sec
Step 04 = 0.01 Sec
Step 06 = 0.01 Sec
Step 08 = 0.01 Sec
Step 10 = 0.01 Sec
Step 12 = 0.01 Sec
Step 14 = 0.01 Sec
Step 16 = 0.01 Sec
Step 18 = 0.01 Sec
Step 20 = 0.01 Sec
Step 22 = 0.01 Sec
Step 24 = 0.01 Sec
Step 26 = 0.01 Sec
Step 28 = 0.01 Sec
Step 30 = 0.01 Sec
Step 32 = 0.01 Sec

Calibration Data/Transmission/Shift Time/3rd to 4th_Normal:

Step 00 = 0.01 Sec
Step 02 = 0.01 Sec
Step 04 = 0.01 Sec
Step 06 = 0.01 Sec
Step 08 = 0.01 Sec
Step 10 = 0.01 Sec
Step 12 = 0.01 Sec
Step 14 = 0.01 Sec
Step 16 = 0.01 Sec
Step 18 = 0.01 Sec
Step 20 = 0.01 Sec
Step 22 = 0.01 Sec
Step 24 = 0.01 Sec
Step 26 = 0.01 Sec
Step 28 = 0.01 Sec
Step 30 = 0.01 Sec
Step 32 = 0.01 Sec


Calibration Data/Transmission/TCC/Apply 3rd_Normal:

00.00% = 32 MPH
06.25% = 32.5 MPH
12.50% = 35 MPH
18.75% = 41 MPH
25.00% = 58 MPH
31.25% = 255 MPH
37.50% = 255 MPH
43.75% = 255 MPH
50.00% = 255 MPH
56.25% = 255 MPH
62.50% = 255 MPH
68.75% = 255 MPH
75.00% = 255 MPH
81.25% = 255 MPH
87.50% = 255 MPH
93.75% = 255 MPH
100.0% = 255 MPH

Calibration Data/Transmission/TCC/Apply 4th_Normal:

00.00% = 55 MPH
06.25% = 55.5 MPH
12.50% = 59 MPH
18.75% = 67 MPH
25.00% = 79 MPH
31.25% = 105 MPH
37.50% = 255 MPH
43.75% = 255 MPH
50.00% = 255 MPH
56.25% = 255 MPH
62.50% = 255 MPH
68.75% = 255 MPH
75.00% = 255 MPH
81.25% = 255 MPH
87.50% = 255 MPH
93.75% = 255 MPH
100.0% = 255 MPH

Calibration Data/Transmission/TCC/Release 3rd_Normal:

00.00% = 26 MPH
06.25% = 27 MPH
12.50% = 30 MPH
18.75% = 35.5 MPH
25.00% = 44 MPH
31.25% = 58 MPH
37.50% = 76 MPH
43.75% = 95 MPH
50.00% = 116 MPH
56.25% = 139 MPH
62.50% = 254 MPH
68.75% = 254 MPH
75.00% = 254 MPH
81.25% = 254 MPH
87.50% = 254 MPH
93.75% = 254 MPH
100.0% = 254 MPH

Calibration Data/Transmission/TCC/Release 4th_Normal:

00.00% = 39 MPH
06.25% = 43 MPH
12.50% = 51 MPH
18.75% = 62 MPH
25.00% = 74 MPH
31.25% = 88 MPH
37.50% = 104 MPH
43.75% = 122 MPH
50.00% = 142 MPH
56.25% = 164 MPH
62.50% = 188 MPH
68.75% = 255 MPH
75.00% = 255 MPH
81.25% = 255 MPH
87.50% = 255 MPH
93.75% = 255 MPH
100.0% = 255 MPH


Calibration Data/Transmission/Torque Mgmt/2nd to 1st_Downshift:

Step 00 = 0%
Step 02 = 0%
Step 04 = 2%
Step 06 = 5%
Step 08 = 5%
Step 10 = 5%
Step 12 = 5%
Step 14 = 5%
Step 16 = 5%
Step 18 = 5%
Step 20 = 5%
Step 22 = 5%
Step 24 = 5%
Step 26 = 5%
Step 28 = 5%
Step 30 = 5%
Step 32 = 5%

