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T Riley
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Mufflers?   FAQ: Mufflers? - Page 2 EmptyWed Apr 11, 2007 4:14 pm

RhinoFLA wrote:
is there a noticable differerence between round and oval mufflers? or is it just for looks? these don't look too bad, and for the price, it's tempting. thoughts?

FAQ: Mufflers? - Page 2 642-14416
\

ok the OVAL mufflers are KINDA Z shaped on the inside so its more RESTRICTIVE the Round ones A>K>A> Glass packs are ----- straight through
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Mufflers?   FAQ: Mufflers? - Page 2 EmptyWed Apr 11, 2007 5:26 pm

any other thoughts on the magnaflows?
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Mufflers?   FAQ: Mufflers? - Page 2 EmptyWed Apr 11, 2007 8:08 pm

Like Travis said, but also the oval type (called "turbos") are a lot quieter than the straight through round type.

_________________
'98 SC Riviera • 281k miles • 298 HP/370 TQ • 0-60: 5.79s • ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 • 4087 lb • 20.1 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley • AL104 plugs • 180º t-stat • FWI w/K&N • 1.9:1 rockers • OR pushrods • LS6 valve springs • SLP headers • ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts • MaxAir shocks • Addco sway bars • UMI bushings • GM STB • Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s • F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus • SS lines • Brembo slotted discs • DHP tuned • Aeroforce • Hidden Hitch

^^^ SOLD ^^^ frown

'05 GTO • 85k miles • 0-60: 4.8s • 16.9 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun


'70 Olds Ninety-Eight Holiday Coupe • 116k miles • 455 Rocket V8
Because cool


'95 Celica • 152k miles • 0-60: yes
Because free
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Mufflers?   FAQ: Mufflers? - Page 2 EmptyWed Apr 11, 2007 8:41 pm

aaron so you think the same dimensions but oval would be decent? would I still get a good sound from them?
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Mufflers?   FAQ: Mufflers? - Page 2 EmptyWed Apr 11, 2007 9:16 pm

I think the turbos sound the best, but I'm not one who likes it loud. I'm keeping stock as long as I can get away with it.

_________________
'98 SC Riviera • 281k miles • 298 HP/370 TQ • 0-60: 5.79s • ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 • 4087 lb • 20.1 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley • AL104 plugs • 180º t-stat • FWI w/K&N • 1.9:1 rockers • OR pushrods • LS6 valve springs • SLP headers • ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts • MaxAir shocks • Addco sway bars • UMI bushings • GM STB • Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s • F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus • SS lines • Brembo slotted discs • DHP tuned • Aeroforce • Hidden Hitch

^^^ SOLD ^^^ frown

'05 GTO • 85k miles • 0-60: 4.8s • 16.9 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun


'70 Olds Ninety-Eight Holiday Coupe • 116k miles • 455 Rocket V8
Because cool


'95 Celica • 152k miles • 0-60: yes
Because free
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Mufflers?   FAQ: Mufflers? - Page 2 EmptyWed Apr 11, 2007 9:29 pm

i think it's been decided. 80 bucks each.



Flowmaster Super 44 Muffler In/Out 2.50''
Body Length 19''
Center In/Center out

[/img]http://www.jegs.com/images/photos/300/389/389-Super44.jpg[img]
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Mufflers?   FAQ: Mufflers? - Page 2 EmptyWed Apr 11, 2007 9:31 pm

FAQ: Mufflers? - Page 2 389-Super44
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Mufflers?   FAQ: Mufflers? - Page 2 EmptyWed Apr 11, 2007 9:56 pm

Here in NC you never really "have" to replace your exhaust, everything rusts from the top down!

But I am going to get these for my Black '95! cheers

FAQ: Mufflers? - Page 2 T815B
Thanks for the website, I've been looking for them for a while and couldn't find them.
I think the black chrome will look great on the Black Riv! thumbsup
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Mufflers?   FAQ: Mufflers? - Page 2 EmptyThu Apr 12, 2007 12:14 am

stay away from flowmasters. They are NOT the masters of flow. They are counted among the worse flowing mufflers out there.

