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1wickedninja
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PostSubject: Re: Subwoofers, Speakers & Amps   Wed Sep 17, 2008 10:27 am

agree that sony speakers suck my friend had two 12" sony xplods the red ones and within two months they were blown! i guess you get what you pay for. i personally like mtx i have two mtx 12" 5500 in the monte thinking about geting two single boxs and putting one in each of my cars. they sound realy nice for a lower watt sub!
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PostSubject: Re: Subwoofers, Speakers & Amps   Wed Sep 17, 2008 1:05 pm

What do you guys think about two 12" Kicker Comps in a sealed box? Quality sound and loud bass?
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PostSubject: Re: Subwoofers, Speakers & Amps   Wed Sep 17, 2008 1:59 pm

I think Stillwater knows subs. Comps are decent. Box will be large for two twelves, though. By spending more on a better quality single driver, you can have the same sound in a smaller space.

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PostSubject: Re: Subwoofers, Speakers & Amps   Wed Sep 17, 2008 2:20 pm

What single driver would you recommend that I could get and get a box for $250 or less?
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PostSubject: Re: Subwoofers, Speakers & Amps   Wed Sep 17, 2008 3:40 pm

IMO ... I'd hold off till you have another $150 and go with the JL 12".
One of the best quality subs, a great investment... It'll bump.
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PostSubject: Re: Subwoofers, Speakers & Amps   Wed Sep 17, 2008 4:32 pm

Shintsu wrote:
What single driver would you recommend that I could get and get a box for $250 or less?

JL Audio 8W7: Link + 500/1 amplifier = awesome.

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PostSubject: Re: Subwoofers, Speakers & Amps   Wed Sep 17, 2008 5:27 pm

I went to the sub shop and I found the subs I like. Two Memphis audio 12" woofers. These things were so damn loud!!! They're $95 a piece new and this is the bass I want. It is going to be expensive to build it all but I haven't thrown out the JLs yet. Any words on the Memphis brand?

Also AA, that is $220 for one woofer with no box or amp...Way more than I can spend.
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PostSubject: Re: Subwoofers, Speakers & Amps   Wed Sep 17, 2008 5:44 pm

I've heard good things about Memphis, but it's not a brand that has good following with the car audiophile crowd. For subs and bass amplification, if it gets loud and low, and performs reliably, that's all that matters. I would be careful using their midrange and treble drivers, though.

If you have the exact model #, would be interesting to see the specs. I can tell a lot about a subwoofer from its Theil/Small parameters.

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PostSubject: Re: Subwoofers, Speakers & Amps   Wed Sep 17, 2008 6:52 pm

Unfortunately, I have no model. Glancing at their website on the iphone here I can't really tell. It was different than the rest in that it had a giant M all the way across the cone (Some of them were smaller but this one was particularlly large.
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PostSubject: Re: Subwoofers, Speakers & Amps   Wed Sep 17, 2008 7:02 pm

Shintsu wrote:
I went to the sub shop

Subway or D'Angelo?
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PostSubject: Re: Subwoofers, Speakers & Amps   Wed Sep 17, 2008 10:42 pm

lol, the place is actually called L & S Audio. It's a local "mom and pop" type subwoofer shop. Some middle aged lady who looked on the old side came over and blasted that subwoofer loud for me. Way louder than I would play it for any length of time, although she was just playing some kind of oscillating tone with no vocals or anything.

The only other thing they had I was considering was a pair of used Audiobahn 12" woofers. They had nice thick rubber and instead of your average rectangle shape, they looked like this:


They were $129 and looked decent other than a minor scuff on one of the woofer's rubber (Read: Really minor, not even slightly torn just offcolored a tad). The lady showed me two MTX Jackhammers hooked up and wow, they sounded weak as hell. When she turned on the Memphis audios it was the biggest difference. SO damn loud! She also played the same 12" woofer in the narrow mount version which they were selling for $170 as opposed to the regular size one for $95 and the shallow one thumped just as hard as the big one. Amazing!

Most of these used setups they have up there are sealed systems, are those going to get as loud as I want? I'm still thinking the design like this is what I really want:


Btw, the Audiobahns looked something like this:


No idea what the backs looked like since they're mounted in the box though. Roughly similar to this but the rubber actually looked a tad thicker.
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PostSubject: Re: Subwoofers, Speakers & Amps   Wed Sep 17, 2008 11:04 pm

The box depends on the type of sound you want, how much power you have (watts) and how much space you want the enclosure to take up.

Sealed= flatest response, needs the most power, smallest box

Ported=boomier, needs less power than sealed but is 1.5x to 2x times bigger than Sealed

Bandpass=boomier than ported and in some cases a one note thumper, needs less power than sealed and about the same size as Ported.