Calibration Data/Transmission/Torque Mgmt/3rd to 2nd_Downshift:

Step 00 = 0%
Step 02 = 0%
Step 04 = 2%
Step 06 = 5%
Step 08 = 5%
Step 10 = 5%
Step 12 = 5%
Step 14 = 5%
Step 16 = 5%
Step 18 = 5%
Step 20 = 5%
Step 22 = 5%
Step 24 = 5%
Step 26 = 5%
Step 28 = 5%
Step 30 = 5%
Step 32 = 5%

Calibration Data/Transmission/Torque Mgmt/4th to 3rd_Downshift:

Step 00 = 0%
Step 02 = 0%
Step 04 = 2%
Step 06 = 5%
Step 08 = 5%
Step 10 = 5%
Step 12 = 5%
Step 14 = 5%
Step 16 = 5%
Step 18 = 5%
Step 20 = 5%
Step 22 = 5%
Step 24 = 5%
Step 26 = 5%
Step 28 = 5%
Step 30 = 5%
Step 32 = 5%

Calibration Data/Transmission/Torque Mgmt/1st to 2nd_Upshift:

Step 00 = 0%
Step 02 = 0%
Step 04 = 0%
Step 06 = 0%
Step 08 = 9.9%
Step 10 = 12%
Step 12 = 10.5%
Step 14 = 10.2%
Step 16 = 8.5%
Step 18 = 7.6%
Step 20 = 5.7%
Step 22 = 5%
Step 24 = 5%
Step 26 = 5%
Step 28 = 5%
Step 30 = 5%
Step 32 = 5%

Calibration Data/Transmission/Torque Mgmt/2nd to 3rd_Upshift:

Step 00 = 0%
Step 02 = 0%
Step 04 = 0%
Step 06 = 0%
Step 08 = 13.5%
Step 10 = 12%
Step 12 = 10.5%
Step 14 = 15%
Step 16 = 15%
Step 18 = 15%
Step 20 = 15%
Step 22 = 15%
Step 24 = 15%
Step 26 = 15%
Step 28 = 15%
Step 30 = 15%
Step 32 = 15%

Calibration Data/Transmission/Torque Mgmt/3rd to 4th_Upshift:

Step 00 = 0%
Step 02 = 0%
Step 04 = 3.6%
Step 06 = 4.8%
Step 08 = 4.2%
Step 10 = 3.6%
Step 12 = 4.5%
Step 14 = 15%
Step 16 = 15%
Step 18 = 15%
Step 20 = 15%
Step 22 = 15%
Step 24 = 15%
Step 26 = 15%
Step 28 = 15%
Step 30 = 15%
Step 32 = 15%


Last edited by AA on Sun Aug 17, 2014 1:44 pm; edited 2 times in total
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PostSubject: Re: Shift Points   Tue Apr 14, 2009 12:56 am

Calibration Data/Transmission/Torque Mgmt/Max Turbine Tq_Unlocked:

Gear 1

RPM 0000 = 1279
RPM 0400 = 1279
RPM 0800 = 1279
RPM 1200 = 1279
RPM 1600 = 1279
RPM 2000 = 1279
RPM 2400 = 1279
RPM 2800 = 1279
RPM 3200 = 1279
RPM 3600 = 1279
RPM 4000 = 1279
RPM 4400 = 1279
RPM 4800 = 1279
RPM 5200 = 1279
RPM 5600 = 1279
RPM 6000 = 1279
RPM 6400 = 1279

Gear 2

RPM 0000 = 384
RPM 0400 = 384
RPM 0800 = 384
RPM 1200 = 384
RPM 1600 = 1279
RPM 2000 = 1279
RPM 2400 = 1279
RPM 2800 = 1279
RPM 3200 = 1279
RPM 3600 = 1279
RPM 4000 = 1279
RPM 4400 = 1279
RPM 4800 = 1279
RPM 5200 = 1279
RPM 5600 = 1279
RPM 6000 = 1279
RPM 6400 = 1279