Quote :
ok the OVAL mufflers are KINDA Z shaped on the
inside so its more RESTRICTIVE the Round ones A>K>A> Glass
packs are ----- straight through

This is not necessarily true. An oval case muffler will silence more than a small, round case muffler as they have more sound deadening material. The Z shape he is referring to is in turbo-style mufflers (turbo does not refer to an oval case), like dynomax superturbos. A round muffler is not necessarily a glasspack (cherrybombs are glasspacks).

Oval case mufflers with a straight through design have... a straight through design. Dynomax ultraflos and their cheaper (dollar-wise) copies the hooker maximum flows are more of a sound deadner than a true muffler. It's a perforated tube with insulation around it.

maximum flow
FAQ: Mufflers? - Page 2 Maximum%20flow%20graphic
aerochamber: slightly quieter, flows slightly less (albeit more than enough for our cars)
FAQ: Mufflers? - Page 2 MediumAeroChamber

so before spending 80$ per muffler on a less than optimal muffler, please take a few minutes to check out your other options (ebay often has some good deals. I've seen hooker maxflows at 29.99 ea). When dealing with modern mufflers in the performance range our cars have (not all out race cars) it's generally a question your taste for sound and material (stainless or aluminized). You can't go wrong, unless you get flowmaster. I would seriously buy a set of $14.75 summit turbos before flowmasters.
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Jason
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Mufflers?   FAQ: Mufflers? - Page 2 EmptyThu Apr 12, 2007 12:34 am

Exhaust comparo

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Muffler Flow Comparison Chart
Shown
below are competitive mufflers versus DynoMax Ultra-Flo SS and Race
Magnum Welded models. For Powertech Index cold-flow testing, the
pressure drop across the muffler is held at 20.3" H2O and the flow rate
(scfm) is recorded.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

MODEL
Flow Rate Muffler Inlet Size

@ 20.3" H2O

+ Edelbrock 5501 492 scfm 2.25"
$ Flowmaster 42440 483 scfm 2.25"
Race Magnum Welded 17216 711 scfm 2.25"

+ Edelbrock 5511 579 scfm 2.50"
$ Flowmaster 42540 352 scfm 2.50"
Ultra-Flo SS 17263 1133 scfm 2.50"
Race Magnum Welded 17218 1000 scfm 2.50"
# Borla 40600 836 scfm 2.50"

+ Edelbrock 5505 708 scfm 3.00"
$ Flowmaster 43040 392 scfm 3.00"
Ultra-Flo SS 17296 2200 scfm 3.00"
Race Magnum Welded 17220 2200 scfm 3.00"
# Borla 40450 1400 scfm 3.00"
# Borla 40575 1100 scfm 3.00"

@ Edelbrock 5535 562 scfm 3.50"
$ Flowmaster 435409 576 scfm 3.50"
Ultra-Flo SS 17268 2200 scfm 3.50"
Race Magnum Welded 17224 2200 scfm 3.50"
# Borla 40615 854 scfm 3.50"

@ Edelbrock 5537 1400 scfm 4.00"
* Flowmaster 54040-10 634 scfm 4.00"
Race Magnum Welded 17225 2600 scfm 4.00"
# Borla 40741 1450 scfm 4.00"

+ Edelbrock General Application Series

@ Edelbrock Victor Series Race
$ Flowmaster 40 Series ( 2 Chamber)
* Flowmaster Delta Force Race Series
# Borla XR-1 Racing Series (Round or Oval)

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Notice how the 2.25in dynomax OUTFLOWS the 4in flowmaster! They basicaclly get their signature sound by bottling up the exhaust with their chambered design.


