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 Write Up: Transmission Fluid & Filter Change

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deekster_caddy
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PostSubject: Re: Write Up: Transmission Fluid & Filter Change   Fri Nov 14, 2008 3:22 pm

O-rings for what?

There is an annoying tip end thing on the filter that will ruin the whole job for you, but no O-rings that I'm aware of.
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PostSubject: Re: Write Up: Transmission Fluid & Filter Change   Fri Nov 14, 2008 7:26 pm

Do not use RTV, if any of it makes contact with the fluid it will dissolve and end up in the transmission.

Bert tavis
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PostSubject: Re: Write Up: Transmission Fluid & Filter Change   Sat Nov 15, 2008 10:13 pm

I just did this last night on my '96 and I went to the stealer and paid up for and original gasket. Torqued the pan gasket bolts 12-13ft lbs and put it 6.5 qts of valvoline dex111/merc. The worst part of the job is getting that goddamm seal out of the tranny where the filter plugs into!
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PostSubject: Re: Write Up: Transmission Fluid & Filter Change   Tue Jun 30, 2009 7:49 pm

Just finished changing my transmission filter and fluid for the second time since i got my riv. I try to do it every 30k, and my fluid was loosing its red color. It's a simple job, but i figured there still should be a write-up on here.

I used 6.5qts of the new dexron VI fluid and a napa filter which comes with a new oem style gasket (beware of the cork ones). expect to pay around $80 in oil and a filter to do this yourself. i DO NOT recommend having your transmission flushed. Simply changing the filter and half the fluid will be safer and still keep your trans happy and alive.

A big thanks to TType_Riviera for making this write-up!

Servicing filter and fluid in your trans is pretty simple, a little time
consuming considering there's no drain plug in the pan, however there is a drain
plug above the pan, up near the passenger side cv joint, but that wont get all
your fluid out.

If your trans seems sluggish, shifts funny, fluid smells burnt, and is a dingy
brown color, chances are a filter and fluid change is in order. Your torque
converter probably holds a good 5 quarts by itself, which you cant drain. If your
fluid is really burnt, I would recommend doing it again soon. By doing this service,
your increasing the life of your trans a great deal.

Tools and Misc things needed.

Jack and jack stands
drain pan
rags
few cans of brake clean
1/4" drive ratchet, extension and a 10MM socket
7 quarts of new trans fluid (Dexcron/Mercon ONLY)
new filter, gasket and filter seal (comes as a kit)




Start by putting the car on your jack stands. Slide the drain pan under the
corner of the pan shown below. Start removing the bolts on that corner, once you
have about 5 of them out, only loosen the next few, and you should start seeing
fluid drip out of that corner, loosen a few more untill there's a pretty good
stream, and let it completely drain.



Once it is drained, start removing more bolts, when you come to the last 6 or 7
support the pan tight against the trans while removing the rest of the bolts, as
there still some fluid in the pan, once removed carefully lower the pan down an
dump the rest of the fluid in the pan.



Next remove the old filter, and filter seal. The filter is easily removed, just
simply pull an turn it a little an is should slide right out. Now the filter
seal is probably going to be a slight pain, and you'll probably ruin it before you
get it out. Use a flat head screw driver, to cave the side of it in, then just
simply grab it with some pliers an work it out, doing your best not to score the
inside surface.




Next clean your pan really good with brake clean, cleaning all dirt off the
gasket surface, and the magnet in the far corner, then let dry. Then take the new
filter seal from the filter kit, and push it into the port, you will probably need
to tap it very softly with something to push it in completely. I used a socket
the same diameter as the seal, and it went right it. Next slide in the new
filter, it may take some force but it will go, tap it until it stops, it should
fit in the area nicely.




Next take the pan and the new gasket and fit it to the shape of the pan. Take 4
pan bolts and push them through the holes and through the gasket, they should fit
very tightly in the gasket, thus keeping the gasket aligned for an easy
reinstallation. Be sure to spread the bolts evenly, as shown in the picture. The
filter kit will come with either a rubber or cork gasket. They say the rubber
gaskets can be reused, and are usually installed from the factory. I was a little
weary about reusing the gasket, and just used the new one. You don't need any kind
of sealer on this application, and NEVER use sealer on a cork gasket, it WILL
leak.


