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 FAQ: Power Window Problems

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riv_problems96
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Power Window Problems   Wed Aug 05, 2009 1:13 am

so this morning and all day today the window has been fine like nothing ever happened.... could it be going out slowly or would my problem be electrical you think?
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Rickw
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Power Window Problems   Wed Aug 05, 2009 8:53 am

I would say the window switch is going bad based on your experience so far.
If you plan on having your mechanic fix it i would pre-purchase a new switch. It will be cheaper for you in the end to do it this way instead of paying him the labor to try and disassemble your current switch and try to clean it up.
Also, print out the procedure for removing the door panel ahead of time for him, this will also save you time and money and prevent the plastic pieces of the panel from being broken.
Our door panels can be tricky for someone that may not have removed one in the past.
The P/N for the switch is available in the write up section as well as the procedure for removing the door panel.
The switch can be purchased new from www.monsterpartsonline.com and may take about a week to get to you.
Good Luck.
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AA
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Power Window Problems   Wed Aug 05, 2009 9:29 am

JacktheR wrote:
it wouldn't hurt to take the switch apart and clean the contacts. Taking the switch apart is a PITA.
LOL, damned if you do or don't.

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playa
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Power Window Problems   Tue Aug 11, 2009 5:58 pm

So now I have a question (not to piggy back on someone else's thread). So mine started acting up again. I took apart the window switch (using the write-up which was extremely helpful and now I can do it in about 3 min tops).

Anyway, So here are the 3 components that it could be: Window Switch (WS), Control Module (CM), and Window Motor (WM). When I engage the switch, I hear the relay in the module click which suggests to me that the switch is making contact, the module is working but that the motor might be dead.

BTW, this is driver side. Ebay has the window motor available for $45 + free shipping which beats the rest of the other parts and their prices so part of me hopes that that the issue (plus it looks pretty easy to replace).

WS-->CM-->WM or CM-->WS-->WM Which path does the power go to get to the Window motor?
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Power Window Problems   Tue Aug 11, 2009 8:09 pm

playa wrote:
So now I have a question (not to piggy back on someone else's thread). So mine started acting up again. I took apart the window switch (using the write-up which was extremely helpful and now I can do it in about 3 min tops).

Anyway, So here are the 3 components that it could be: Window Switch (WS), Control Module (CM), and Window Motor (WM). When I engage the switch, I hear the relay in the module click which suggests to me that the switch is making contact, the module is working but that the motor might be dead.

BTW, this is driver side. Ebay has the window motor available for $45 + free shipping which beats the rest of the other parts and their prices so part of me hopes that that the issue (plus it looks pretty easy to replace).

WS-->CM-->WM or CM-->WS-->WM Which path does the power go to get to the Window motor?

...does not matter. IF relay is clicking, motor is dead. You may want to get a motor locally (NAPA) to avoid the Ebay motor arriving DOA, and the price probably won't be that much different. Reason for the low price - this motor is used in a LOT of GM cars. Rockauto.com shows them $36.99 and *lower* in price. Consider getting the Cardone A-1 remanufactured unit.

dealer motor is actually best for this application, to match the speed of the other original one. Even so in a couple weeks you won't notice the speed difference anyway.

Albertj
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Rickw
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Power Window Problems   Tue Aug 11, 2009 8:13 pm

playa wrote:
WS-->CM-->WM or CM-->WS-->WM Which path does the power go to get to the Window motor?
I believe it depends on whether you are commanding the motor to turn clockwise or counterclockwise, i.e., Window Up or Down.
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3.8 Riviera
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PostSubject: passenger window   Sat Apr 24, 2010 12:35 pm

well after reading all of the forums about the passenger window not working, i've come to realize that the motor is the culprit.
-i have taken off the switch and attempted to clean it and it still doesn't work
- the drivers window works fine but both switches on the drivers and passenger side don't allow the passenger window to roll down.
- the unlock/lock switch works fine.

any suggestions?

it's a 1997 riviera; supercharged.
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deekster_caddy
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Power Window Problems   Mon Apr 26, 2010 11:49 am

Take the connector off the motor and see if you have voltage there when pushing the switch. If you do, the motor is bad. If not, a wire or switch is bad.
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playa
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Power Window Problems   Mon Apr 26, 2010 12:32 pm

If it is the motor, it's takes about 5 minutes to pull the panel, 3 minutes to pull the motor, and the same in reverse. Figure 20 minutes, $35 for the new motor, and a beer and you'll be set. I have a new pass. motor that was sent ot me by accident (my driver side went out). I kept it just in case but if you're want it, just pay what I paid.
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albertj
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Power Window Problems   Mon Apr 26, 2010 4:17 pm

...my passenger window motor quit a couple years ago. I was told by a dealer mechanic that problem with the OE motors is that on many of them, the magnets are glued in place and after +/- 10 years the glue lets go. IIRC the older (think 1970's) motors had their magnets riveted in place.