Most speakers have box volumes for the type of box calculated by the manufacturer in their literature.
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PostSubject: Re: Subwoofers, Speakers & Amps   Wed Sep 17, 2008 11:37 pm

These Memphis audio subs looked just like this


Pretty easy to identify, most have a small logo at the bottom or a small one in the center - the whole cone of this thing was the giant M. This particular model is the 15-PR12S4 or 15-PR12D4 (Differences being one is single coil the other is dual - no idea which the one I heard up there was but they look the same). What do you think of these AA? From hearing them first hand, they were hella loud and killed the MTX Jackhammers badly.
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PostSubject: Re: Subwoofers, Speakers & Amps   Thu Sep 18, 2008 9:14 am

The fact that you say these Memphis subs "killed the Jackhammers badly" raises all kinds of red flags. Don't go back to that shop unless to complain. There is no way it was a fair comparison. Installed and powered properly, ONE of the jackhammers would have made the both Memphis subs sound nonexistent.

Like I said earlier, "put the crappiest woofer in the right enclosure, and it will sound better than the best woofer in the wrong enclosure." Perfect example. I went to the Memphis site. Those subs are 2nd to last in their line. They aren't even in the same class as the MTXs. 250 Watt, w/ 50 oz magnets... the Jackhammers are 6,000 Watt, w/ 900 oz magnets. This is like comparing a Chevy Cobalt to a Ferrari F430.

I don't like that how the Memphis website is pushing a lot of youth-themed imagery, and how they decorate their cones with big graphics. They don't even give real specs for their subs. I say thumbs down to this brand.

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3.4" pulley AL104 plugs 180 t-stat FWI w/K&N 1.9:1 rockers OR pushrods LS6 valve springs SLP headers ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts MaxAir shocks Addco sway bars UMI bushings GM STB Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus SS lines Brembo slotted discs DHP tuned Aeroforce Hidden Hitch

^^^ SOLD ^^^ frown

'05 GTO 85k miles 0-60: 4.8s 16.9 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun


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PostSubject: Re: Subwoofers, Speakers & Amps   Thu Sep 18, 2008 11:33 am

[quote="AA"]Subwoofers are some of the most unpredictably priced and most widely misunderstood products you can buy. The first rule is, anymore you can't compare a woofer by size alone. There are 8" subs that can play louder and better than some 12" or even 15" subs. There are 6.5" subs costing $200, 18" subs costing $150, and everything in between.

There is an old saying in audio circles that goes "put the crappiest woofer in the right enclosure, and it will sound better than the best woofer in the wrong enclosure." There is some truth in this statement. Enclosure design is actually more crucial in some ways than the sub itself. Using this logic, one can assume the prefabbed driver/enclosure combos, like Bazooka tubes, are an appealing option. At least you know you are getting the most out of the driver you buy.


lmao you sound EXACTLY like this guy who installs all of my friends sound systems lol
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PostSubject: Re: Subwoofers, Speakers & Amps   Thu Sep 18, 2008 12:26 pm

Hold up AA, think we might have some confusion here. I'm talking about THIS Jackhammer:


NOT this one:


The latter looks godly, however the one I saw looked pretty generic and average. They have all these subwoofers setup in identical boxes along the wall, one speaker with the cone facing out the other facing in so you can see both sides of it. No idea why MTX makes two speakers with the same name, that can lead for so much misconfusion when talking about them without pictures. Without a doubt, the Jackhammers I saw were pretty cheap (I think they were like $50-60 a piece or something).

With this clarification, does your opinion still stand?


Last edited by Shintsu on Thu Sep 18, 2008 12:54 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Subwoofers, Speakers & Amps   Thu Sep 18, 2008 12:47 pm

I was unaware there was a $60 MTX Jackhhammer. In that case, the Memphis and MTX should be about equal in performance. But will require you use big boxes and multiple drivers to get loud and sound good.

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PostSubject: Re: Subwoofers, Speakers & Amps   Thu Sep 18, 2008 12:53 pm

Listening to them in person, the Memphis was much bassier and louder than the MTX without a doubt. I think they have one amp hooked up through this little keypad and they just type in the subwoofer number to play them. They may have their own amp on each one though, if it is it's on the other side of them. The lady was saying the Memphis was a higher quality subwoofer than the MTX was (at least the cheaper ones I was looking at).
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PostSubject: Re: Subwoofers, Speakers & Amps   Thu Sep 18, 2008 1:44 pm

the differences you describe can be attributed to enclosure design. Bassier and louder sounds like the Memphis wants a larger box. It may be in the same size box as the mtx, but the driver's specs, not's diameter determine how much air it needs. Based on your description, the mtf sounds like the better sub.

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'98 SC Riviera 281k miles 298 HP/370 TQ 0-60: 5.79s ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 4087 lb 20.1 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley AL104 plugs 180 t-stat FWI w/K&N 1.9:1 rockers OR pushrods LS6 valve springs SLP headers ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts MaxAir shocks Addco sway bars UMI bushings GM STB Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus SS lines Brembo slotted discs DHP tuned Aeroforce Hidden Hitch

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PostSubject: Re: Subwoofers, Speakers & Amps   Thu Sep 18, 2008 5:40 pm

I dunno, enclosures are important I'm sure but the difference between these two was night and day. The rubber on the MTX wasn't very thick nor did it have a particularly large magnet. I don't care if it needs a larger box - unless it needs one as tall as an SUV or something it'll fit in the Riv's big trunk.