Last edited by on Thu Apr 12, 2007 1:00 am; edited 3 times in total
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Mufflers?   FAQ: Mufflers? - Page 2 EmptyThu Apr 12, 2007 12:43 am

check outthis muffler comparo: http://www.exhaustsoundclips.com/cfm.pdf
I was having trouble with the .pdf so here it is.


Muffler flow in CFM

OEM..................................................................... ...........225
Gibson SuperFlow 788200..............................................311
TTS Bullet Cat Converter.................................................324
Flowmaster 40 series 42540..........................................352
Flowmaster 50 Series.....................................................362
Flowmaster 40 series 43040..........................................392
Dynomax Super Turbo....................................................410
Flowmaster 62631..........................................................435
Carsound Cat Converter.................................................436
FLP Cat Converter...........................................................440
Edelbrock Victor 5535......................................................562
Flowmaster 40 series 435409..........................................576
Edelbrock RPM series 5511..............................................579
Flowmaster Delta Force Racing 54040-10........................634
Edelbrock 304 series 5560...............................................640
Edelbrock Gen App 5505..................................................708
Dynomax Race Magnum Welded 17216...........................711
Borla XR-1 40600.............................................................836
Borla XR-1 40615.............................................................854
Dynomax UltraFlow SS 17263..........................................1000
Dynomax Race Magnum Welded 17218...........................1000
Borla XR-1 40575.............................................................1100
Dynomax UltraFlow..........................................................1133
Edelbrock Victor 5537......................................................1400
Borla XR-1 40450.............................................................1400
Borla XR-1 40741.............................................................1450
Dynomax UltraFlow SS 17296, 17268..............................2200
Dynomax Race Magnum Welded 17220, 17224...............2200
Dynomax Race Magnum Welded 17225...........................2600

The formula for required exhaust flow is: horsepower times 2.2.
So
if your car makes 400 hp, you will need a total of 880 cfm muffler
capacity for an unrestrictive exhaust system. So for dual exhaust, you
would need mufflers that flow 440 cfm.
For reference, a 2.5 inch diameter pipe flows ~500 cfm. Adding non-mandrel bends will lessen that amount


Last edited by on Thu Apr 12, 2007 1:00 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Mufflers?   FAQ: Mufflers? - Page 2 EmptyThu Apr 12, 2007 12:48 am


Results may vary from engine to engine and setup to setup, but is is a comparison using different mufflers

This test was performed by 5.0
Mustang & Super Fords Magazine, December 2002 issue (page 55) on a
'90 Mustang LX coupe with 370hp and 11 second potential. 66 pulls were
made for this comparison:
The results in HP order:

1.Flowtech Warlock (open) 374.2 hp/ 333.1 tq
2.Bassani Real Street 373.7 hp/ 333.8 tq
3.Hooker Maxflow 373.5 hp/ 333 tq
4.Borla XS 373.3 hp/ 332.6 tq
5.Magnaflow 372.8 / 332.5 tq
6.MAC 372.3 hp / 331.5 tq
7.Flowtech Afterburner 372.3 hp/ 330.1 tq
8.Hooker Aerochamber 372.1 hp/ 330.4 tq
9.Bassani 372 hp/ 333.5 tq
10.Spintech 371.6 hp/ 332.2 tq
11.Edelbrock Performer RPM 370.9 hp / 331.3 tq
12.Borla XR1 370 hp/ 334 tq
13.Flowtech Terminator 369.5 hp / 331.3 tq
14.Dynomax Ultra Flo 369.4 / 333.2 tq
15.Flowmaster 369.4 hp / 331.8 tq
16.Flowtech Warlock 366.3 hp / 325.3 tq
17.No muffs 365.2 hp / 330.1 tq