Gear 3

RPM 0000 = 384
RPM 0400 = 384
RPM 0800 = 384
RPM 1200 = 384
RPM 1600 = 1279
RPM 2000 = 1279
RPM 2400 = 1279
RPM 2800 = 1279
RPM 3200 = 1279
RPM 3600 = 1279
RPM 4000 = 1279
RPM 4400 = 1279
RPM 4800 = 1279
RPM 5200 = 1279
RPM 5600 = 1279
RPM 6000 = 1279
RPM 6400 = 1279

Gear 4

RPM 0000 = 384
RPM 0400 = 384
RPM 0800 = 384
RPM 1200 = 384
RPM 1600 = 1279
RPM 2000 = 1279
RPM 2400 = 1279
RPM 2800 = 1279
RPM 3200 = 1279
RPM 3600 = 1279
RPM 4000 = 1279
RPM 4400 = 1279
RPM 4800 = 1279
RPM 5200 = 1279
RPM 5600 = 1279
RPM 6000 = 1279
RPM 6400 = 1279

Calibration Data/Transmission/Torque Mgmt/Brake Torque Limit:

Gear 1 = 400 ft/lb
Gear 2 = 450 ft/lb
Gear 3 = 500 ft/lb
Gear 4 = 500 ft/lb

Calibration Data/Transmission/Torque Mgmt/Max Engine Tq_Upshift:

Gear 1

RPM 2800 = 516
RPM 3200 = 440
RPM 3600 = 368.01
RPM 4000 = 284
RPM 4400 = 200
RPM 4800 = 144
RPM 5200 = 144
RPM 5600 = 120
RPM 6000 = 91.99
RPM 6400 = 91.99
RPM 6800 = 91.99
RPM 7200 = 91.99


The above program will do the following:

Decrease shift times across the RPM range
Increase shift firmness gradually as engine load increases
Downshift with less throttle application across the RPM range
Upshift at higher RPMs for all throttle positions and vehicle speeds
Keep RPM higher at slow vehicle speed (ex: throttle out of turn)
Allow longer shifts at WOT (raised RPM points)
More easily exit TCC lock-up at speed (better passing acceleration)
Less easily enter TCC lock-up at speed
Allow use of 4th (no TCC lock) gear more often
Improved cruise control TCC settings for low RPM operation (fuel economy +)
Decrease the need to manually shift (1, 2, 3 lock-out)

If anyone uses my program, please provide feedback. I've worked on getting it right for a long time. It's not quite perfect, but it is close to ideal for me. Any suggestions are appreciated.

Thanks! Hope you enjoy.

_________________
'98 SC Riviera 268k miles 298 HP/370 TQ 0-60: 5.79s ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 4087 lb 20.1 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley AL104 plugs 180 t-stat FWI w/K&N 1.9:1 rockers OR pushrods LS6 valve springs SLP headers ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts MaxAir shocks Addco sway bars UMI bushings GM STB Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus SS lines Brembo slotted discs DHP tuned Aeroforce Hidden Hitch


'05 GTO 49k miles 0-60: 4.8s 16.9 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
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PostSubject: Re: Shift Points   Thu Mar 18, 2010 11:47 am

Aaron, thanks for posting your trans settings. i uploaded some of them to my riv last night and wow it's a different car!
I can not change the pressure settings on the 96 nor do i have a cruse shift option, but everything else i messed with.
I did have to back down the shift rpm b/c i was seeing it shift at 52mph/5880rpm which was a little too high for my taste with stock springs.
Also, and maybe this is just b/c i dont have the cruse settings, but i had to adjust the 3-4 shift mph b/c i was not getting it to lock up and go into OD while cruising at 50mph like before. my trans temps kept climbing and rpms were at 2500 at 50mph so i had to lower the shift point there.
Other than that i really like how long it holds 1st gear and the change in responsiveness downshifting at low TPS.
Thanks again!
Matthew