I mean, cheaper price, lower quality build construction, weaker bass - this all makes it sound like the MTX is for cheapskates just looking for a little boom boom. It sounded only a little bassier than the no-name (It's a Q Power) subwoofer we have in my mom's old bandpass subwoofer box and it's just a measly 10" with an old Kenwood amp. Now if this is two 12" woofers with a decent amp - what the hell? Btw, here's what my mom's woofer looks like:


Specs:
Dual Voice Coil
Large Foam Surround
Chrome Basket, Vented Magnet
10" - 50 oz Magnet - 800 Watts

That 10" is weak. Sounds fine in the car but all you hear outside is just a little buzzing. Weak as hell.

That Jackhammer you are talking about sounds like it's the shit - something that big would have to be! I'm not so sure about MTXs lower line though.

One thing I did find out, just about everyone I've talked to hates Rockford Fosgate. They say their amps have progressively gotten shittier and their subs are weak. Definately among my brands to avoid at all costs. At present, I don't even have enough to be considering any of these setups though.
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PostSubject: Re: Subwoofers, Speakers & Amps   Thu Sep 18, 2008 5:56 pm

When subs are similarly priced, and have like specs like the two you are looking at, the enclosure makes the absolute biggest difference. Also keep in mind, listening in the showroom and inside your car are vastly different things. You put the "loud" Memphis in your car, it could sound boomy and uneven. The "weak" MTX will probably sound very flat inside the car, and here's the best part: based on what you've said, the MTX will play deeper than the Memphis in-car, I guarantee it.

As far as build quality, I've used MTX subs in the past. I know they used to build their own speakers, probably still do. Memphis, a branding exercise at best, just slaps that "M" on a speaker manufactured somewhere overseas. That's what all the companies like Memphis do. The picture of the Memphis driver looks like a foam instead of rubber surround. I'd steer clear if that's the case.

Where the box volume comes into play is when you consider using 2 or more subs. It can fill up your trunk space fast. And if you cut corners and make the box too small, or compromise with a fre-fab box, the Qtc value goes up and the sub will have no deep end. The MTX is already comfortable in a smaller box, so you will have a lower Qtc and a flatter (deeper) bass with less space. This is why I have a single 8" in 1.75 cu ft, although it can go in as small as .30 cu ft.

Neither of these subs is good, imo. But I would pick the MTX.

I've heard RF amps have gone south, but their speakers, I don't know. They were never really good or really bad. I used to run three 8" RF Audiophile subs back in the day. Not the loudest, but they sounded good and took a beating.

_________________
'98 SC Riviera 281k miles 298 HP/370 TQ 0-60: 5.79s ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 4087 lb 20.1 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley AL104 plugs 180 t-stat FWI w/K&N 1.9:1 rockers OR pushrods LS6 valve springs SLP headers ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts MaxAir shocks Addco sway bars UMI bushings GM STB Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus SS lines Brembo slotted discs DHP tuned Aeroforce Hidden Hitch

^^^ SOLD ^^^ frown

'05 GTO 85k miles 0-60: 4.8s 16.9 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun


'70 Olds Ninety-Eight Holiday Coupe 116k miles 455 Rocket V8
Because cool


'95 Celica 152k miles 0-60: yes
Because free
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PostSubject: Re: Subwoofers, Speakers & Amps   Thu Sep 18, 2008 6:02 pm

I love how my mtxs sound never herd the jackhammer models the ones I have cost me $400 for the 2 12s and the custom mtx tunder box made for my subs. As for Rockford fostgate my mtxs are powered by a single rockford fosgate amp! I had it for about two years now and it still hits as hard as when I first got them!
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PostSubject: Re: Subwoofers, Speakers & Amps   Thu Sep 18, 2008 6:05 pm

AA wrote:
Neither of these subs is good, imo. But I would pick the MTX.
What would you recommend then (Other than that big JL Audio W7 or whichever it was)? Anything in the Alpine lineup?
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PostSubject: Re: Subwoofers, Speakers & Amps   Thu Sep 18, 2008 6:20 pm

I had 2 alpine type e I think the ones with the grey letters on the sub they sounded like shit compared to the infintys I traded them in for not only that the infintys were like $15 cheaper per sub! I also tried there type r the bigger dual voice coil ones they had alot of bass but they weren't clear at all! Kicker, and mtx were the clearest subs I herd so far but i i haven't herd jls yet but I herd they are top of the line.
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PostSubject: Re: Subwoofers, Speakers & Amps   Thu Sep 18, 2008 7:09 pm

lol, someone just offered me four Cuspid 12" woofers for a "bargain price" of $150. I may not know all there is to know about car subs but I know shitty crap brands when I hear them.

Amazing though, I've always heard Alpine was really high end. I know they make great head units but haven't heard much about their subs. I did some more looking and am hearing some people saying MTX's low end stuff is not very good at all. So far the only brand I haven't heard much negative about is JL Audio.

Dammit that guy with the JL audios is looking even better now. If only I had more money!
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