Anyway... if you don't buy Mark's motor, just get a rebuilt Cardone from rockauto.com.

Be aware that the Riv motors fit many of the other GM cars and vice versa, but the Riv window motors spin faster. An OE motor with the right part number, or a rebuilt one, will be the "right" speed. To most people the speed difference makes no difference.

Albertj
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florence_x
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PostSubject: Electrical Issues?   Mon May 10, 2010 9:09 am

A couple of months ago, my car had some battery issues from not being used for a while. That problem has been solved, and my car runs fine now.

However, the other day I was driving with the windows down, and when I parked and tried to put them back up, they wouldn't go up all the way. They'd go down, but then not up at all. I managed to get them up by turning the car on and off a few times, but this hasn't really happened before.

I'm not sure if I have a faulty sensor or something either - my low coolant light is constantly on though it's full. Maybe I just need to change the coolant out?

I'm taking her in for a tune-up and inspection this weekend. Any ideas what may be going on here?

I'm terrified of losing this car - she has approx. 172k miles on her and I literally want to keep this car -forever-. Family members have been telling me not to spend too much on her given the amount of miles she has, but I'm ignoring that because I'll do what I have to in order to keep her going well. I'm hoping it's nothing too serious because I'm not exactly rollin' in dough at the moment.

Thanks in advance for all your help.
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albertj
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Power Window Problems   Mon May 10, 2010 9:31 am

When this happened on my RIv it was just the passenger side.

What happens is that the OE window motors are permanent magnet motors and the magnets are - get this - glued in place. The glue lets go, it's not whether but when - and the magnets collaps onto the armature and pretty much stop it from turning. Sometimes you can get it turning a little by messing with the windows but that's no fix. That is, if one magnet has let go the other one may not consistently prevent the armature from turning.

Given the car's age and engineering it does not surprise me that the window motors both quit about the same time. That's consistency. I'd use a voltmeter to check to be sure there were no other faults - but really, my 'money' so to speak is on the window motors.

It's a DIY, not-too-pricey fix. There's a good write up about it on the site now.

Albertj
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florence_x
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Power Window Problems   Mon May 10, 2010 9:36 am

Awesome, definitely good to know. Thanks for your help.

That's funny that they are glued into place. Given that information, I'm almost surprised they've held on as long as they have now.
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albertj
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Power Window Problems   Mon May 10, 2010 11:32 am

My guess - and this is only a guess - is that the aluminum motor cans oxidize (they are aluminum) underneath the glue. As the can ages more aluminum oxide would form at the interface between glue, can and the air. Motor heats/cools in teh door from use and weather. So I bet what's happening is that over time the glue progressively lets go of the can starting at the edges of the magnet, vibrations and thermal cycleing make the letting go progress, and when it has let go far enough the magnets pop off the can and clamp onto the armature (to rotor) in the motor. AGAIN, this is only a guess on my part.

The assembly, however, probably passed whatever life testing the engineers devised, and so since it's probably ch$aper they use the glue instead of rivets or cutting/bending tabs in the motor cans or a metal or plastic insert that would of held the suckers in place. And I understand that once upon a time the motor magnets *were* riveted in place.

Oh, well.

Albertj
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deekster_caddy
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Power Window Problems   Mon May 10, 2010 12:31 pm

What is the battery voltage while the engine is running, and while you are trying to close the windows? Asking to check with a voltmeter on the battery posts themselves, not under the hood.
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florence_x
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Power Window Problems   Mon May 10, 2010 12:53 pm

I'll have to look into that when I get home - I'm at my office now.

Worse comes to worst, I can always have my mechanic check it out Saturday when I go in for a tune-up & inspection, I guess, if the voltmeter doesn't tell me anything this week.
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Power Window Problems   Mon May 10, 2010 10:04 pm

florence_x wrote:
I'm terrified of losing this car - she has approx. 172k miles on her and I literally want to keep this car -forever-. Family members have been telling me not to spend too much on her given the amount of miles she has, but I'm ignoring that because I'll do what I have to in order to keep her going well.