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PostSubject: Re: Shift Points   Thu Mar 18, 2010 12:33 pm

I need to get some of those parameters / changes done to my PCM.
Specifically being able to downshift with a smaller percentage of throttle movement.
I have already had the 3rd gear TCC lock up disabled and for my style of driving and the country road speeds that I encounter daily, it's great. Turned out to be a very good change for me and where I spend most of my driving time except when on the highway, naturally. My local driving is between 25 and 45 mph and 3rd gear TCC lockup was a real drag on the engine. Not anymore, and my gas mileage hasn't dropped, if anything i seem to have picked up 1-2 mpg's on average since the last changes, which were all trans related, I believe.
Next time I ask Derek to do some tuning for me I'd like to incorporate more of your tables.


Last edited by Rickw on Thu Mar 18, 2010 12:41 pm; edited 2 times in total
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PostSubject: Re: Shift Points   Thu Mar 18, 2010 12:39 pm

Glad you like it! It's not perfect, but I've learned to enjoy it. I'm glad someone else has given it a try, as I put a lot of testing into the program.

The TCC settings are intended to prevent lock-up when driving with the pedal, but of you initiate cruise control, and use the cruise settings listed, you will be able to lock-up 4th gear with TC at 46 MPH at ~1100 RPM... a hyper-miler's wet dream!

You may try reloading the TCC parameters and see if you can get it to work with the stock settings and cruise control active. I prefer to have the choice between performance and economy driving, controlled by the cruise control button.

My favorite part is the ease in downshifting. At lower speeds, the stock program will almost never drop into 1st gear out of corners, so you find yourself bogging a little. Thankfully we have lots of torque down low. But at 10-15 MPH at very sharp corners, I like to be able to drop into 1st and ferociously power out of the turn. Same with higher speed turns in 2nd gear.

The reason I did this - I have nearly lost control in the past, during hard turns when a downshift occurred, because it takes so much throttle % and the shift is so abrupt! With earlier downshifts, the shifting is much smoother, plus you get to use the upper RPM band (more power), and the later upshift values means you can stay in the band until you let off the accelerator. This is great for autocross or track racing, and even on the street, imo.

_________________
'98 SC Riviera 268k miles 298 HP/370 TQ 0-60: 5.79s ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 4087 lb 20.1 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley AL104 plugs 180 t-stat FWI w/K&N 1.9:1 rockers OR pushrods LS6 valve springs SLP headers ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts MaxAir shocks Addco sway bars UMI bushings GM STB Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus SS lines Brembo slotted discs DHP tuned Aeroforce Hidden Hitch


'05 GTO 49k miles 0-60: 4.8s 16.9 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
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PostSubject: Re: Shift Points   Thu Mar 18, 2010 12:49 pm

AA wrote:

My favorite part is the ease in downshifting. At lower speeds, the stock program will almost never drop into 1st gear out of corners, so you find yourself bogging a little. Thankfully we have lots of torque down low. But at 10-15 MPH at very sharp corners, I like to be able to drop into 1st and ferociously power out of the turn. Same with higher speed turns in 2nd gear.

The reason I did this - I have nearly lost control in the past, during hard turns when a downshift occurred, because it takes so much throttle % and the shift is so abrupt! With earlier downshifts, the shifting is much smoother, plus you get to use the upper RPM band (more power), and the later upshift values means you can stay in the band until you let off the accelerator. This is great for autocross or track racing, and even on the street, imo.
The above is exactly what i want for the street as I experience the same "problems" with the stock settings and find myself below the power band when trying to accelerate at lower speeds and have to apply a lot of throttle to get it to respond which then gives you too much of an abrupt change. This especially annoying while in a turn or trying to merge from a short on ramp up to highway speeds. Just not in the power band until that downshift takes place and in my opinion it should happen sooner with less throttle and i also think it would be less harsh for the Transmission itself.
Want it to be more linear in performance during acceleration, If you know what i mean. And again I also think it will be more efficient on gasoline consumption.
I know what i want, but not having used the software yet i can't always speak the correct language.
I think before I invest in the rest of the parts needed to do the GEN V swap I'm going to buy tuning software so I can get up to speed on the correct language as well as get through the learning curve of tuning as soon as possible.
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PostSubject: Re: Shift Points   Thu Mar 18, 2010 1:24 pm