Now clean the gasket surface of the trans with some brake clean or paint thinner
will work, by wetting a rag. Then lift the pan and gasket in to place an start
each of the 4 bolts, and lightly snug them, and then install the rest of the
bolts. Once all of them are snug start in the center of the pan an moderately
tighten the bolts, crossing back and forth working your way to each end. After
that go back through an give each bolt a light tweak assuring there all
tightened fairly even.

Drop the car back down on the wheels, pull the trans dip stick, set it aside,
grab
a small funnel, and proceed to dump in at least 5 quarts for now. after all 5
quarts are in, start the car and let the trans get warm, then run it through each
gear 3-5 times. This will pump the fluid around where it needs to be so you can
get an accurate reading on the dip stick. It took about 7 quarts to completely
fill mine, but id suggest adding fluid a little at a time so you don't over fill
it just in case yours doesn't need 7. Once the right oil level is reached, check
for leaks, an easily drive around the block, come back an give it one more
check, you may have to add a touch. Check for leaks again. After a few hundred
miles I would check the pan bolts again most likely they will need a small turn.


This should fix your sluggishness an problems with shifting, if not you have
bigger problems, and should see a professional trans shop.

If done correctly, you should have the end results of a smooth running, smooth
shifting, and cooler running trans and a better responding trans as well. Good
Luck to whom ever gives this a go there self, Remember All of us here on the
board are always here to help!!!!

_________________
1996 with 244k miles, L324" FWI -> ported N* -> Ported Gen V w/3.0" Pulley, Stage 3 Phenolic I/C, ZZP FMHE, 1.84 RR, Headers and 3" pipe to mufflers, F-body brakes, and lowered on Eibachs.
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PostSubject: Re: Write Up: Transmission Fluid & Filter Change   Tue Jun 30, 2009 7:56 pm

Forgot to mention, always check the magnet for metal particles. it is a good indicator as to how well your transmission is holding up.
Here is mine after 40k pretty hard miles. Just a thin layer of metallic sludge.



Oh, and i have a spare oem gasket if anyone needs it. i wasnt sure what shape it was in so i got a new one, but they are reusable and mine looks good still.

_________________
1996 with 244k miles, L324" FWI -> ported N* -> Ported Gen V w/3.0" Pulley, Stage 3 Phenolic I/C, ZZP FMHE, 1.84 RR, Headers and 3" pipe to mufflers, F-body brakes, and lowered on Eibachs.
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PostSubject: Re: Write Up: Transmission Fluid & Filter Change   Sun Mar 07, 2010 7:08 pm

Anyone have torque specs for the pan bolts? My shop manuals are hiding from me!

_________________
'98 SC Riviera 268k miles 298 HP/370 TQ 0-60: 5.79s ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 4087 lb 20.1 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley AL104 plugs 180 t-stat FWI w/K&N 1.9:1 rockers OR pushrods LS6 valve springs SLP headers ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts MaxAir shocks Addco sway bars UMI bushings GM STB Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus SS lines Brembo slotted discs DHP tuned Aeroforce Hidden Hitch


'05 GTO 49k miles 0-60: 4.8s 16.9 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun
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PostSubject: Re: Write Up: Transmission Fluid & Filter Change   Sun Mar 07, 2010 7:15 pm

will post them when i get home unless someone beats me to it. the numbers i have are for the 4t60 though.

_________________
1996 with 244k miles, L324" FWI -> ported N* -> Ported Gen V w/3.0" Pulley, Stage 3 Phenolic I/C, ZZP FMHE, 1.84 RR, Headers and 3" pipe to mufflers, F-body brakes, and lowered on Eibachs.
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PostSubject: Re: Write Up: Transmission Fluid & Filter Change   Sun Mar 07, 2010 8:42 pm

I used 11 lb-ft. Seemed to feel right. I'll re-torque to spec in a couple weeks, when I have the real spec.