I like that attitude Flo! rock
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robotennis61
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Power Window Problems   Mon May 10, 2010 10:15 pm

ata girl! don't let the naysayers nay say
a well maintained riv can go 200 odo,before it needs attention. a new motor might breath new life in the old girl ...my plan somtime in the future
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AA
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Power Window Problems   Tue May 11, 2010 2:02 pm

Quote :
However, the other day I was driving with the windows down, and when I parked and tried to put them back up, they wouldn't go up all the way. They'd go down, but then not up at all. I managed to get them up by turning the car on and off a few times, but this hasn't really happened before.
Does the window motor make any noise when you try to roll up? Or is there no response. Something that's happened to me twice with this car, the switch connection inside the driver door has become disconnected (I assume from repetitive door closing). When this happens, both windows will stop working at exactly the same time, since the passenger side is controlled by the driver switch. No sure if this is your problem, but may want to check the switch first when you take the door apart. It's obviously an easy fix.

_________________
'98 SC Riviera 268k miles 298 HP/370 TQ 0-60: 5.79s ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 4087 lb 20.1 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley AL104 plugs 180 t-stat FWI w/K&N 1.9:1 rockers OR pushrods LS6 valve springs SLP headers ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts MaxAir shocks Addco sway bars UMI bushings GM STB Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus SS lines Brembo slotted discs DHP tuned Aeroforce Hidden Hitch


'05 GTO 49k miles 0-60: 4.8s 16.9 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun
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Rickw
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Power Window Problems   Tue May 11, 2010 2:42 pm

This same thing happened to me, Different car, after a flash flood brought water up to a point half way up the door briefly. subsided after about a half hour, but after retriving the car and drying it out I had window motor problems until I replaced the motors.
I agree with Aaron about checking the drivers door switch if they both happen to stop working correctly at the same time.
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Power Window Problems   Tue May 11, 2010 4:02 pm

AA wrote:

Does the window motor make any noise when you try to roll up? Or is there no response. Something that's happened to me twice with this car, the switch connection inside the driver door has become disconnected (I assume from repetitive door closing). When this happens, both windows will stop working at exactly the same time, since the passenger side is controlled by the driver switch. No sure if this is your problem, but may want to check the switch first when you take the door apart. It's obviously an easy fix.

No, it wasn't making any noise when rolling up and it hasn't happened since. There was just no response.

I thought what may have happened was that my boyfriend was trying to put the passenger window up at the same time I was, so the message got confused because we noticed it at first on the passenger side. Then the driver side went as well.

They would go down, but not up. The driver side would go up, but only partially, then not at all. Then they went down all the way, I turned the car off and back on, and then both went up with no issue.
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AA
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Power Window Problems   Tue May 11, 2010 4:10 pm

If it gets any worse, go inside the drivers side door and check the switch. Mine started behaving erratically, then finally went out when the switch became disconnected.

If your problem gets better on its own, it's probably not the switch coming loose. Must be some other issue causing it to malfunction.

_________________
'98 SC Riviera 268k miles 298 HP/370 TQ 0-60: 5.79s ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 4087 lb 20.1 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley AL104 plugs 180 t-stat FWI w/K&N 1.9:1 rockers OR pushrods LS6 valve springs SLP headers ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts MaxAir shocks Addco sway bars UMI bushings GM STB Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus SS lines Brembo slotted discs DHP tuned Aeroforce Hidden Hitch


'05 GTO 49k miles 0-60: 4.8s 16.9 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun
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florence_x
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Power Window Problems   Wed May 12, 2010 8:18 am

Thanks for the help, Aaron.

It hasn't acted up since then - maybe it was just a fluke. But I'm keeping an eye on it.
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PostSubject: Passenger window wont roll up with passenger switch 95   Thu Sep 30, 2010 11:16 am

Anyone ever seen this issue? The passenger window will roll down with the passenger controls, it just wont roll up. It rolls up and down perfectly fine with the drivers controls. I am suspecting the passenger controls might be bad.....wasnt sure if it was some "feature" I was not aware of.....my guess is its not. Anyone have this happen?
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Power Window Problems   Thu Sep 30, 2010 11:21 am

Your suspecting is right.
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