I've been running Aaron's settings, slightly modified(?), for a couple years now. Couldn't be happier. It's like a totally different car than when I bought it.
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PostSubject: Re: Shift Points   Wed Jun 02, 2010 10:24 pm

Thanks, AA
I replicated most of the transmission settings as in your bin. I kept my modified shift pressure tables that I sort of barrowed from another tune which look a bit more extreme on the table that what you have, and torque reduction for shifts as well because it looks like you reduced your torque reduction a good bit. The idea of that seems... abusive. What are you thoughts there? I do like the shift speeds so far. I haven't really messed with my TCC or part throttle shift speeds at all so this is pretty neat. I definitely love the downshift settings!
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PostSubject: Re: Shift Points   Wed Jun 02, 2010 11:15 pm

Loosing TM = abusive? Sure it is. Pushing the throttle hard? Same, it's all a relative thing. Here is how I like think of torque management (TM):

1) When you mod the car, you want to make more power.

2) When you tune the shifting program, you want to make shifts A) quicker, and B) firmer.

3) TM basically limits power (cuts timing), and makes shifts A)slower (delays shift time), and B) softer (lowers shift pressure).

So we must ask the question: why modify for power and better shifting behavior if TM is going to sit in the way and keep us from getting the desired results?

One option is to leave TM alone, totally stock. You'll find that it's harder to get fast, firm shifts, even if you lesson shift times and max out the shift pressures, especially at WOT. You'll also notice there is significant power loss right after an upshift or downshift. Eventually if comes, but waiting on power delivery can be annoying.

Another option is to remove TM entirely, using only shift time and pressure settings to tune the behavior of the trans. If you aren't careful, you can get some real jolts during shifting, and the hard parts may fail over time. However, the clutches won't wear as much, as there is a lot less slip.

What I did is study what was done to the DHP 1.5 BIN with regard to TM, both for perf shift and normal modes. I also studied the stock program for TM in perf shift and normal modes. I tested both to feel the differences. Then I took the parts I liked from both and put together a program that works with both my daily driving style and track needs.

Basically, I set my shifts to become more and more aggressive as throttle increases. At low speeds and easy throttle, the settings are much like the stock program, but a little firmer. As throttle increases, I programmed the shifts to become quicker and firmer, until at WOT where it's all about power delivery (as it should be). What I found is at some point the program wasn't giving the results I wanted (shifts weren't aggressive enough), so I tried decreasing TM, and bingo - I saw the results. In the end, I decreased TM only enough get the performance I wanted.

It's possible to get a lot of power delivered during a shift, chirping tires, etc. But I didn't take it that far. I only wanted the transmission to shift in a way that didn't feel like it was holding back the engine's ability to deliver power. I am very happy with the results so far. There is still some TM doing its thing, just not as much, and I kept a lot more TM in the area used for normal driving; where TM is most lowered is for WOT.

Quote :
I haven't really messed with my TCC or part throttle shift speeds at all so this is pretty neat. I definitely love the downshift settings!
I really can't support using part of the program, or combining it with another guy's program. My advice is installing all of the values exactly as listed, then if you want more TM, adjust the values back to the direction of stock. It helped me to use MS Excel to graph the curves for a better visual understanding of what's going on.

_________________
'98 SC Riviera 268k miles 298 HP/370 TQ 0-60: 5.79s ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 4087 lb 20.1 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley AL104 plugs 180 t-stat FWI w/K&N 1.9:1 rockers OR pushrods LS6 valve springs SLP headers ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts MaxAir shocks Addco sway bars UMI bushings GM STB Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus SS lines Brembo slotted discs DHP tuned Aeroforce Hidden Hitch


'05 GTO 49k miles 0-60: 4.8s 16.9 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
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PostSubject: Re: Shift Points   Wed Jun 02, 2010 11:50 pm

Aaron, I think you just answered a question I've had for a little while... Just to be clear:

The "torque management" is not just literally cutting the torque from the engine with timing/boost/fuel/whatever? It also affects the speed & firmness of the shifts in the tranny, which are already adjusted via their own settings?