_________________
'98 SC Riviera 268k miles 298 HP/370 TQ 0-60: 5.79s ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 4087 lb 20.1 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley AL104 plugs 180 t-stat FWI w/K&N 1.9:1 rockers OR pushrods LS6 valve springs SLP headers ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts MaxAir shocks Addco sway bars UMI bushings GM STB Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus SS lines Brembo slotted discs DHP tuned Aeroforce Hidden Hitch


'05 GTO 49k miles 0-60: 4.8s 16.9 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun
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PostSubject: Re: Write Up: Transmission Fluid & Filter Change   Sun Mar 07, 2010 10:40 pm

AA wrote:
Anyone have torque specs for the pan bolts? My shop manuals are hiding from me!

97 INCH lbs.
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PostSubject: Re: Write Up: Transmission Fluid & Filter Change   Mon Mar 08, 2010 12:07 am

Or... 8 lb-ft, thanks. However, I didn't twist any off!

_________________
'98 SC Riviera 268k miles 298 HP/370 TQ 0-60: 5.79s ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 4087 lb 20.1 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley AL104 plugs 180 t-stat FWI w/K&N 1.9:1 rockers OR pushrods LS6 valve springs SLP headers ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts MaxAir shocks Addco sway bars UMI bushings GM STB Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus SS lines Brembo slotted discs DHP tuned Aeroforce Hidden Hitch


'05 GTO 49k miles 0-60: 4.8s 16.9 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun
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PostSubject: Re: Write Up: Transmission Fluid & Filter Change   Mon Mar 08, 2010 12:47 am

I just remembered that for a 10mm size bolt I generally go with max of 100 in. lbs. as a general rule.
Only if I really feel the need to torque something that is delicate.
Otherwise I use my calibrated arm. Always have just used my feel on things like the trans pan or oil pan, valve covers, etc.
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PostSubject: Re: Write Up: Transmission Fluid & Filter Change   Mon Mar 08, 2010 2:20 pm

AA wrote:
I used 11 lb-ft. Seemed to feel right. I'll re-torque to spec in a couple weeks, when I have the real spec.

be careful. Over tightening will easily strip the threads out of the transmission.
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PostSubject: Re: Write Up: Transmission Fluid & Filter Change   Mon Mar 08, 2010 2:44 pm

Yeah, I was trying to be careful by posting the question, but the response just didn't come in time, and it was getting dark, and cold, so I had to guess. Turns out my wife hid my shop manuals in one of 72 plastic containers in our basement, so I had no idea which one to look in (she was out of town).

What actually happened (in my case a long time ago) is the heads of the bolts will twist off, leaving the shanks embedded in the holes. I did this with a large torque wrench set to 13 lb-ft. Of the 15 or so bolts, 3 heads came off. I think I misread the manual, which actually said 13 newton-meters (9.59 lb-ft, or 115 lb-in). Being that 13 lb-ft was on the bottom of the range, I'm sure it was off by 10% or so.

I'm guessing GM used softer bolts for this reason.

Yesterday I used a smaller torque wrench set to 132 lb-in (11 lb-ft) with no issues, although next time I'll check the manual. 13 lb-ft was too much from experience, that much I remembered. So I used 11 lb-ft. I'll re-torque in a week or so, as they like to loosen up a little bit.

I don't like trusting my arm to tighten, because I always under tighten. I've tried it before, then checked with a torque wrench - I'm usually under by 25% or so. You have to be REALLY GOOD with tools to know exact torque just by feel.

_________________
'98 SC Riviera 268k miles 298 HP/370 TQ 0-60: 5.79s ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 4087 lb 20.1 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley AL104 plugs 180 t-stat FWI w/K&N 1.9:1 rockers OR pushrods LS6 valve springs SLP headers ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts MaxAir shocks Addco sway bars UMI bushings GM STB Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus SS lines Brembo slotted discs DHP tuned Aeroforce Hidden Hitch


'05 GTO 49k miles 0-60: 4.8s 16.9 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun
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PostSubject: Re: Write Up: Transmission Fluid & Filter Change   Tue Mar 09, 2010 1:31 pm

I use a 1/4" drive ratchet on those bolts, no problem so far.