Sound Off in Quietest to Loudest (Decibels):
1.Borla XS, 80db at idle, 90db at 2,000 rpm, 110db at WOT.
2.Hooker Maxflow, 80db at idle, 90db at 2,000 rpm, 120db at WOT.
3.Magnaflow, 82db at idle, 91 at 2,000 rpm, 114db at WOT.
4.Flowmaster, 82db at idle, 93 at 2,000 rpm, 115db at WOT.
5.Flowtech Warlock, 83db at idle, 92 at 2,000 rpm, 112db at WOT.
6.Dynomax UltraFlo, 83db at idle, 94 at 2,000 rpm, 113db at WOT.
7.Borla XR1, 83db at idle, 96db at 2,000 rpm, 118db at WOT.
8.Bassani Street, 83db at idle, 96db at 2,000 rpm, 120db at WOT.
9.Edelbrock RPM, 84db at idle, 93db at 2,000 rpm, 118db at WOT.
10.Bassani Real Street, 84db at idle, 96db at 2,000 rpm, MAX. (120+db).
11.Flowtech Afterburner, 86db at idle, 94db at 2,000 rpm, 115db at WOT.
12.Flowtech Terminator, 86db at idle, 94db at 2,000 rpm, 119db at WOT.
13.Hooker Aerochamber, 87db at idle, 94db at 2,000 rpm, 114db at WOT.
14.SpinTech, 87db at idle, 97db at 2,000 rpm, 116db at WOT.
15.MAC, 87db at idle, 98db at 2,000 rpm, 119db at WOT.
16.No Muffler, 91db at idle, 103db at 2,000 rpm, MAX. (120+db).

-------------------------------

Note that the Maxflow is the quietest at idle & 2000 rpm but the loudest at wot and is among the best flowing in the test.
This was in 2002 though. Maybe some muffler designs have changed since then. All I can say is I love the sound of the max flows on my turbo regal.
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Mufflers?   FAQ: Mufflers? - Page 2 EmptyThu Apr 12, 2007 1:03 am

Take this last comparo FWIW. It is from the camaroz28forum but I could not find references. All the numbers seem artificially low (the test was done at 15" wc, so maybe that's why).

Muffler Flow Testing

All tests via an independent lab
All tests @ 15” wc

2 “ Straight Pipe 283 CFM
2 ¼ “ Straight Pipe 365 CFM
2 ½ “ Straight Pipe 521 CFM

2 ¼” Typical Bent tailpipe 268 CFM
2 ½” Typical Bent Tailpipe 417 CFM

2 ¼” Inlet/Outlet_ Glass Pack Tips- No Louvers- Smooth 274 CFM
2 ¼” Inlet/Outlet- Glass Pack Tips-Louvered 133 CFM
Same as above set for reverse flow 141 CFM
2 ¼” Cherry Bomb 239 CFM
2 ½” Cherry Bomb 294 CFM

2 ½” Inlet/Outlet Dynomax Super Turbo 278 CFM
2 ½” Inlet/Outlet Ultraflow Bullet 512 CFM
2 ½” Inlet/Outlet Gibson Superflow 267 CFM
2 ½” Inlet/Outlet Flowmaster ( 2 Chamber) 249 CFM
2 ½” Inlet Outlet Flowmaster ( 3 Chamber) 229 CFM
2 ¼” Inlet/Outlet Thrush CVX 260 CFM
2 ½” Inlet/Outlet Maremount Cherry Bomb 298 CFM
2 ½” Inlet/Outlet Hooker Aero Chamber 324 CFM
2 ½” Inlet/Outlet Hooker Max Flow 521 CFM
2 ½” Inlet/Outlet Borla Turbo 373 CFM
2 1/2" Inlet/Outlet Magnaflow 284 CFM

Standard OEM 2 ¼” Inlet/Outlet 138-152 CFM
Standard OEM 2 ½” Inlet/Outlet 161-197 CFM
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FAQ: Mufflers? - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Mufflers?   FAQ: Mufflers? - Page 2 EmptyThu Apr 12, 2007 8:51 am

Wow, thanks Jason. Lots of good info there. I never took the time to learn about mufflers, so this comes as a big help!