Oy vey - Sounds like a Pandora's box! No wonder you said in Derek's thread that there are a thousand parameters that can be tuned...

nervous
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PostSubject: Re: Shift Points   Thu Jun 03, 2010 12:40 am

I don't think anyone really knows exactly how TM does what it does, but many believe it does whatever it wants to by varying timing, shift times, and trans fluid pressures. I do know this: when TM was lowered, I saw quicker and firmer shifts, without touching either of those values. Similarly, I didn't get as quickness and firmness without lowering TM. Just my experience. I know just enough to be dangerous.

_________________
'98 SC Riviera 268k miles 298 HP/370 TQ 0-60: 5.79s ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 4087 lb 20.1 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley AL104 plugs 180 t-stat FWI w/K&N 1.9:1 rockers OR pushrods LS6 valve springs SLP headers ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts MaxAir shocks Addco sway bars UMI bushings GM STB Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus SS lines Brembo slotted discs DHP tuned Aeroforce Hidden Hitch


'05 GTO 49k miles 0-60: 4.8s 16.9 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun
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PostSubject: Re: Shift Points   Thu Jun 03, 2010 12:55 am

AA wrote:
I know just enough to be dangerous.

Don't we all? rotf
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PostSubject: Re: Shift Points   Thu Jun 03, 2010 10:04 pm

AA, did you change anything on the tune after you had your rebuild and shift kit removed? I forgot that I have a shift kit installed. Does that change anything?
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PostSubject: Re: Shift Points   Fri Jun 04, 2010 1:07 pm

Mine is tuned for having no shift kit (OEM). Yours will be more firm, so you can increase the torque management to suit your preference. It will take a couple tries to dial it in. Take some notes!

_________________
'98 SC Riviera 268k miles 298 HP/370 TQ 0-60: 5.79s ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 4087 lb 20.1 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley AL104 plugs 180 t-stat FWI w/K&N 1.9:1 rockers OR pushrods LS6 valve springs SLP headers ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts MaxAir shocks Addco sway bars UMI bushings GM STB Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus SS lines Brembo slotted discs DHP tuned Aeroforce Hidden Hitch


'05 GTO 49k miles 0-60: 4.8s 16.9 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun
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PostSubject: Re: Shift Points   Fri Jun 04, 2010 2:01 pm

I applied your pressure table and the torque reduction settings. With that change, I'd actually say the low throttle shifting is more tame than with those two tables as they were on my tune. A little less torque reduction with a little less line pressure. Although after looking more, your reduction is not grossely far from stock at low throttle which makes sense. We want to firm it up when we want the speed.

Really the only table that I didn't change to your setting yet and mostly because I don't understand it fully is the "Force Motor Current" positive and negative tables because I had a gut feeling that mine and yours aren't the same stock. Did you change that on your tune, AA? I've looked at many 3800 tunes and those are always a little different stock, it seems.
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PostSubject: Re: Shift Points   Fri Jun 04, 2010 2:20 pm

I don't know what the "Force Motor Current" tables are. I don't see it listed in the tables I posted on the previous page. Whatever they are, If they're different than stock, it was part of the DHP 1.5 BIN.

_________________
'98 SC Riviera 268k miles 298 HP/370 TQ 0-60: 5.79s ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 4087 lb 20.1 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley AL104 plugs 180 t-stat FWI w/K&N 1.9:1 rockers OR pushrods LS6 valve springs SLP headers ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts MaxAir shocks Addco sway bars UMI bushings GM STB Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus SS lines Brembo slotted discs DHP tuned Aeroforce Hidden Hitch


'05 GTO 49k miles 0-60: 4.8s 16.9 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun
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