Bert tavis
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PostSubject: What is the total fluid capacity of our transmission?   Fri May 21, 2010 4:27 pm

Haven't posted here in a long time, but I've been lurking. I would post more, but everyone here already knows more than me anyways. Much as the first time, I come asking for guidance. My transmission has an odd shift, I suspect it's because of the scam artists who rebuilt it didn't do a good job, but I've got this additive (I know, I know, snake oil and all that. This brand is usually pretty good), thing is, it's potent stuff, I can't put it in in concentrations greater than 1%. I doubt it will fix the problem, which is probably a mechanical issue, but it might help some.

I've found a source that said 13.4 quarts, but I've no idea how reliable there are, and many other sources seem ambiguous to whether the amount they list is the actual capacity, or simply what needs to be added back in after dropping the pan. But, I trust you guys, so I'm asking for help, again. I wish I could give something back, but I honestly just don't know that much about our cars.
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PostSubject: Re: Write Up: Transmission Fluid & Filter Change   Fri May 21, 2010 4:34 pm

If your transmission isn't shifting right after a rebuild, there is no additive that will correct it. Sorry I don't know the exact capacity of the transmission offhand.
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PostSubject: Re: Write Up: Transmission Fluid & Filter Change   Fri May 21, 2010 4:54 pm

agree
but if you've already got the stuff to add...
i believe 10qts is right for a full flush down and refill. (not recommended)
6qts for a pan drop and filter change.

http://www.extendedgmwarranty.com/owners-manual/buick/1997-Buick-Riviera.pdf


13qts is our cooling system capacity

_________________
1996 with 244k miles, L324" FWI -> ported N* -> Ported Gen V w/3.0" Pulley, Stage 3 Phenolic I/C, ZZP FMHE, 1.84 RR, Headers and 3" pipe to mufflers, F-body brakes, and lowered on Eibachs.
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PostSubject: Re: Write Up: Transmission Fluid & Filter Change   Fri May 21, 2010 5:10 pm

Guys, he's asking what the total capacity is, so that he can add up to 1% of it as additive...
13.4 quarts is what the book says the dry capacity of a '98 is,
so I would assume a '97 S/C with the 4T65-E HD would be the same.

Now come on, out with it... What additive is it that only specifies 1%?


Last edited by Eldo on Fri May 21, 2010 5:12 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Write Up: Transmission Fluid & Filter Change   Fri May 21, 2010 5:10 pm

I recently dropped the pan and filter in my 98 and it took 8 quarts to fill after.
Good Luck, hope the additive does the trick.

If you were planning on just adding additive, I would recommend dropping the pan and inspecting what's in it and changing the filter and gasket.
The oem style gasket is a metal core with rubber bonded on each side, they work much better than the paper or cork gaskets.
I got the GM filter from a friend and got the good gasket at NAPA for about $12.00, much cheaper than the dealer.
I would recommend getting both the filter and ask for the metal type gasket at NAPA.
This way you are eliminating 8 qts of bad fluid and getting to look for debris in the pan. There is a flat magnet in the pan that any ferrous metal will be attracted to.
There is a "Write Up" on here about how to do the job in case you don't know.
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PostSubject: Re: Write Up: Transmission Fluid & Filter Change   Fri May 21, 2010 5:15 pm

Eldo wrote:
Guys, he's asking what the total capacity is, so that he can add up to 1% of it as additive...
13.4 quarts is what the book says the dry capacity of a '98 is,
so I would assume a '97 S/C with the 4T65-E HD would be the same.

Now come on, out with it... What additive is it that only specifies 1%?

Straight from the 97 owners manual. page 6-70

Engine Code 1 (L67) 3.8L V-6 SF1
Automatic Transaxle
Drain and Refill ................................................................. 6 quarts (5.6 L)
Complete Overhaul ............................................................. 10 quarts (9.5 L)


no idea why it would be different than the 98+. i'll check my 97 FSM

_________________
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PostSubject: Re: Write Up: Transmission Fluid & Filter Change   Fri May 21, 2010 5:17 pm

I think the discrepancy could depend on whether or not you have a supercharged engine, which gets the HD torque converter. In '97 you had the option between SC and NA engines, but for '98 it was only SC offered.