_________________
'98 SC Riviera • 281k miles • 298 HP/370 TQ • 0-60: 5.79s • ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 • 4087 lb • 20.1 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley • AL104 plugs • 180º t-stat • FWI w/K&N • 1.9:1 rockers • OR pushrods • LS6 valve springs • SLP headers • ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts • MaxAir shocks • Addco sway bars • UMI bushings • GM STB • Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s • F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus • SS lines • Brembo slotted discs • DHP tuned • Aeroforce • Hidden Hitch

^^^ SOLD ^^^ frown

'05 GTO • 85k miles • 0-60: 4.8s • 16.9 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun


'70 Olds Ninety-Eight Holiday Coupe • 116k miles • 455 Rocket V8
Because cool


'95 Celica • 152k miles • 0-60: yes
Because free
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Mufflers?   FAQ: Mufflers? - Page 2 EmptyThu Apr 12, 2007 3:41 pm

jason did some homework :> I didn't order them last night just because I wanted to take a look at my exhaust today, and take some measurements. I was thinking about going offset in, just how the oem muffler is, then run like 2.5 in. pipe from the muffler with a tip on the end.. but looking at everything you just posted, i'd rather go for the cheaper hooker max flows..
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Mufflers?   FAQ: Mufflers? - Page 2 EmptyThu Apr 12, 2007 4:08 pm

those are the ones I'd go for if I were in Florida where rust isn't an issue. Personally, I will be installing a set of magnaflows on the riviera because they were free. They are offset/offset so I'll have to jury-rig them smile
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Mufflers?   FAQ: Mufflers? - Page 2 EmptyThu Apr 12, 2007 4:11 pm

you think that'd work out though jason, offset in, center out, with a pipe on the end?
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Mufflers?   FAQ: Mufflers? - Page 2 EmptyThu Apr 12, 2007 4:14 pm

yes, if the pipe at the end isn't straight, buy rather curved like the stock setup. Of course that is if you want the tailpipes to come out straight in the back,
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Mufflers?   FAQ: Mufflers? - Page 2 EmptyThu Apr 12, 2007 10:38 pm

welp, I placed the order from jegs, I couldn't find any max flows on ebay that were the size I wanted.

FAQ: Mufflers? - Page 2 52021601

# Max Flow MufflersInlet: 3"
# Outlet: 3"
# Dimensions: 4-3/4"H x 10-1/4"W x 14"L

3 inches should roar.
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Mufflers?   FAQ: Mufflers? - Page 2 EmptyThu Apr 12, 2007 11:00 pm

if you bought 2x 3" mufflers, it will definately be loud a wot ! A single 3" maxflow has more flow potential than most of us will ever need.

please make a sound clip after install!
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Mufflers?   FAQ: Mufflers? - Page 2 EmptyThu Apr 12, 2007 11:10 pm

yeah man, i'll definitely post a sound clip :> i'm thinking i'll get them by mid next week or so, so i'll get on it then
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Mufflers?   FAQ: Mufflers? - Page 2 EmptyThu Apr 12, 2007 11:22 pm

I certainly hope you have a 3"dp and stay 3" all the way to the split to take advantage of the size of the mufflers. Expect your powerband to shift towards the upper RPMs.
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Mufflers?   FAQ: Mufflers? - Page 2 EmptyThu Apr 12, 2007 11:45 pm

no, i'm still running stock system.. I can't afford the dp and tubing right now, but that's definitely on my to get list after these go on.
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Mufflers?   FAQ: Mufflers? - Page 2 EmptyFri Apr 13, 2007 12:10 am

it may be cheaper for you to buy a 75$ 3"dp from clubgp than squandering money on two 2.25 to 3" reducers and a Y junction.
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Mufflers?   FAQ: Mufflers? - Page 2 EmptyFri Apr 13, 2007 12:15 am

mm you think? is that something I could do myself, or end up having to take it somewhere
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FAQ: Mufflers?
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