My guess is 10 quarts fills the 4T65e, but it takes 13.4 qt to fill the 4T65e-HD, which has a physically larger torque converter. But to confuse things further, '98 owners manual says:

Engine Code 1 (L67) 3.8L V-6 SFI
Automatic Transaxle

Drain and Refill ................................................................. 7.4 quarts (7.0 L)
Complete Overhaul ............................................................. 10 quarts (9.5 L)

_________________
'98 SC Riviera 268k miles 298 HP/370 TQ 0-60: 5.79s ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 4087 lb 20.1 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley AL104 plugs 180 t-stat FWI w/K&N 1.9:1 rockers OR pushrods LS6 valve springs SLP headers ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts MaxAir shocks Addco sway bars UMI bushings GM STB Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus SS lines Brembo slotted discs DHP tuned Aeroforce Hidden Hitch


'05 GTO 49k miles 0-60: 4.8s 16.9 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun
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PostSubject: Re: Write Up: Transmission Fluid & Filter Change   Fri May 21, 2010 5:20 pm

AH HA!
the FSM (for a 97!) shows 7.4qts for pan removal, 10qts for full overhaul, and 13.4qts for a dry system.

_________________
1996 with 244k miles, L324" FWI -> ported N* -> Ported Gen V w/3.0" Pulley, Stage 3 Phenolic I/C, ZZP FMHE, 1.84 RR, Headers and 3" pipe to mufflers, F-body brakes, and lowered on Eibachs.
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PostSubject: Re: Write Up: Transmission Fluid & Filter Change   Fri May 21, 2010 5:24 pm

Engine VIN Code #1 is an SC as Mr. Riv (Matthew) has published.
But if all he's going to do is add 1% of the total volume, how much of a difference is 10 qts or 13.4. Not enough to worry about.
Use the 13.4 for calculating the amount of additive.

I still highly recommend dropping the pan and filter though.


Last edited by Rickw on Fri May 21, 2010 9:15 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Write Up: Transmission Fluid & Filter Change   Fri May 21, 2010 5:44 pm

It's actually a hydraulic fluid additive, called HydraMaxx, a variant of a product initially known as NNL690, which was developed as an engine oil additive.

They changed the naming scheme of the product line, NNL690 was renamed EngineMaxx, NNL690G, the gear oil variant (I suspect 690G would be fantastic added to our Supercharger oil, but I dunno if I wanna be the guinea pig) was renamed GearMaxx, and this stuff, HydraMaxx, was developed as a hydraulic fluid additive. Even EngineMaxx has a 1% recommendation in automatic transmissions, though HydraMaxx should be somewhat better suited to the job.

It's part of the Power Up series of lubricants, produced and developed by the Maryn Group.

There is a lot of bad stuff out there promising a lot that they can't deliver. As such, I don't blame you if you don't trust the stuff, but I do.

I don't expect it to be a miracle cure, I said in my first post that I doubt it will fix the problem, but it might help it out a bit.

As for dropping the pan, replacing the filter and replacing some of the fluid, the transmission was "rebuilt" less than 1000Km ago. I very rarely drive, so while the rebuild was done over a year ago, I've done less than 650 miles in that year on it. The fluid is brand new, so unless the clowns that rebuilt it didn't even replace the filter, it should be good on that front.
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PostSubject: Re: Write Up: Transmission Fluid & Filter Change   Fri May 21, 2010 5:47 pm

maybe the lack of driving is the problem? 650 miles a year (i'm guessing no long trips) may not give the motor/trans enough time to fully warm up and "break in" the rebuilt parts. or there are parts that are gumming up due to the fluid never reaching full flow/temp.

_________________
1996 with 244k miles, L324" FWI -> ported N* -> Ported Gen V w/3.0" Pulley, Stage 3 Phenolic I/C, ZZP FMHE, 1.84 RR, Headers and 3" pipe to mufflers, F-body brakes, and lowered on Eibachs.
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